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DPete27
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Samsung Graphene Batteries in 2019?

Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:44 am

There's been a lot of buzz in tech news the past couple days that Samsung is on the cusp of releasing phones with graphene batteries in 2019 (hopefully the poster child isn't the Note10 :roll: ) I'm intrigued about the idea of greater power density (as long as manufacturers don't simply use that to make their phones __mm thinner). I could care less about charging from 0-100% in 10-12 minutes though.
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odizzido
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Re: Samsung Graphene Batteries in 2019?

Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:31 pm

I could care less as well. Charging in 10mins would be a handy feature sometimes.
 
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Re: Samsung Graphene Batteries in 2019?

Wed Oct 24, 2018 12:46 pm

Yes, I think we could all care less, but what would this world be if we cared less? A careless place.
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just brew it!
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Re: Samsung Graphene Batteries in 2019?

Wed Oct 24, 2018 1:54 pm

Faster charging implies lower internal resistance, which (on the surface) is a good thing. But it likely also means a lot more potential for 'splody-ness in the event there's an internal short or physical damage to the battery, since it means all of the stored energy can be dumped a lot faster.
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Re: Samsung Graphene Batteries in 2019?

Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:20 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Faster charging implies lower internal resistance, which (on the surface) is a good thing. But it likely also means a lot more potential for 'splody-ness in the event there's an internal short or physical damage to the battery, since it means all of the stored energy can be dumped a lot faster.

Seems appropriate for a Samsung-first release, then!
 
DPete27
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Re: Samsung Graphene Batteries in 2019?

Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:22 pm

odizzido wrote:
I could care less as well. Charging in 10mins would be a handy feature sometimes.

This is how I treat Quick/Rapid/Fast charge in it's current incarnation. My phone gets "trickle" charged 95% of the time by a ye-olde 6W charger. Only in the most dire situations do I plug it into our rapid charger. Of course phone manufacturers are keen to push rapid charging to the internet-crazed masses. Gotta get back on the net quick! Double bonus for frying your battery sooner by rapid charging and requiring the user to buy a new phone since the battery is non-replaceable.

(Yes, I know you can disable rapid charge in phone settings)
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Re: Samsung Graphene Batteries in 2019?

Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:30 pm

Rapid charging isn't the issue. So long as the chemistry and charger are properly built, there should be no issues. Almost all phones these days have rapid charging and the number of issues from the convention are miniscule compared to the number of devices out there. And it's not just about getting "back on the net quick!" Some people NEED their phones to be functional at all times, and quick/rapid charging is a godsend for a ton of people, especially now that most phones don't have removable batteries. We have no home phone (landline). What if my cell phone needs charging for a trip, and it doesn't have fast charging, and an emergency happens that I need to be contacted about?

You shouldn't be afraid of rapid charging. You should be afraid of idiot companies not doing a good job on engineering and QC.
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synthtel2
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Re: Samsung Graphene Batteries in 2019?

Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:36 pm

I charge my phone's battery at 500mA / 2.5W most of the time. If replaceable batteries are a thing of the past, going easy on batteries so they'll actually last a while is even more important.

Any rumors about what the tech actually is? If it's still subject to most of the same pitfalls as 2018 lithium batteries, hopefully whatever the new fanciness is will let it last for more cycles when not charged at ridiculous rates.
 
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Re: Samsung Graphene Batteries in 2019?

Wed Oct 24, 2018 2:54 pm

synthtel2 wrote:
I charge my phone's battery at 500mA / 2.5W most of the time. If replaceable batteries are a thing of the past, going easy on batteries so they'll actually last a while is even more important.

Any rumors about what the tech actually is? If it's still subject to most of the same pitfalls as 2018 lithium batteries, hopefully whatever the new fanciness is will let it last for more cycles when not charged at ridiculous rates.

Good lord how long does it take to charge your phone?

I get that people want their batteries to last as long as possible, but charging your battery with a rapid charger (say ~3A/5or6V) most of the time isn't going to drastically change the lifespan of your phone battery. Getting it way too hot while charging? Sure. Leaving it plugged in while it's at 100 percent (and charging all the way too 100 percent all the time?) for hours and hours and hours? Sure. Discharging all the way to 0 every time? Sure.

Everyone's use cases are different so obviously there are different combinations of chargers and batteries and whatever that work for everyone, but I for one will continue to use my rapid charger happily :)
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Usacomp2k3
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Re: Samsung Graphene Batteries in 2019?

Wed Oct 24, 2018 4:58 pm

Even though it's not user-replaceable, I just factor that worst-case every few years I'll pay them $50 to replace it, which isn't bad at all on a ~$1000 device.
 
