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Flying Fox
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Re: Phone dilemma

Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:45 pm

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
Thanks for the clarification. I was missing that extra layer. So in the case of the Pixel, Google is providing both layers, but for the S9, Google is providing the lowest layer and Samsung provides the next layer?

I guess the follow-up question is can security updates be made to the lowest layer independent of the higher layer? Sounds like not.

Project Treble is supposed to materially move the needle in the right direction. It will take some time before most devices are upgraded/bought to support the baseline Oreo for the impact to show.

Still, carriers may still be a problem.
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Re: Phone dilemma

Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:47 pm

Kretschmer is mostly right, though the Android landscape is finally changing for the better mostly due to some pretty huge architectural changes Google has made to the core OS.

I know this stuff gets pretty hairy, but if you're really interested in how the ecosystem works, here are some good links. The biggest thing to happen in years for Android security updates (and OS updates honestly) is Project Treble. With Android O (the current version--though this is changing very soon, the next version (P) is coming out very, very soon) Google changed a bunch of underlying frameworks to make all the updates easier for carriers/OEMs etc to make updates to their phones. That doesn't mean everyone has implemented it yet though, and if a phone launched with an Android version previous to O, then the chances it got Project Treble implemented are slim to none as it is a ton of work.

https://source.android.com/devices/architecture/
https://android-developers.googleblog.c ... e-for.html

edit: ninja'd by Fox though I think there is still some good info here so I will leave the post
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Re: Phone dilemma

Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:07 am

But why is it that way. Is the second layer that interconnected to the lowest layer? Does no OEM offer "stock Android" that doesn't need the validation?
 
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Re: Phone dilemma

Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:04 am

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
But why is it that way. Is the second layer that interconnected to the lowest layer? Does no OEM offer "stock Android" that doesn't need the validation?

Some OEMs offer pretty close to stock Android - Nokia and Motorola for example. I would love for all the OEMs to offer stock Android, as it would save them R&D and theoretically make updates more responsive. But they appear to see the skinning and cloned apps as part of their branding and differentiation. Also, Samsung always has their own non-Android OS in their back pocket in case they fall out with Google.

Fragmentation is alive and well, though - as noted earlier - Google is trying to push more functionality and updates to the apps instead of the underlying OS.
 
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Re: Phone dilemma

Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:05 am

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
But why is it that way. Is the second layer that interconnected to the lowest layer? Does no OEM offer "stock Android" that doesn't need the validation?

A few of them do. Essential (the Andy Rubin startup that is more or less failing) has stock Android for the most part and that phone gets updates pretty quickly. OEMs just think they can improve on AOSP with their changes most the time.
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Re: Phone dilemma

Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:07 am

Kretschmer wrote:
This is why users tend to gravitate towards stock and unlocked android phones

In the US and Canada (and maybe other parts of the world) that's absolutely not true. Users gravitate towards whatever their carriers provide because it's convenient and there's little-to-no up-front cost. The exception to that is prepaid phones, and those phones are usually locked to the carrier and can't be used on other networks. They also tend to be abandonware.
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Re: Phone dilemma

Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:18 am

derFunkenstein wrote:
Kretschmer wrote:
This is why users tend to gravitate towards stock and unlocked android phones

In the US and Canada (and maybe other parts of the world) that's absolutely not true. Users gravitate towards whatever their carriers provide because it's convenient and there's little-to-no up-front cost. The exception to that is prepaid phones, and those phones are usually locked to the carrier and can't be used on other networks. They also tend to be abandonware.

Stock, unlocked phones are the exception, not the rule. Look outside of nerd culture, and the silent majority shops on price ($0 down! "Only" $45 a month for 2 years!) and convenience (what's a "New egg"? Best Buy has phones in stock that already work with Verizon!)
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Re: Phone dilemma

Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:22 am

derFunkenstein wrote:
Kretschmer wrote:
This is why users tend to gravitate towards stock and unlocked android phones

In the US and Canada (and maybe other parts of the world) that's absolutely not true. Users gravitate towards whatever their carriers provide because it's convenient and there's little-to-no up-front cost. The exception to that is prepaid phones, and those phones are usually locked to the carrier and can't be used on other networks. They also tend to be abandonware.

Yeah, this is defnitely true for the whole world. The stock Android OEMs have maybe like 5 percent of the (Android) market, each. Don't forget, the big boys are just five or so of the OEMs and they all have pretty heavy skins.

https://www.appbrain.com/stats/top-manufacturers
https://www.statista.com/statistics/271 ... rter-2009/
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Re: Phone dilemma

Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:10 am

derFunkenstein wrote:
Kretschmer wrote:
This is why users tend to gravitate towards stock and unlocked android phones

In the US and Canada (and maybe other parts of the world) that's absolutely not true. Users gravitate towards whatever their carriers provide because it's convenient and there's little-to-no up-front cost. The exception to that is prepaid phones, and those phones are usually locked to the carrier and can't be used on other networks. They also tend to be abandonware.

Sorry, I meant to say "geeky users," not the generic public. E.g. you see tons of recommendations for Pixels (and previously Nexus devices) on techie fora.
 
