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Heiwashin
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Verizon capping my data prematurely

Sat Jan 21, 2017 8:08 pm

This might be long so the tdlr is that verizon is forcibly putting me into safety mode before i'm out of data and due to the technical nature and backend depth of the problem i doubt their support has the ability to ever resolve it. So here's what i've gathered about the problem.

A short time after the release of popdata, maybe even that month, i had an event where even though i had about 1gb of data left listed on my account according to the verizon app i was forced into safety mode. Safety mode is verizons new way to allow users to avoid overage charges. It limits my transfer limit to 128k which in my speed tests usually ends up being about .04-.06 mb a sec down.

 It did not say i was in safety mode in the app however, so to confirm my suspicion i bought an extra gig of data for 15$. Seconds after buying it my speed returned to 16 mb sec down. This month i'm showing 5.8 gigabytes of data left and i've been capped again and put into safety mode. To test it this time, i bought a popdata. Before popdata purchase, .04 mb transfer, during 14mb, after .04. I also ended up buying extra data for reasons listed below.

This time i contacted support staff.After all my bill is about 250$ a month, enough that i would like proper service, and it's also my only access to internet at all. I was able to confirm with them that i had over 5gb of data left. I then fully explained my understanding of the problem, including my testing efforts, after which i was asked to try turning it on and then off again. Needless to say the conversation produced as much fruit as a pork factory. In the end i asked to at least receive a data credit so i could use the services i'm intended to be provided. I'm sure that it was no fault of the support staff, who seemed genuinely helpful and even accepting of my troubleshooting skill, but i was denied.

The fact that even verizon sees that my data is still available but i'm still being capped gives a good bit away. First, i tried turning safety mode off which didn't work. I use a good bit of pop data, my sessions vary from almost no transfer to 10 gigs in one hour. I buy up to 20 of these a month. Since it still shows that my data should be available, i can only assume that the system is counting some of my popdata usage which is being accounted for separately and invisibly to me towards my limit, and then forcibly capping me with no notice. It seems to even ignore my safety mode selection which shouldn't be the case. I can't find any evidence that other people are having this problem, but i also wouldn't be surprised if i was in the top percentile of popdata users since it's my primary source of bulk downloads.

I don't know what to do about this problem. From what i can tell it's uncommon to say the least. I asked every support staff i talked to if they've ever seen this before and they haven't. Support will just keep bouncing something like this off while shrugging their shoulders, and without a large volume of people reporting this problem i doubt verizon will ever take an interest in fixing it.
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DragonDaddyBear
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Re: Verizon capping my data prematurely

Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:09 pm

Can you leave Verizon? Some carriers will buy out your contact, or at least three was a promotion to do that.
 
Heiwashin
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Re: Verizon capping my data prematurely

Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:11 pm

I could but i need maximum reliability from my carrier. The only one that can compete is at&t and i think they're still pretty far behind verizon.
Looking for Knowledge wrote:
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DancinJack
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Re: Verizon capping my data prematurely

Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:43 pm

I suggest you talk to them about some "this is my business" deal. Maybe they will work with you on a bigger data bucket. I don't know how much data you use, but carriers in the US just aren't going to let you use data like that anymore and get away with it.

But really, and I know this sucks and your job kinda makes it hard, but you should look for an alternative or additional source of internet. Verizon just won't let you gobble down data like that anymore. It's just not gonna happen and be smooth or cheap.
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Heiwashin
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Re: Verizon capping my data prematurely

Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:50 pm

Jack look into pop data. They don't really care what you do when it's active. That's the majority of my data usage, and in fact it's still unlimited when i'm using it even though i'm in safety mode. I don't think this is intended behavior at all. Especially since verizon support is not aware of why it's happening.
Looking for Knowledge wrote:
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DancinJack
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Re: Verizon capping my data prematurely

Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:58 pm

I know what it is. And they DO care. Believe me, they care. Or else everyone would just have unlimited data, but they require you to pay three bucks for sixty minutes of unlimited data. I still suggest talking to them about setting your line up as a business line or something, because clearly what's happening now isn't necessarily working.
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Redocbew
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Re: Verizon capping my data prematurely

Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:24 pm

Has your phone done any OTA updates recently? Something is wiggy there for sure. Either it's not calculating your usage correctly, or it's getting confused about whether pop data should be "available" and switching you into saftey mode when it shouldn't.
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Heiwashin
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Re: Verizon capping my data prematurely

Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:25 pm

DancinJack wrote:
I know what it is.  And they DO care.  Believe me, they care.  Or else everyone would just have unlimited data, but they require you to pay three bucks for sixty minutes of unlimited data.  I still suggest talking to them about setting your line up as a business line or something, because clearly what's happening now isn't necessarily working.

I'm not sure that you understand the problem. The problem isn't the size of my data bucket, it's that i'm unable to use what i currently pay for, which is 28 gb a month. I would explain more but then i'd just be repeating the original post.
Looking for Knowledge wrote:
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Waco
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Re: Verizon capping my data prematurely

Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:23 am

So the gist of it is that you're getting essentially cut off at 82% of the data you're paying for...and support won't do anything. That's insane!

I'd keep asking to go up in support in the hopes of getting someone who isn't clueless. :(
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DancinJack
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Re: Verizon capping my data prematurely

Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:56 am

I completely understand the issue. I'm saying that the way you are using their service isn't something that they intended, and probably don't like, and I'm not surprised there are issues. I haven't said anything about your data being slowed before cap because there is quite literally no one on this forum, unless they work for Verizon and can check it out, that could do anything about it. Virtually your only option is to address it with Verizon again until something gets changed.
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Heiwashin
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Re: Verizon capping my data prematurely

Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:59 am

Redocbew wrote:
Has your phone done any OTA updates recently?  Something is wiggy there for sure.  Either it's not calculating your usage correctly, or it's getting confused about whether pop data should be "available" and switching you into saftey mode when it shouldn't.

It's not a phone issue because verizon support sees the data as available on my account as well.
Waco wrote:
So the gist of it is that you're getting essentially cut off at 82% of the data you're paying for...and support won't do anything.  That's insane!

I'd keep asking to go up in support in the hopes of getting someone who isn't clueless. :(

Yea it's a huge bummer man. I understand in a way because i don't think any company equips it's support to deal with problems this deep. I think my only chance would be to get 2 minutes with a member on the team that manages that system, but that's a laughable concept.
I see what you're saying jack but the way i'm using it is exactly as intended. The reason it's different from the norm is that popdata is exclusively available during offpeak times, so they can get away with allowing it. In that way it's not like normal over data usage. Think back to the days when aol was unmetered at night.
Looking for Knowledge wrote:
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Re: Verizon capping my data prematurely

Sun Jan 22, 2017 10:31 am

Maybe you're buying bandwidth in binary GB, but they are using decimal GB in the calculation that triggers the cap?
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Heiwashin
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Re: Verizon capping my data prematurely

Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:14 am

Adding to the mystery my new month started and it shows me having one GB of carryover data. What the heck. That's almost random. It's should have either been 5.8 or around 100 megabytes. What the heck is going on at Verizon
Looking for Knowledge wrote:
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Captain Ned
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Re: Verizon capping my data prematurely

Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:17 pm

I wonder if being all over the road like you are might have something to do with it?
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TheEmrys
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Re: Verizon capping my data prematurely

Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:35 pm

Next time you talk to them, see if there is a Tier Two Technical Escalations group.
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ludi
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Re: Verizon capping my data prematurely

Mon Jan 23, 2017 1:45 pm

Are you on a month-to-month prepaid account?  We have a conventional contract and in the one month where we ran over our data (due to my business travels), we simply got a text notification that the extra $15 had been applied to our bill and the usual link of where to go for changing the plan options.  I don't recall seeing any throttling, even though in a few previous months we came within 300MB of the pool total.

