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Pville_Piper
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Phone dilemma

Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:27 pm

As one of the last holdouts of the Windows Mobile I now face an agonizing search for a new phone as my 950XL has a cracked screen and is failing and my backup Nokia 1520 is acting flakey. I have really liked the simplicity and ease of use of the Windows Mobile but I can't see buying a used 950XL or Lumia 1520 phone or repairing either. I can get a digitizer for the 950XL for about $160 but that just seems like pissing money down a hole and delaying the inevitable.
My options are limited, Android or IPhone. I hate Apple, the closed off, limited options, and pricey phones. Every time I have to deal with my wife's it reminds me how much I hate Apple. Some of the things that I can do on an Android or Windows phone easily are like pullin teeth on an IPhone.
On the other hand you have Android, to which my experience is only with the Samsung variety. I currently have an S7 Galaxy work phone provided by my employer and I can't say that I like it. It seems like an over-achieving child that every time I go to do something it tries to suggest another way of doing it. The GPS is a good example... It doesn't allow me to say NO to toll roads. So I carefully set up a route that avoids toll roads and low and behold, as I'm driving along, it tries to get me to take the toll road. I've even had it suggest, constantly, routes that would take longer than the route I planned to take! All of this is going on while driving down the road... Talk about distracted driving. And this is just the GPS.
I'd use my work phone as my primary phone but I did that with my last job and when I left that job I couldn't take the number which I used for 10+ years. Not to mention that the work phone only has 1gb of data.
My biggest hang up about Android is that security is an absolute mess. My son who is an IT consultant said if he were in charge of corporate security he wouldn’t allow Android to access his system and from the things I’ve read I can understand that.
One of things I have always like about my Windows phone is the camera. My 950XL takes as good of pictures as the S7 and the 1520 isn’t very far behind that. Other than that my needs are modest; let’s face it, the windows phone didn’t have many apps to work with and the main thing I use that phone for is to surf the web, read Kindle books, listen to music and read email. Most of the apps I do use are for work and are travel related so I have them on work phone.
So that’s it, go with a buggy, security loose android at a reasonable cost or go with the anal, but secure, high priced apple.
Sorry for the rant, I’m just at wits end about this… Maybe I should is the local shrink has a former Windows Phone support group…
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ludi
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Re: Phone dilemma

Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:08 pm

IMO there's really only one recommendation for someone in your position: a Google Pixel (if you want a headphone jack, still available in used/refurb) or a Pixel2. Stock Android on good hardware, none of the Samsung garble-ware, plenty of tinkering capacity if you enable the Developer Options, great camera. And Microsoft now has Android versions of the major Office apps plus PowerPoint Remote capability and a limited Remote Desktop capability, so you can get back some of the stuff you had on Windows Phone.
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RickyTick
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Re: Phone dilemma

Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:38 pm

I was faced with the same dilemma a couple of years ago when my Windows Phone finally died. Boy do I miss my WP.

I went with the iPhone6. It took several weeks (months) before I was proficient with it, but I eventually got used to it. I still hate Apple, and I'd love to go back to WP, but it's just not happening.

I'd recommend the iPhone 6s. You can find some deals here and there if you look around,. Oh,and it still has the headphone jack. My wife has the 7 and I don't care for the non-tactile touch of the buttons. Otherwise they are very similar.

It's a tough call. Best of luck.
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DancinJack
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Re: Phone dilemma

Thu Jul 26, 2018 7:37 am

I'll echo what others have said. Pixel/Pixel 2 or iPhone are the real options IMO. You can find OG Pixels pretty cheap now, and the Pixel 3 isn't far off so you should see some Pixel 2 sales soon as well.
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drfish
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Re: Phone dilemma

Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:00 am

Still kicking myself for not getting one of these when I had a chance.

I "helped" someone setup their S8 yesterday, it was horrifying. iOS is only slightly better, but even less desirable.

I'm keeping my $99 refurbished Lumia Icon forever at this rate.
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Philldoe
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Re: Phone dilemma

Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:15 am

You should look into getting a Nokia 8 off of amazon. It's built with Android One which means it's just the base stock android with none of the stupid crap companies like Samsung add to their phones.
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Chrispy_
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Re: Phone dilemma

Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:20 am

Android security may be a mess, but it's improving faster than other platforms and it's still at a reasonable level if you stick with Android.One, Pixel, or get an phone that is compatible with an official LineageOS build (what became of Cyanogenmod).

