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synthtel2
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Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:16 pm

A friend of mine is looking for a laptop with a bit more graphics power than Intel GT2, but is on a very tight budget, as in every twenty counts. Audio that doesn't blatantly suck would also be nice, but it can be a cheapo piece of junk in pretty much every other way. I'm envisioning this as either something ex-corporate with GDDR5-based Cape Verde / GK107 or some old DTR with a more powerful (for the time) GPU that's cheap because the old tech is just too power-hungry, but I really don't know the used laptop market well enough for this. What would y'all consider a normal price for something that fits that description, and what specific models would you be looking at?
 
NoOne ButMe
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Re: Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Thu Apr 27, 2017 8:29 pm

Need max budget. Than can work down from what meets that.

I have been on "not one cent over" for $200 budget, and Same for $550 budget.

Also what is usage case, so can know if something is fast enough :)
 
DPete27
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Re: Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:13 pm

GT2 from what product family (since you're talking about used). Kaby Lake GT2 is a heckuva lot faster than Sandy Bridge GT2. Like >3x more GFLOPS.
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synthtel2
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Re: Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:16 pm

This isn't a "not one cent over" situation. Money is tight, but price is probably more flexible than hardware spec. If it's too much, that just means it'll be something to save up for.

The current machine is a C2D/4500MHD, and it works basically alright for everything except gaming. He'd like to be able to do some light gaming, and considering what he wants to play, I think 4GB RAM and basically any typical Sandy or later laptop CPU will be fine, but it would take the latest and greatest of GT2s. I think the biggest idea here is to get a solid all-around margin with which to make any game also released on XB360/PS3 playable (if at low settings/resolutions/framerates). Considering the sometimes very large differences between console and PC game variants towards the end of that cycle and general hyperoptimization for consoles (commonly at expense of PC performance), +50% ALU and BW over those consoles doesn't really feel like enough.
 
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Re: Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:22 pm

Intel HD 620+ is Kaby Lake, and Intel HD 520+ is Skylake... Ive played with HD 530 on a laptop(i7-6820HQ) and it was able to do fine with older games. It was definitely not the utter useless junk of a few generations ago.

But there is a world of difference between a cheap $500 IGP based laptop and a $700-$800 laptop with a GTX 1050/ti.

How about MSI GL62M 7RE-407 15.6" Performance Gaming Laptop Intel Core i5-7300HQ GTX 1050Ti 8GB DDR4 DRAM, 256GB SSD 1080p for $800?

All the major players, Dell, HP,... seem to have a 1050 or 1050 ti based laptop out now.

Generally a good idea to search the Hot Deals forum on FatWallet for a little history on deals.
 
blahsaysblah
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Re: Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:33 pm

The Skylake HD 530 on desktop CPU is just a tiny MHz bump vs the 520 on laptop CPU. If you have a Skylake or Kaby Lake PC and can enable the IGP, your friend can see exactly how good the laptop would be with games. (Except for the lower overall TDP constraint).
 
synthtel2
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Re: Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Thu Apr 27, 2017 9:41 pm

Sorry, I guess I thought it was obvious that $500 was already too much, and it probably wasn't. Worst case as a cap on cost would probably be the cheapest thing in some OEM's current lineup that still uses Intel's big cores and GT2, which should be $400 or less IIRC (probably less if it's a refurb or something, which it can be).

All I've got handy is a Haswell GT1 and a GTX 960.
 
synthtel2
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Re: Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:14 pm

To update, it looks like i3-6100U machines are common enough at $250-300 on eBay, so let's say that's what we're trying to beat. Lower cost than that and/or more graphics power than that are the name of the game. Of course not having every corner possible cut would be nice, but it would have a tough time being worse at that than the C2D it's replacing.
 
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Re: Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:31 pm

A $400 budget is horribly restrictive for anything with a dGPU.
new i5-7200U and GeForce 940MX with 1080p screen for $480 or refurb i5-6200U and GeForce 940MX with 256GB SSD and 1080p screen for $455.
If you're going for ebay type stuff, well....that's probably going to be the cheapest route. Everything there is a gamble. Keep in mind the most common thing to break on a laptop is the hard drive. You might get lucky on ebay with a machine someone thinks is broke but only needs a $75 SSD.... Or you might get a paperweight....
Current machine is a C2D laptop?
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NoOne ButMe
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Re: Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:36 pm

Kaveri or Carrizo laptop with dual-channel suppprt and 35W TPD is probably the best bet.


