Personal computing discussed
Moderators: renee, David, mac_h8r1, Nelliesboo
cheesyking wrote:Personally I'm using a 2013 nexus 5 and despite a battery change being very easy on this phone I haven't felt the need to replace the original battery yet so it's not like phone batteries only last 2 years.
Shobai wrote:cheesyking wrote:Personally I'm using a 2013 nexus 5 and despite a battery change being very easy on this phone I haven't felt the need to replace the original battery yet so it's not like phone batteries only last 2 years.
I hear this thought often. Before generalising your experience, it's worth noting that (for all of the various Lithium-X battery tech) their service life is defined by a charge cycle count of up to 1800 cycles, and generally fewer. If you charge your phone roughly once a day, you will reach that service life in roughly 18 months, for most phones and most users. YMMV, obviously, but this is designed behaviour.
Shobai wrote:service life is defined by a charge cycle count of up to 1800 cycles, and generally fewer. If you charge your phone roughly once a day, you will reach that service life in roughly 18 months
Shobai wrote:cheesyking wrote:Personally I'm using a 2013 nexus 5 and despite a battery change being very easy on this phone I haven't felt the need to replace the original battery yet so it's not like phone batteries only last 2 years.
I hear this thought often. Before generalising your experience, it's worth noting that (for all of the various Lithium-X battery tech) their service life is defined by a charge cycle count of up to 1800 cycles, and generally fewer. If you charge your phone roughly once a day, you will reach that service life in roughly 18 months, for most phones and most users. YMMV, obviously, but this is designed behaviour.
just brew it! wrote:Well, I have a long-ish commute on public transit, so I run the battery down a fair bit both morning and evening. I would not make it through most weekdays on a single charge. That's probably a heavier usage pattern than most people, but not completely outlandish.
cheesyking wrote:How do you get 1800 cycles = 18 months?
meerkt wrote:Assuming 1800, how did you arrive at 18 months?
just brew it! wrote:"Designed" in the sense that we don't know how to design batteries with the combination of energy density, charge/discharge rate, and cost that can withstand more charge cycles. Not "designed for planned obsolescence".
Shobai wrote:I was thinking in the sense that all engineering decisions are made in terms of tradeoffs between different outcomes, and that charge cycle count is simply one of those variables. I can't say that manufacturers elect to use battery tech that they know will effectively last only roughly as long as their warranty period, or any similar 'planned obsolescence' thought; I also can't say they choose batteries that will last longer than 'necessary'.
ludi wrote:The first patent holder for a cell having Lithium power density while cross-dressing as a supercapacitor will be made filthy rich by the electric car industry, so the incentives are there. It just isn't all that easy.
ludi wrote:For better or worse, swappable batteries are thicker and heavier than they otherwise need to be, because of the requirement for a protective shell. Device designs that integrate the battery don't require much more than the actual pouch.
In the US, at least, nearly any phone that can be opened non-destructively, can have the battery swapped at a Batteries Plus store in about 45 minutes. So unless the device is completely glued together, it's not going obsolete because of a battery wear-down.
ludi wrote:The cathode gradually degrades with repeated charge/discharge cycles, and the rate of failure is aggravated by increased charge/discharge rates and temperature. Mobile devices tend to be one of the worst possible environments for battery usage.
The Egg wrote:With that said, lets not kid ourselves into thinking it isn't intended to push users in the direction of a new device.
ChicagoDave wrote:Fairly certain the main reason phone manufacturers are sealing phone batteries is to increase water resistance. Planned obsolescence is just a nice side benefit.
Also agree with ludi....the vast majority of consumers don't give a crap about replaceable batteries. I care (and care about SD storage even more), but I recognize I'm in the minority.
ludi wrote:If the feature life of a typical phone was longer than 2-3 years or if smartphones traditionally had user-accessible batteries, I might agree, but in many cases the consumers themselves are clamoring for new products. Apple has dominated the US smartphone market from the beginning and has never had a user-replaceable battery.
cheesyking wrote:I just don't see user replaceable batteries as important any more. As mentioned usb power banks are a thing these days and are generally cheaper and more convenient than a spare battery for the phone. (it charges multiple devices, can be recharged independently of the phone, you don't have to turn the phone off etc etc)
Being able to replace the internal battery when it wears out should be a legal requirement IMHO but so long as that can be done in a few minutes with a couple of simple tools I'd be happy.
Personally I'm using a 2013 nexus 5 and despite a battery change being very easy on this phone I haven't felt the need to replace the original battery yet so it's not like phone batteries only last 2 years.
meerkt wrote:It's indeed a problem for swapping on the go, but for long-term wear some phones are more openable than others.
The problem is that it requires more research (iFixit, YouTube...)
The Egg wrote:As mentioned above, solutions exist, so it's not the end of the world; I'm just a bit more cynical about the motives. I also think we've reached a point of rapidly diminishing returns for phone hardware, so aside from dropped software support (which will become harder to justify), people may soon want to start to stretch that 2-3 years a little further.
ChicagoDave wrote:I've had the Moto G4 Play for about a year now, love it and would highly recommend it. It has a removable battery and SD card (micro I think?).
travbrad wrote:I don't suppose anyone has experience with the Huawei Honor 6x? Technically the battery isn't removable, but you can do it without any glue melting or soldering, so basically no more difficult than laptop repair. The performance looks pretty comparable to the G5/G5 Plus but it's cheaper and has 3GB RAM instead of 2GB. I know Moto stuff is going to be closer to stock Android though by default which is nice, plus probably easier to get parts for them long-term.
I've been watching a lot of teardown videos of phones and after watching more of them it does seem like most can have the battery replaced without soldering, but most will require melting glue with a heat gun, removing the motherboard, etc. Still not ideal but I think I could handle that part with a lot more confidence than tiny soldering. The soldering requirement seems to actually be more common in the most expensive phones too.