Personally I would go Pixel. Apple's phones are decent but they are pure evil at the consumer's expense (literally). Nokia 6.1 (emphasis on .One) is worth a look at a lower budget too.

I'm running Lineage on a Galaxy and I get weekly security updates. I don't think even Pixel devices get updates that often.
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derFunkenstein
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Re: Phone dilemma

Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:21 am

DancinJack wrote:
I'll echo what others have said. Pixel/Pixel 2 or iPhone are the real options IMO. You can find OG Pixels pretty cheap now, and the Pixel 3 isn't far off so you should see some Pixel 2 sales soon as well.

Seconded. I really like my Pixel 2 (non XL). Best Android experience I've ever had (and I've had a lot of them that date back to the LG Optimus T in 2010). Three years of OS updates (and a fourth year of security updates) is better than any other Android OEM and getting them day one is pretty nice, too. I know people hold onto phones forever and you'll be down a year at the start, but that is still 2 and 3 years for you.
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kvndoom
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Re: Phone dilemma

Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:01 am

Any android phone you get, just remember the top 3 things to research:

1) as close to stock Android experience as possible
2) monthly security updates (some keep up, some never update at all)
3) how many OS updates are promised

Obviously the Pixel line will meet all 3 criteria but Google's own brand is on the line so that's kind of expected. But the price to pay is pretty steep (for me at least... my budget for literally throwaway technology is pretty low).
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meerkt
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Re: Phone dilemma

Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:49 am

Pville_Piper wrote:
The GPS is a good example... It doesn't allow me to say NO to toll roads.

There is more than one navigation software for Android. No need to stick with whatever comes preinstalled on a phone.
 
just brew it!
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Re: Phone dilemma

Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:06 pm

meerkt wrote:
Pville_Piper wrote:
The GPS is a good example... It doesn't allow me to say NO to toll roads.

There is more than one navigation software for Android. No need to stick with whatever comes preinstalled on a phone.

Not sore which navigation app you're using, but Google Maps navigation definitely has options to avoid tolls and/or interstates.

And the only times it seems to change routes on the fly are when I either deviate from the planned route, or there is a major backup from an accident.
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TurtlePerson2
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Re: Phone dilemma

Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:15 pm

Not to hijack the thread here, but neither Apple Maps nor Google Maps really does a good job with tolls. Where I live (Dallas), there are a lot of toll roads and the app will often tell me to take them even if it only saves a minute or two. I wish I could tell it that my time is worth "X" and then have it route me on toll roads depending on that.
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DancinJack
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Re: Phone dilemma

Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:24 pm

I don't live in Dallas, but this option has usually worked fine for me.
Image
Here are the directions it gave me.
From Baylor University Medical Center Emergency Room to Texas Christian University, 2800 S University Dr, Fort Worth, TX 76129 via I-30 W.

43 min (38 mi)
42 min in current traffic
Avoiding tolls

1. Head northeast toward Worth St
2. Turn right onto Worth St
3. Turn left onto Hall St
4. Turn left onto Commerce St
5. Use the right 2 lanes to turn right onto S 2nd Ave
6. Turn left onto Oak Ln
7. Turn left onto 1st Ave
8. Slight left onto the I-30 W ramp
9. Merge onto I-30 W
10. Keep right to stay on I-30 W
11. Keep right at the fork to stay on I-30 W
12. Take exit 12A for South University Drive toward City Parks/Zoo / Tcu
13. Keep right at the fork, follow signs for S University Dr/Ft Worth Zoo/Tcu
14. Merge onto S University Dr
15. Arrive at location: Texas Christian University
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TurtlePerson2
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Re: Phone dilemma

Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:32 pm

I know how to set them both to avoid tolls, but what I can't do is convince it to take the cost of the tolls into account. For example, just now I searched for the route to the airport. The first result that comes up is 25 minutes, but requires $4 of tolls. I can turn on avoid tolls and it will take 28 minutes, but no tolls. The issue is that the main road is 70 MPH and the toll road is 75 MPH. For most people, 3 minutes isn't worth $4, but Google just doesn't do that very well.