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Re: Phone dilemma

Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:13 am

Oh that's true, but even then I bought my Pixel 2 through Verizon. It's silly to pay up front if they'll finance it interest-free.
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Re: Phone dilemma

Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:43 am

derFunkenstein wrote:
Oh that's true, but even then I bought my Pixel 2 through Verizon. It's silly to pay up front if they'll finance it interest-free.

Funk, no no no no no. Avoid carriers at all costs. I am also on Verizon (and likely won't be going anywhere anytime soon. almost 20 years now), but I don't buy a phone unless it's unlocked. It's more of a principle than it was for real purpose, but I just will not put up with their crap locking phones down anymore.

That's another choice that drives me toward Pixels and iPhones. They have both offered unlocked versions since I made this choice a hard and fast rule. And btw, both Apple and Google offer financing that's just as good as the carriers.
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Re: Phone dilemma

Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:47 am

derFunkenstein wrote:
Oh that's true, but even then I bought my Pixel 2 through Verizon. It's silly to pay up front if they'll finance it interest-free.

As long as you can unlock it whenever you want and pay off the contract whenever you want with cash with no pre-payment penalty.
 
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Re: Phone dilemma

Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:27 am

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The Verizon version is SIM-unlocked and will work on any carrier globally right out of the box. Despite some scary articles earlier this year, their policy hasn't changed. That's part of Verizon's agreement with the FCC from buying 700MHz spectrum.

It isn't bootloader-unlocked but I'm buying a Google phone specifically so that I don't have to worry bout getting a custom ROM that isn't skinned. That's the only difference (from what I can tell) between Verizon and buying from Google. There's no Verizon bloatware installed. I'm sorry but I'm not forking out $650 or $700 (or more, for a 128GB Pixel 2 XL) up front for a phone if I don't have to. I'm not even sorry, really, so I'm sorry for lying. I'm not going anywhere or switching carriers.

And no, there's no pre-payment penalty with Verizon. Just pay off the device and the sales tax (which is included in the monthly installments, too).
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Re: Phone dilemma

Fri Aug 03, 2018 11:30 am

Then I see no problem with it.
 
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Re: Phone dilemma

Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:10 pm

That's all fine and good, but like I said towards the end of my post, there are financing options from Apple and Google. It's not as if you have to shell out the 800 bucks right up front anymore. Like I said above, it's more of a principle for me than real utility, though having an unlockable bootloader is still useful for me in some cases.
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Re: Phone dilemma

Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:21 pm

There are financing options from the manufacturer, but there are no free financing options. They're usually roughly the same as a credit card on the rate, rather than 0% interest. Imma just pinch pennies, it's how I get through life. LOL
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Re: Phone dilemma

Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:36 pm

Yes and no. There are "loopholes" you can find using their financing options. If you spend certain amounts within certain time periods, you can get the 0 percent, but generally you're probably better off using the carrier financing if you're penching pennies like you said.

Either way, I still hate Verizon's BS. If only another carrier has as good of coverage.
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Re: Phone dilemma

Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:11 pm

if another carrier had as good of coverage you wouldn't have to switch because Verizon wouldn't get away with it. Or the other carrier would be just as bad. :lol:
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Re: Phone dilemma

Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:21 pm

T-mo is getting there! Their 600MHz and 700MHz spectrum is making a good dent. I'm also generally in urban areas so it's not a huge deal for me most of the time, but I live in KS so, y'know, there are issues I can't avoid at present.
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Re: Phone dilemma

Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:41 pm

Exactly why my wife is still on Verizon. Her parent's property is in the middle of nowhere and Verizon is the only signal that works. The Sprint network on my phone is just as bad as T-Mobile was in that it is unusable inside.
 
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Re: Phone dilemma

Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:04 pm

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
Exactly why my wife is still on Verizon. Her parent's property is in the middle of nowhere and Verizon is the only signal that works. The Sprint network on my phone is just as bad as T-Mobile was in that it is unusable inside.

It's da best. I've been spoiled. I have had Verizon, and the same phone number, ever since I got a cell phone so all I have experienced is good coverage in rural areas (even if CDMA was ungodly slow). I really think we'll see things changing in the coming five years though. Like I said, T-Mo is seriously catching up with their new spectrum, and if they are allowed to merge with Sprint, they'll have just as much coverage as Verizon once all the retrofitting and frequency changes get put in place. AT&T, once the sole carrier to have the iPhone, will be in "last place." Crazy.
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Re: Phone dilemma

Fri Aug 03, 2018 2:11 pm

DancinJack wrote:
T-mo is getting there! Their 600MHz and 700MHz spectrum is making a good dent. I'm also generally in urban areas so it's not a huge deal for me most of the time, but I live in KS so, y'know, there are issues I can't avoid at present.