(We recently got a courtesy notification that a better plan might be available for our usage profile.  I looked, and it turned out they had restructured the rates.  On our new plan we have a higher base charge but a lower per-line charge, with twice as much data and full data rollover, for $8 LESS per month than what we were paying.  The only thing we lost was a whole bunch of cloud storage we had never bothered to set up anyway.  So you might look and see if there's a better plan out there.)
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Heiwashin
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Re: Verizon capping my data prematurely

Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:37 pm

If you get the new app and the appropriate account upgrade to the newest price rates and plan then you can opt in for "safety mode". It's effectively unlimited internet at 128k if you reach your limit. This actually isn't bad for simple stuff ilke techreport browsing or other simple sites that aren't ad heavy. It doesn't work so well for me though when i need to get a satellite view of an area before entering or want to use my phone for youtube. But either way i like it active because if something happens and a steam game updates, or something downloads that i'm unaware of and it burns my entire data, at least it doesn't cost me extra without me approving it first. I've actually had this happen on one occasion already. Some games really like their 5-10gb updates.

And just to be clear again, this isn't a problem with my selected plan. It's a problem with the plan not being properly provided to me.
Looking for Knowledge wrote:
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Captain Ned
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Re: Verizon capping my data prematurely

Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:57 pm

Heiwashin wrote:
And just to be clear again, this isn't a problem with my selected plan. It's a problem with the plan not being properly provided to me.

I grok that; I'm just trying to figure out if your geographical usage pattern is confusing their systems. One would think that VZW would have a handle on it, but since the Big 2 got where they are from Borging local outfits, who knows what's happening on the gritty backend?

If you can ever contact the supposed "Level 2 Support", this would be the first question to ask.
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Kougar
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Re: Verizon capping my data prematurely

Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:21 am

Captain Ned wrote:
Heiwashin wrote:
And just to be clear again, this isn't a problem with my selected plan. It's a problem with the plan not being properly provided to me.

I grok that; I'm just trying to figure out if your geographical usage pattern is confusing their systems.  One would think that VZW would have a handle on it, but since the Big 2 got where they are from Borging local outfits, who knows what's happening on the gritty backend?

If you can ever contact the supposed "Level 2 Support", this would be the first question to ask.

Yeah, you need to escalate this to someone that understands the hardware infrastructure and isn't reading off a flowchart. If they stonewall you I'd just threaten to leave for a different carrier, because for $250 you are paying a lot for their service and you should be getting good support.
 
Heiwashin
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Re: Verizon capping my data prematurely

Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:49 pm

I was told by tier one that the only way they'd escalate me is if I call from a separate device, which isn't something I can easily do. They aren't making it easy for me.
Looking for Knowledge wrote:
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Re: Verizon capping my data prematurely

Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:55 pm

Heiwashin wrote:
I was told by tier one that the only way they'd escalate me is if I call from a separate device, which isn't something I can easily do. They aren't making it easy for me.

Buy yourself some SkypeOut credits and call on a laptop from somewhere that has free WiFi?
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Heiwashin
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Re: Verizon capping my data prematurely

Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:59 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Heiwashin wrote:
I was told by tier one that the only way they'd escalate me is if I call from a separate device, which isn't something I can easily do. They aren't making it easy for me.

Buy yourself some SkypeOut credits and call on a laptop from somewhere that has free WiFi?

That's a good idea. I could do that, my last thought before calling again is that since I'm in a new month im not sure they'll do anything at all. My guess is I'll have to wait until the problem occurs again, but at least I can give tier 2 a shot next time.
Looking for Knowledge wrote:
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Vhalidictes
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Re: Verizon capping my data prematurely

Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:12 pm

Since you need to use Verizon service, I'd check out the list of MVNOs and pick the one that has a good data plan for your use case, if there is one.

It's clear from reading the thread that Verizon support can't help you even though they seem to want to, your only options are to:
1) Continue to put up with it
2) Find/escalate to another support queue that can actually see into the Safety Mode system.
3) Sign up for an MNVO that uses Verizon backhaul.