I find myself frequently having to check the directions with and without tolls so that I can make an informed decision.
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Re: Phone dilemma

Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:34 pm

TurtlePerson2 wrote:
I know how to set them both to avoid tolls, but what I can't do is convince it to take the cost of the tolls into account.

Windows Mobile does that?
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Re: Phone dilemma

Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:40 pm

I just came back from a 5,000 km road trip through the US and used Waze on my Pixel 2 XL (running Android P) for all my navigation needs. I fracking love Waze.

It kills me that you wrote a massive post complaining about iOS and Android when the biggest pile of poop is the phone you are currently using.
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Re: Phone dilemma

Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:11 pm

I don't know about camera quality, but Nokia's new phones are cheap with enough power for most users. Flagship Android phones are generally not a great value over cheaper options unless you need the best camera possible. Also note that 3.5mm jacks are disappearing all over, so be sure to check for that if you care. I regret my Pixel 2 purchase for the price and can't see ever buying a flagship again after picking up a pocketable premium discrete camera. Too many features are arbitrarily eliminated (especially 3.5mm jack, removable battery, and removable storage), flagships keep on getting thinner and more fragile, and performance has been "good enough" for several years. Samsung is even worse; my Galaxy S8 layered a maddening amount of complexity over stock Android and constantly second-guessed my choices (Are you SURE you don't want to use the Samsnug keyboard? Hey, we have an assistant!)
 
MileageMayVary
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Re: Phone dilemma

Fri Jul 27, 2018 8:52 am

When I finally jumped off of Windows Phone, I went with the Moto G4. Unlocked and compatible with all 4 carriers, fast enough chip, half decent camera. And under $250.
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TurtlePerson2
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Re: Phone dilemma

Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:03 am

End User wrote:
TurtlePerson2 wrote:
I know how to set them both to avoid tolls, but what I can't do is convince it to take the cost of the tolls into account.

Windows Mobile does that?

I assume not. I have an iPhone. I'm just complaining about how GPS navigation apps handle tolls. If you live in an area with tolled express lanes, the apps don't handle them well. Where I live, there are tons of them.
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Usacomp2k3
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Re: Phone dilemma

Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:57 pm

TurtlePerson2 wrote:
f you live in an area with tolled express lanes, the apps don't handle them well. Where I live, there are tons of them.

That's a good point and would be very hard to code.
End User wrote:
It kills me that you wrote a massive post complaining about iOS and Android when the biggest pile of poop is the phone you are currently using.

I'm guessing you've never used a Windows Phone...
 
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Re: Phone dilemma

Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:29 pm

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
I'm guessing you've never used a Windows Phone...

No Google Maps
No Waze
No apps
No way
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ludi
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Re: Phone dilemma

Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:02 pm

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
End User wrote:
It kills me that you wrote a massive post complaining about iOS and Android when the biggest pile of poop is the phone you are currently using.

I'm guessing you've never used a Windows Phone...

I only saw it in use a couple times, but it must have been spectacular. It kept getting back on its feet and trying to make a life for itself no matter how many times Microsoft took it behind the barn and shot it.
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Re: Phone dilemma

Fri Jul 27, 2018 5:18 pm

ludi wrote:
It kept getting back on its feet and trying to make a life for itself

That is one way to spin it. :roll:
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Re: Phone dilemma

Fri Jul 27, 2018 6:06 pm

MileageMayVary wrote:
When I finally jumped off of Windows Phone, I went with the Moto G4. Unlocked and compatible with all 4 carriers, fast enough chip, half decent camera. And under $250.

I went with the Moto G5 Plus myself. Wife has a a G3. We both came from Lumias (me an 830 and her a 710). We're pretty happy with them for what they are. Missus likes Android better but I definitely miss WM10.
 
defaultluser
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Re: Phone dilemma

Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:07 am

You don't have to choose between "Unsecure Android" and Apple.

