Personal computing discussed

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Buub
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Re: 1.1.1.1 feels like 127.0.0.1?

Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:31 am

DrCR wrote:
They, as a large entity in the internet realm, 'support' all sorts of sites -- from Islamic, to LGBT, to O Centro Espírita Beneficente União do Vegetal, to neo-Nazi/socalistim, to Catholic, to the environmentally negligent, to nature worshipers, to whatever. Them being a neutral party re speech is exactly the position they should take. Are you going to take umbrage with, for example, an ISP providing connectivity to, say, the Iman, Scientologist, Quaker/Friend, lime flavour Budweiser drinker (the horror), or whoever down the street?

My point is simply that just because they provide services to a political party, in your example one we both utterly do not support, is to me a tangential discussion. My concern is more objective re their claims than subjective.

This is exactly how I feel about it. I was going to write something similar, but simply didn't have the time. Thanks for that.

The service should be neutral and apolitical. It simply provides a platform and some pipes. What the customer puts on there, short of something blatantly illegal (and even then, go after the customer, not the provider), shouldn't be of concern to the provider. If it's just something distasteful (for example racist) but clearly not illegal, then people are being hypocrites for even bringing it up. Just because it's distasteful to you doesn't mean it doesn't appeal to someone else. And if it's not illegal, then go all activist on it if you like, but don't involve government regulators.
 
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Re: 1.1.1.1 feels like 127.0.0.1?

Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:22 am

Here are a few things to think about before praising third party DNS servers.

If you are looking for security/privacy, look elsewhere (likely Tor).
Even if your DNS look ups are encrypted, ISPs can simple reverse lookup the IP address you are talking to or setup filters for known IP addresses (facebook/netflix/etc) to figure out which site you're accessing. A lot of these can be done at line speed (I know because I've seen it and to a certain extent, likely implemented tools that enable it). In short, if your IP and destination IP are not encrypted, everyone already knows who you are talking to.

If latency is your concern, there are a number of items to keep in mind.

DNS is usually over UDP. When a DNS server is congested, UDP packets are connectionless and easy to drop. Your computer won't know its request has been dropped until the transaction timer expires and issues a retry or gives up.
Switching to a less congested DNS server can help, but how do you know which DNS server(s) are/aren't congested?
On the flipside though, I would think an ISP's DNS server would be fewer hops to your home than a third party. So latency should be a concern.

DNS over TCP is not much more help though. When you visit a webpage, you are likely trying to load pics/vids/data from multiple domain sources (hence, multiple DNS look ups).
DNS over UDP has the benefit of multiple transactions over the same IP/port pair and the transactions can be serviced in any order.
For DNS over TCP, each connection requires a separate TCP handshake and their own ack messages. Also, a TCP connection enforces ordered delivery, which is not really needed for DNS. So the overhead is greater in that respect as well.
At least with TCP, the DNS servers can reject new connections, so you'd likely know if the server is down or overloaded and then choose a different one. But your latency/throughput will likely be worse with added TCP overhead messages.

With https://1.1.1.1, I'd be interested to know if the connection starts off as HTTP, but then uses the "Upgrade" ability to switch to the DNS protocol (similar to how WebRTC switches an http connection to websocket).
Even with https://1.1.1.1, whether it is using pure DNS or not, there is still TCP overhead and also TLS overhead on top of it, which just dampens things down a bit.

Just some things to think about.
 
LostCat
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Re: 1.1.1.1 feels like 127.0.0.1?

Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:29 am

I only mentioned it because they were getting flak about it for months before it got dealt with IIRC. (So yes, they dealt with it, but not mentioning how long it took is some revisionist history BS.) That entire discussion (including whether or not they should) is for another topic IMO.

So, as I said, I can only assume they're doing this just to drum up business by making themselves look good. I can't honestly see the need, but I'm sure someone does.
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Glorious
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Re: 1.1.1.1 feels like 127.0.0.1?

Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:35 am

LostCat wrote:
I only mentioned it because they were getting flak about it for months before it got dealt with IIRC. (So yes, they dealt with it, but not mentioning how long it took is some revisionist history BS.) That entire discussion (including whether or not they should) is for another topic IMO.


Hahah, it's for "another topic?" Really?

Then why did you post that it was related to this one?

And why do you keep posting about this, saying "you don't care" while you start weighing in about "historical revisionism" and other tid-bits of narrative-housekeeping?

I mean, the controversy was a year ago. What does it have to do with this?

LostCat wrote:
So, as I said, I can only assume they're doing this just to drum up business by making themselves look good. I can't honestly see the need, but I'm sure someone does.


Yes, you have a hobby-horse and you assume everything else in the universe relates to that.

Maybe, just maybe, it doesn't?
 
LostCat
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Re: 1.1.1.1 feels like 127.0.0.1?

Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:36 am

Glorious wrote:
[Yes, you have a hobby-horse and you assume everything else in the universe relates to that.

Maybe, just maybe, it doesn't?

I love tech? Really? Fascinating. I didn't know.
Meow.
 
Glorious
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Re: 1.1.1.1 feels like 127.0.0.1?

Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:41 am

LostCat wrote:
I love tech? Really? Fascinating. I didn't know.


I didn't either.

You keep talking about history (literally including accusations that I'm engaging in "revisionism" lolwtf) and, you know, nazis.

...Not hearing a lot about "tech".
 
LostCat
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Re: 1.1.1.1 feels like 127.0.0.1?

Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:51 am

Glorious wrote:
...Not hearing a lot about "tech".

Congrats, you're not hearing a lot about tech since you went hostile and off topic.

I was discussing the service and the company providing it.
Meow.
 
Glorious
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Re: 1.1.1.1 feels like 127.0.0.1?

Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:55 am

LostCat wrote:
Congrats, you're not hearing a lot about tech since you went off topic.


Which is that you are completely correct to surmise the political reasons for their decisions, but that I am incorrect to dispute them?

How does that even make sense?

LostCat wrote:
I was discussing the service and the company providing it.


As was I, but that's not OK...

...because why?

Especially when you starting making really strange statements like my cited argument was "historical revisionism"

UH... what?
 
notfred
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Re: 1.1.1.1 feels like 127.0.0.1?

Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:13 pm

And we are done in this thread. Too much personal sniping and not enough discussing of the actual topic.

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