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Re: Samsung Graphene Batteries in 2019?

Wed Oct 24, 2018 7:20 pm

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
Even though it's not user-replaceable, I just factor that worst-case every few years I'll pay them $50 to replace it, which isn't bad at all on a ~$1000 device.

It's the "$1000 device" part I have trouble with. I hope I never pay that much for a phone.
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synthtel2
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Re: Samsung Graphene Batteries in 2019?

Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:18 pm

DancinJack wrote:
Good lord how long does it take to charge your phone?

~4 hours probably (it isn't a huge battery). If I drained a significant portion of its battery every time I left my desk that would be a problem, but I don't and it isn't.

DancinJack wrote:
I get that people want their batteries to last as long as possible, but charging your battery with a rapid charger (say ~3A/5or6V) most of the time isn't going to drastically change the lifespan of your phone battery. Getting it way too hot while charging? Sure. Leaving it plugged in while it's at 100 percent (and charging all the way too 100 percent all the time?) for hours and hours and hours? Sure. Discharging all the way to 0 every time? Sure.

3A is at least ~1C on most phone batteries last I knew, which is definitely enough to make a difference in lifespan.

If your Lithium charger isn't properly cutting off charge current when it hits 100%, the battery will make its discomfort a lot more obvious than merely losing capacity quicker. Leaving it plugged in isn't a problem. AFAICT, people only still think of it as a problem because three-quarters of NiMH chargers are junk and do work that way.

I do really wish I could lower the target voltage on every Lithium charge controller I own. We can effectively control the constant current stage by using different power sources, and reducing the current delays the switch to constant voltage by a bit, but the usual voltage limits are way too high for longevity.

just brew it! wrote:
Usacomp2k3 wrote:
Even though it's not user-replaceable, I just factor that worst-case every few years I'll pay them $50 to replace it, which isn't bad at all on a ~$1000 device.

It's the "$1000 device" part I have trouble with. I hope I never pay that much for a phone.

<rant>

I don't even want a phone. I'm always using two-year-old refurb hardware, so I should be getting some serious bang for the buck, yet every time I spend money on anything phone-related it feels like it was a total waste.

This last time, I trusted LineageOS' documentation a little too much when figuring out what to buy and ended up with a hardware variant that isn't even rootable. Motorola has blatant spyware on it I can't get rid of in any way. People seem to think this is normal and acceptable or something. I keep it around for when I need an actual phone (in the old-school sense) and that's about all I trust it with.

The one before it needed a battery replacement and the replacement battery was a couple millimeters too thick and it would reassemble enough to be usable but not quite all the way. This compromised its structural integrity and made the screen very fragile. The cost of repairs quickly exceeded the value of the phone.

The one before that got caught in the blast radius of a malware problem. If you suspect a phone may have been actually compromised, what do you do about it? Damned if I know.

The one before that just wasn't built to last a year without a case (not actually the screen's fault).

The one before that was built like a tank and actually still works fine to this day as far as I know, but 2010 was before touchscreens got good, toasters have a lot of compute power in comparison, and Android 2.3 isn't gonna cut it in the modern world.

I want the equivalent of an old-school Thinkpad for hardware, and to keep things as PC-like as possible on the software side. I might even pay $1000 for such a thing. It has zero showroom value, though, so nobody cares.

</rant>
 
Usacomp2k3
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Re: Samsung Graphene Batteries in 2019?

Thu Oct 25, 2018 6:33 am

just brew it! wrote:
Usacomp2k3 wrote:
Even though it's not user-replaceable, I just factor that worst-case every few years I'll pay them $50 to replace it, which isn't bad at all on a ~$1000 device.

It's the "$1000 device" part I have trouble with. I hope I never pay that much for a phone.

That's a fair point. I use mine as my principle camera for capturing family life so I don't mind spending that every few years. I also don't spend money on computer hardware, so that's my main computing device also.
 
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Re: Samsung Graphene Batteries in 2019?

Thu Oct 25, 2018 8:04 am

So, on this topic of prolonging the battery life, I have enabled the power-saving option on my Galaxy Note8 that caps the SOC at 70% of its performance.

My reasoning is like this, although I'm not sure how well rooted it is in physical reality. Per my reasoning, CPU spikes place a greater & "sharper" draw on a battery, and that can shorten its lifespan. For my use case, more often than not CPU spikes are triggered by system activity (e.g. app updates) than user activity (since I don't game). Rather than allow the system to push a core to 100% and race to idle, I'd rather it is capped at 70% even if it takes a tad longer, since the power draw on the battery is smoothed out.

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