The Pixel 2 is a capable phone with stock Android, and costs less Than the Galaxy S9, and has a better camera than any other Android phone. It will receive 3 years of updates from Google. The smaller model also sticks with traditional 16:9, which is why I picked one up

Since Motorola was bought by Lenovo you're lucky to get a single OS update (they used to be pretty good about them), and they've slacked on security patches as well. And LG has never been a good choice for Android, due to their histry of piss-poor build quality.

But with Google finally taking "build-your-own-phone" seriously, they're revitalizing secure Android. And the next-gen Pixe 3 should be announced soon.

https://www.tomsguide.com/us/pixel-3-ru ... 26647.html
 
meerkt
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Re: Phone dilemma

Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:35 am

defaultluser wrote:
The Pixel 2 is a capable phone with stock Android, and costs less Than the Galaxy S9

It's still a very expensive phone (S9 isn't a good benchmark). And there are the other cons mentioned earlier (missing SD, removable battery, headphone jack, along with some other things). It's at least not as huge as many other phones, but it's still big. And the battery capacity could be better.
 
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Re: Phone dilemma

Sat Jul 28, 2018 10:41 am

Yeah, I would gladly trade another millimeter of thickness for better battery capacity. (Speaking from the perspective of an LG G4 owner here, but it seems like most Android phones suffer from sub-par run time.)
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derFunkenstein
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Re: Phone dilemma

Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:06 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Yeah, I would gladly trade another millimeter of thickness for better battery capacity. (Speaking from the perspective of an LG G4 owner here, but it seems like most Android phones suffer from sub-par run time.)

With the Pixel 2 it's vastly improved. The battery in my phone is 10% smaller than the battery in yours (2700 mAh vs 3000 mAh) but it basically always lasts me all day. Unplug when I get up, plug it in when I get back. That includes around 45-50 minutes of Pokemon Go and music in the background (don't judge me; it gets me out of the house and some exercise daily :lol: ), unobstructed mail/social media sync, and a lot of fidgeting throughout the day. I get that everyone uses the phone differently and my results may not fit in your life, but I think Android battery life is one area the has greatly improved over time.

And if you're happy with the performance of your G4 you can get similar performance out of more mundane chipsets these days along with much better battery life still. Snapdragon 653 has 4x A72 and 4x A53 cores should be pretty speedy. Moto G6 has a 3000 mAh battery and Phone Arena shows around a 40% battery life boost. Has a headphone jack and micro SD, too.
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just brew it!
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Re: Phone dilemma

Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:25 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
Yeah, I would gladly trade another millimeter of thickness for better battery capacity. (Speaking from the perspective of an LG G4 owner here, but it seems like most Android phones suffer from sub-par run time.)

With the Pixel 2 it's vastly improved. The battery in my phone is 10% smaller than the battery in yours (2700 mAh vs 3000 mAh) but it basically always lasts me all day. Unplug when I get up, plug it in when I get back. That includes around 45-50 minutes of Pokemon Go and music in the background (don't judge me; it gets me out of the house and some exercise daily :lol: ), unobstructed mail/social media sync, and a lot of fidgeting throughout the day. I get that everyone uses the phone differently and my results may not fit in your life, but I think Android battery life is one area the has greatly improved over time.

I have a long commute (over an hour each way) on public transit. If I surf on the phone the whole way, it is typically down to around half by the time I get to the office. Unless I charge it at work, it is marginal whether it will make it through the day. I just leave it in a wireless charging cradle whenever I'm at my desk, and that takes care of it

derFunkenstein wrote:
And if you're happy with the performance of your G4 you can get similar performance out of more mundane chipsets these days along with much better battery life still. Snapdragon 653 has 4x A72 and 4x A53 cores should be pretty speedy. Moto G6 has a 3000 mAh battery and Phone Arena shows around a 40% battery life boost. Has a headphone jack and micro SD, too.

The only real beef I have with the G4 (other than the battery life) is the Bluetooth glitches (stuttering). And I'm not sure if that's a performance issue, or just something stupid in their Bluetooth hardware/firmware implementation.
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meerkt
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Re: Phone dilemma

Sat Jul 28, 2018 12:31 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
but it basically always lasts me all day.

Why aspire only to "all day"?

And with non-removable batteries there's also battery charge cycles to worry about.

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