I will try to find some tomorrow morning. Worst case, if I can dig my old Llano laptop out, I have no Problem shipping if if it costs under $25. I'm not sure if if fits into the proper flat rate box. And o assume friend is USA based.


Not ideal, but good substitute while saving money

A bit pricey for what you want, and due to it being Carrizo still need to Check how many channels it supports as well as TPD, but example https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B01B6Q13 ... ref=plSrch
 
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Re: Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:35 am

i3 U-6100 machines seem the best option. I see one right now on ebay for <$200.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LENOVO-IDEAPAD- ... SwrddY8Aiv

More reliable drivers will be AMD, but getting one which is supported (GCN) is to expensive for the class of performance needed. The best I found was http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hp-AMD-A10-5750 ... Sw4CFY0BVx

Which is a bit faster than the i3 in terms of graphics. And when AMD's turbo functions properly will be only a bit slower in ST. I have little faith in AMD's turbo based on my usage. But, YMMV.

There is also HP's outlet, where if one wishes to battle a terrible UI and ordering system, there can be some insane deals.
https://h41369.www4.hp.com/pps-offers.php
 
NoOne ButMe
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Re: Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:55 am

aha! Found one!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Inspiron-1 ... SwdGFYnbOo

Should be a considerably faster than the i3.

This is about the best performance you will be able to get <$300 unless you get really lucky.
 
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Re: Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:58 am

Anything U series is going to start throttling like crazy as soon as you load up a game. :\
 
NoOne ButMe
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Re: Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:52 am

NTMBK wrote:
Anything U series is going to start throttling like crazy as soon as you load up a game. :\

So the HP Machine with APU it be?
 
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Re: Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:09 am

NoOne ButMe wrote:
NTMBK wrote:
Anything U series is going to start throttling like crazy as soon as you load up a game. :\

So the HP Machine with APU it be?


That would be my preferred option, so long as you can upgrade it to dual-channel memory. Single channel seriously chokes graphics performance!
 
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Re: Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:43 am

You are not going to find a new laptop with dedicated graphics for less than $500. Maybe a refurb. Cheapest new laptop you can get with dedicated graphics would be the few that are out there with the 940MX GPU. Those are slightly higher than $500.

If your budget is less than $500, you will have to settle for Intel or AMD integrated graphics unless you buy something with a dedicated GPU that is used on eBay. The integrated graphics on a new i3 or i5 or AMD laptop would have no problem playing a current game on a low resolution with low settings, but that's about all you can hope for.

A decent laptop with a decent dedicated GPU (Nvidia 1050) is going to set you back a minimum of $750 right now.
 
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Re: Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:06 am

I got the wife an HP Elitebook 8570p Core i5 (3rd or 4th gen) with amd radeon 5700? graphics.
15.5" 1920x1080 screen for $200 plus another $40 for memory upgrade from 4gig to 12gig ram.
Stuck in an SSD we already had.

Nice medium weight machine that runs VERY cool.

Runs windows 10 perfectly and does fine running Kings Quest.

Jump on Ebay and take a look around at what is available.
Main machine: Core I7 -2600K @ 4.0Ghz / 16 gig ram / Radeon RX 580 8gb / 500gb toshiba ssd / 5tb hd
Old machine: Core 2 quad Q6600 @ 3ghz / 8 gig ram / Radeon 7870 / 240 gb PNY ssd / 1tb HD
 
synthtel2
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Re: Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:18 pm

DPete27 wrote:
Current machine is a C2D laptop?

Yup. Not only that, but the hinges are busted and the screen has a couple square centimeter patch of dark pixels. He's one of those people who just uses a smartphone for most stuff.

NoOne ButMe wrote:
Worst case, if I can dig my old Llano laptop out, I have no Problem shipping if if it costs under $25. I'm not sure if if fits into the proper flat rate box. And o assume friend is USA based.