EDIT: I poked around a bit - looks like most of the Verizon MNVOs have a hard 4G limit of 10GB per phone, although some services allow for family plans. Which is weird, the cost isn't that high, they simply don't (can't?) offer anything better. This might have something to do with Verizon service itself... which is yet another sign that you should switch providers.
 
DancinJack
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Re: Verizon capping my data prematurely

Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:37 pm

Yeah, I doubt that's even close to an option for him. MVNO's almost always have less coverage than the big boys they're piggybacking off of. Which, as I understand it, is the main reason he's even on Verizon in the first place.
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Vhalidictes
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Re: Verizon capping my data prematurely

Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:55 pm

DancinJack wrote:
Yeah, I doubt that's even close to an option for him.  MVNO's almost always have less coverage than the big boys they're piggybacking off of.  Which, as I understand it, is the main reason he's even on Verizon in the first place.

I'm aware of that... not that it makes any sense, since they're literally using Verizon service they should have identical coverage maps (excluding areas where they don't operate but VZ does).
 
Kougar
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Re: Verizon capping my data prematurely

Tue Jan 24, 2017 3:38 pm

Vhalidictes wrote:
DancinJack wrote:
Yeah, I doubt that's even close to an option for him.  MVNO's almost always have less coverage than the big boys they're piggybacking off of.  Which, as I understand it, is the main reason he's even on Verizon in the first place.

I'm aware of that... not that it makes any sense, since they're literally using Verizon service they should have identical coverage maps (excluding areas where they don't operate but VZ does).

You'd think so, but the entire coverage thing is more complicated than most people realize. The last time I flew into Omaha, NE airport my basic Tmobile phone worked for 5 minutes, then switched to "no coverage" despite a good signal. The same thing happened again when driving onto a military base. It's also happened at my grandfather's place in the Missouri Ozarks region. 

For the Ozarks parks it is due to Tmobile choosing to not buy into those specific towers. For the others I assume it was the same situation, as my phone had a good signal from AT&T regardless. I could even restart the phone and would have a short window from when I could make calls from within the Omaha airport, soon as the call ended the phone would go right back into no net coverage mode.
 
Heiwashin
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Re: Verizon capping my data prematurely

Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:40 pm

New information in verizons problems with data cap control. This month i similarly was place into safety mode early, exactly 1 gb early. However, after using a popdata session, i was able to use the remaining data. It's like a high schooler wrote this stuff....
Looking for Knowledge wrote:
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Re: Verizon capping my data prematurely

Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:30 pm

Heiwashin wrote:
New information in verizons problems with data cap control. This month i similarly was place into safety mode early, exactly 1 gb early. However, after using a popdata session, i was able to use the remaining data. It's like a high schooler wrote this stuff....

After working in the tech industry for more than 3 decades, I've concluded that a LOT of production code is terrifyingly bad. In many cases, saying that it is like a high schooler wrote it would be an insult to high school CS students.
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Aether
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Re: Verizon capping my data prematurely

Sat Feb 11, 2017 5:11 pm

It sounds like Verizon may have two systems tracking data use, and the one that reports to the Verizon app is calculating differently than the one that decides when to start throttling your data. If this supposition is true, the fact that you say that this started when Popdata went live makes me wonder if part of Verizon's system was updated incorrectly with the Popdata code update.
 
Heiwashin
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Re: Verizon capping my data prematurely

Sat Feb 11, 2017 6:41 pm

Aether wrote:
It sounds like Verizon may have two systems tracking data use, and the one that reports to the Verizon app is calculating differently than the one that decides when to start throttling your data. If this supposition is true, the fact that you say that this started when Popdata went live makes me wonder if part of Verizon's system was updated incorrectly with the Popdata code update.

That's pretty much been my thought to a degree. My suspicion was that the code handling the throttling was including some popdata sessions for some reason. But since it cleared up after the usage of a session this time, but never before, i'm back at square one.
Looking for Knowledge wrote:
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