Same in downstate Illinois. My town isn't small (30,000) but the nearest "big" city is only 100k and we're 3 hours outside of a "major" metropolitan area (roughly equidistant to Chicago, St. Louis, and Indianapolis). T-Mobile and Sprint have always been awful here, and AT&T might be even more loathed than Verizon. US Cellular is around here but they always seem like a bad quarter or two from going belly-up.
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Re: Phone dilemma

Thu Aug 16, 2018 2:52 am

Since a thread is here for phone dilemma, I would like to get a suggestion to counter my phone dilemma. I bought an Iphone 6 16 gb back in the second half of 2016. It was running fine until later last month its wifi stopped working. By this I mean if I am very near to the wifi router I get complete coverage, the moment I am just 4-5ft away the phone stops receiving the signals. The 3g although works completely fine and so does other features on the device.
I do not know what the exact issue is, whether it is with my phone or with my home router. I am quite skeptical to get the device repaired if the issue is in the device because I am not sure whether it will be working perfectly after the repair. So, I am thinking of selling it off and get some android phone with $200 range.

So, far I have just checked out the Oppo A83 with 3gb ram and 32gb internal storage. The device has almost all the necessary features, good camera, decent screen size too.

The dilemma is I am not finding any other option to go for other than Oppo.

I would like to get some recommendations with the similar features just like oppo in the range I have mentioned. Not going for Samsung as never had good experience with it.

Please get me some recommendations, would really appreciate your suggestions.

TIA.
 
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Re: Phone dilemma

Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:55 am

oliv88 wrote:
Since a thread is here for phone dilemma, I would like to get a suggestion to counter my phone dilemma. I bought an Iphone 6 16 gb back in the second half of 2016. It was running fine until later last month its wifi stopped working. By this I mean if I am very near to the wifi router I get complete coverage, the moment I am just 4-5ft away the phone stops receiving the signals. The 3g although works completely fine and so does other features on the device.

A lot of iPhone6 models had trouble with the combo WiFi/GPS antenna becoming flaky because of a flat ribbon cable that passes behind the camera module from a system board connection to the antenna module, and slowly loosens over time. It can be repaired cheaply if you DIY it using an iFixIt kit or similar, but how long the repair will last is anyone's guess. On my wife's 6, the first repair lasted maybe 4-6 months. The second one flaked out in half that time, and that's when we upgraded her to a 6S.
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Re: Phone dilemma

Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:10 pm

If you have a dual band router, try the other frequency to see if it makes a difference. Otherwise, refer to what Ludi just said previously.
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Re: Phone dilemma

Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:56 am

ludi wrote:
oliv88 wrote:
Since a thread is here for phone dilemma, I would like to get a suggestion to counter my phone dilemma. I bought an Iphone 6 16 gb back in the second half of 2016. It was running fine until later last month its wifi stopped working. By this I mean if I am very near to the wifi router I get complete coverage, the moment I am just 4-5ft away the phone stops receiving the signals. The 3g although works completely fine and so does other features on the device.

A lot of iPhone6 models had trouble with the combo WiFi/GPS antenna becoming flaky because of a flat ribbon cable that passes behind the camera module from a system board connection to the antenna module, and slowly loosens over time. It can be repaired cheaply if you DIY it using an iFixIt kit or similar, but how long the repair will last is anyone's guess. On my wife's 6, the first repair lasted maybe 4-6 months. The second one flaked out in half that time, and that's when we upgraded her to a 6S.


I tried getting in repaired but it did not last long. I have finally upgraded to the iPhone 8.
 
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Re: Phone dilemma - Solved

Fri Mar 08, 2019 9:57 am

Well, I finally did it... I pulled the trigger. I have a Razer Phone 2 on the way. So long Win10 mobile, it's been a good run for me I and I know I will miss it.
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cynan
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Re: Phone dilemma

Fri Mar 08, 2019 10:35 am

The Galaxy S9 is a decentdeal right now at <$500 unlocked (about the same $ as Pixel 2). And Samsung's treatment of Android Pie (One UI) is not too shabby. Comes with headphone jack, microSD and decent camera too.

The camera on the Pixel 2 may be more capable, but the one on the S9 (particularly the Plus, with the second camera) is no slouch. With the S9, you get a better screen - so I would say it depends which is more important to you.
 
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Re: Phone dilemma - Solved

Fri Mar 08, 2019 11:23 am

Pville_Piper wrote:
Well, I finally did it... I pulled the trigger. I have a Razer Phone 2 on the way. So long Win10 mobile, it's been a good run for me I and I know I will miss it.

Did you already see Dr. Fish's front-page article on making the same leap, and customizing Android using a Windows-replacement launcher?

https://techreport.com/review/34459/the ... bile-grief
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Pville_Piper
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Re: Phone dilemma - Solved

Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:27 pm

ludi wrote:
Did you already see Dr. Fish's front-page article on making the same leap, and customizing Android using a Windows-replacement launcher?

https://techreport.com/review/34459/the ... bile-grief


I did, I already run my work phone (Galaxy 7) with the Windows launcher. It's alright, a bit buggy from time to time but I’m not sure if that’s the Samsung or the app. I don’t like Samsung phones (the hardware is good, the interface borders on obnoxious bloatware) so I went another route.
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