Not ideal, but good substitute while saving money

I pinged him about it, and if it's one of the quads (the 4C models got much beefier iGPUs), that would actually be great. That would still be a massive boost over the 4500MHD. It is USA, and we could get shipping covered.

NoOne ButMe wrote:
i3 U-6100 machines seem the best option. I see one right now on ebay for <$200.

[...]

Yeah, I'm leaning towards i3-5005U or i3-6100U systems too (Haswell -> Broadwell was the last big GPU tech jump, right?). The trouble with Kaveri/Carrizo is that I can't reliably tell which ones are full power and dual channel. Maybe my google-fu just isn't strong enough?

If you've got a stopgap, maybe the rest of this can be put off until the budget expands to fit one of those 940M(X) machines (or hopefully even better). Speaking of those, what's the difference between a 940M and a 940MX? My usual source doesn't seem to know what a 940MX is.

NoOne ButMe wrote:
aha! Found one!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Inspiron-1 ... SwdGFYnbOo

Should be a considerably faster than the i3.

This is about the best performance you will be able to get <$300 unless you get really lucky.


Aha, GT3! There's definitely no $300 handy in time to buy that one, but I didn't expect those to show up at prices that low. Will definitely keep that in mind. Thanks!
 
DPete27
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Re: Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:28 pm

GeForce 940M was 2015. The 940MX was a 2016 refresh with slightly higher clocks. Also the 940MX has support for GDDR5 although I'd assume most laptops used DDR3
Main: i5-3570K, ASRock Z77 Pro4-M, MSI RX480 8G, 500GB Crucial BX100, 2 TB Samsung EcoGreen F4, 16GB 1600MHz G.Skill @1.25V, EVGA 550-G2, Silverstone PS07B
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NoOne ButMe
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Re: Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Fri Apr 28, 2017 4:50 pm

synthtel2 wrote:
Aha, GT3! There's definitely no $300 handy in time to buy that one, but I didn't expect those to show up at prices that low. Will definitely keep that in mind. Thanks!

If what NTMBK wrote is true, considering a Haswell i3-4000M machine.

With a 35W TPD, you should be able to run CPU and iGPU at full clock.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-ThinkPad ... SwX61ZA6bH

and will PM in a bit.


Actually, i just found this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LENOVO-ThinkPad ... SwkShY8nIW
0.0

Actually nevermind the 2nd link, did some digging and it's a Fermi card. Not much faster than the HD4600 in the system. Although, it isn't much more than one with the 4600HD. *IDunnoMan*
Last edited by NoOne ButMe on Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
NTMBK
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Re: Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:06 pm

NoOne ButMe wrote:
synthtel2 wrote:
Aha, GT3! There's definitely no $300 handy in time to buy that one, but I didn't expect those to show up at prices that low. Will definitely keep that in mind. Thanks!

If what NTMBK wrote is true, considering a Haswell i3-4000M machine.

With a 35W TPD, you should be able to run CPU and iGPU at full clock.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lenovo-ThinkPad ... SwX61ZA6bH

and will PM in a bit.


Actually, i just found this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/LENOVO-ThinkPad ... SwkShY8nIW

0.0


Well I'm going off what I experienced on Haswell systems, the new 14nm chips might do a better job. I'd probably still take a Broadwell U over the Haswell M, I'm just sad that 35W systems seem to be a dying breed! :(
 
NoOne ButMe
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Re: Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:11 pm

NTMBK wrote:
Well I'm going off what I experienced on Haswell systems, the new 14nm chips might do a better job. I'd probably still take a Broadwell U over the Haswell M, I'm just sad that 35W systems seem to be a dying breed! :(

But without 35W systems, we can ensure that you upgrade sooner get thinner and lighter laptops with longer battery life.

Also consider, pref/watt from Haswell to Broadwell was <= 2x. At around 2x the TPD, the performance shouldn't differ much. I don't recall skylake (or broadwell) being more than 2x pref/watt at least.
Also a deep look at specs has the 4200m at 20 EU/1150mhz versus 24eu/1000mhz

so performance should be ~5% slower if the 15W i3 doesn't throttle.
 
NoOne ButMe
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Re: Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:21 pm

I mean 4000m/4100m. Which are 1100mhz. Not 5200m.
 
NoOne ButMe
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Re: Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:20 pm

More research done, an AMD A8-6410 or A8-7410 will preform on average about 15-25% below the HD4600. CPU is weaker ST,

And can be had for a little less. Seems 130-150 including shipping on the low end.
 
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Re: Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Fri Apr 28, 2017 7:45 pm

Have you talked to your friend to see if he actually needs laptop? A PC would let him invest and upgrade over time. That core 2 duo, if it was a PC, could have a gtx 750 ti in it... If he mostly uses smartphone. Maybe if hes not familiar with Chromecast, mention that, that should clear up most mobile uses.

Also, a used Intel NUC could suffice, generally have better IGP. If you have access to MicroCenter, occasionally find open box versions cheaper. I bought nuc5i7 for $330 from them(remember,no OS, ram and storage). If its really about space and not mobility, can velcro to back of monitor or TV.

Not trying to derail, but sometimes, they don't know all options available to them. If not a techie... Parents insisted on laptop, and i shouldn't have let them. They had experience with hulking PC, not new small ones.

If you try PC, dont go g4560 unless you sure he'll get gpu, has tier 1 igp, not tier 2. G4500 or G4600.
 
synthtel2
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Re: Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:17 pm

Cat cores are probably a bad idea. The C2D is enough CPU performance (for Mixcraft), but not by that kind of margin.

A desktop might work, but is definitely disadvantageous, and there's no display already there to plug it into. As soon as I upgrade to Ryzen (which will probably be shortly after anyone who isn't Biostar gets around to releasing a mITX board), I'll have an appropriate pile of spare parts handy, but it would still take a CPU cooler, monitor, keyboard, and Windows key to tie it all together. (The C2D system's COA is worn down to illegibility.) It would be a vastly more powerful and reliable system for similar cost, but both portability and space savings really are worth something.
 
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Re: Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:49 am

Might be worth looking at the A9-9410- it's got two Excavator cores and 192 GCN shaders. Limited to single channel DDR4, but should still be faster than the A8-7410 (though a tad slower at multitasking).
 
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Re: Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:04 am

synthtel2 wrote:
The trouble with Kaveri/Carrizo is that I can't reliably tell which ones are full power and dual channel. Maybe my google-fu just isn't strong enough?


For Kaveri it's the second number being even (e.g. A8-7200 instead of A8-7100). They also end in P.

Carizzo you can't tell, all the chips have configurable ranges between 15W and 35W so it's down to the individual laptop model. If the same chassis is used for Intel 15W chips then it's safest to assume it's at the lower end.

AMD realised their mistake and stopped that for Bristol Ridge, the 25W-45W ones have model numbers ending in 30.

I'm not sure about dual channel support.
 
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Re: Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Tue May 02, 2017 3:50 pm

synthtel2 wrote:
A desktop might work, but is definitely disadvantageous, and there's no display already there to plug it into.

Consider something like a refurb tower for $235 gets you an i5-3470, 8GB RAM, 500GB hdd, Win10, and a keyboard/mouse.
I get monitors from my local e-waste recycling center for $30 each. Many are 22" 1600x900 that work perfectly fine but are too small for businesses nowadays, but whatever, better FPS!!!
You can get a 4GB GTX1050Ti for $120 after MIR. That's obviously a lot more GPU than you need, but I'm just putting it here because it's likely a better perf/$ value than most other sub-$100 GPUs.
Not sure if the included PSU is enough, otherwise add $25
________________________
Total = $410.
Something like that is leaps and bounds better performance than any sub-$1,000 laptop and it will hold up better. Portability is the kicker, but I just wanted to point out the option since you brought it up.
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Re: Laptops with graphics power on a budget?

Tue May 02, 2017 10:26 pm

A desktop is your best bet if you want dirt cheap graphics, because the GPU laptops that I'd be willing to recommend don't start until around $600 new or used. That said, if the person in question can pinch some pennies it makes a lot of sense to buy good quality hardware because it doesn't go bad like it used to.

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