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Pville_Piper
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NETGEAR and the R6700 Nighthawk - Buyer beware

Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:50 pm

So, my old router (DGL-5500) is giving me some issues, so I decided it was time to upgrade. For some reason, the time gets off and this screws up the schedules I setup to keep the grandkids off the internet at night and it seemed to be getting worse with disconnects so I decided to look around and see what was available that I could get quick and cheap. As I was heading out of town I saw the R6700 Nighthawk from NETGEAR.

I got home and started to set it up and I must say I'm really disappointed in this router. First off, it says it's Win10 compatible but everything you want to do it, the interface will want you to download an app for your iphone or android device. I have a very nice computer, I WANT TO USE THIS NOT MY DAM PHONE!

Secondly, the very simple thing of blocking devices based on a schedule using the MAC address is impossible to do without getting an app and paying $4.99 a month for the “privilege” of doing what my other router did without an app or service. My grandchildren will stay up all night if they have access to the internet, not being able to block that access, without paying for services I don’t need or want means this router is total garbage.

I’m going to try an return it but I'm not sure Amazon will take it back, either way will not buy another NETGEAR product. I'm sick of every time I buy something I have to pay for a service.

The interface and trying to get into the router up was a real pain to do, the documentation that came with the router didn't even give the IP address of the of the access page. I thought the D Link GUI was bad on my old router... This is a real POS.

I know, I'm venting, sorry, but this just really ticks me off. I just can't use something I paid $100 bucks for.
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Re: NETGEAR and the R6700 Nighthawk - Buyer beware

Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:58 pm

Are there any firmware updates for the Dlink? I have two access points from them from 2011 and they had the time problem for many years. It was finally fixed when Dlink HAD to issue a firmware update because the year field was unable to go past a recent year. I forget which year it was now that it’s fixed, but it was unthinkable for a device released in 2011.
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Re: NETGEAR and the R6700 Nighthawk - Buyer beware

Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:06 pm

No, I checked and it has the most current one, they stopped a while back. I hated to get another router as this one really has lasted the longest of any I've owned. The time problem was actually the least of my worries. The disconnects were getting frequent.
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Re: NETGEAR and the R6700 Nighthawk - Buyer beware

Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:34 pm

MOSFET wrote:
Are there any firmware updates for the Dlink? I have two access points from them from 2011 and they had the time problem for many years. It was finally fixed when Dlink HAD to issue a firmware update because the year field was unable to go past a recent year. I forget which year it was now that it’s fixed, but it was unthinkable for a device released in 2011.

DGL-5500 was abandoned so long ago it's vulnerable to several major exploits at this point. It was pretty much my "why I'll never trust D-Link again" moment.

OpenWRT does support it though.

I don't mind needing a phone app to manage a device (as I'm on Google Wifi these days,) but paying for it? Really. That's new.

I'm not sure what Netgears issue is but I've never met anyone who actually liked their kit.
Last edited by LostCat on Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NETGEAR and the R6700 Nighthawk - Buyer beware

Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:40 pm

I find this veryyyyyyy strange. I've owned multiple Netgear routers and never have I had these issues. The internet connection I'm using at this very second is through a R7800. Have you used the web portal at 192.168.1.1/192.168.0.1?

I guess I have never had to use this "Genie" app before. There seems to be a PC download though, if that helps you at all.

http://updates1.netgear.com/netgeargeni ... nstall.exe
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Re: NETGEAR and the R6700 Nighthawk - Buyer beware

Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:46 pm

I have an R6700 and have none of the issues you describe. I don’t use the MAC filter feature you are describing, but I certainly have never configured it any other way than through the website on my PC. I have a USB HD for a super simple media server connected to it and it routes on average 6-8 wireless devices at a time and three Ethernet gigabit LAN ports and I’m on fiber with a 1000/1000Mbps connection and I’ve restarted it maybe 2-4 times while trouble shooting in maybe a year and a half of uptime.
 
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Re: NETGEAR and the R6700 Nighthawk - Buyer beware

Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:52 am

DancinJack wrote:
Have you used the web portal at 192.168.1.1/192.168.0.1?


I used IP Config to figure out the address, it's just odd that they don't offer in the documentation. They seem to rely on the portal working properly. It's just confusing and typing 192.168.1.1 brings up a Microsoft interface rather than a GUI. If you don't have the internet working the default way to get online with unit gets quite confusing. As bad as the D Link interface was, I really don't like this at all.

DancinJack wrote:
I guess I have never had to use this "Genie" app before. There seems to be a PC download though, if that helps you at all.

http://updates1.netgear.com/netgeargeni ... nstall.exe


I had installed that already. It is just what it says, a Genie and it really doesn't access the full controls of the router. They partnered with Disney (why?) to create parental controls, which is the only way to add schedules. The scheduling available in the base unit will shut off the entire Wi-Fi radio only and you can't even have 2 different schedules for say the weekend and weeknights.

jdevers wrote:
I have an R6700 and have none of the issues you describe. I don’t use the MAC filter feature you are describing, but I certainly have never configured it any other way than through the website on my PC. I have a USB HD for a super simple media server connected to it and it routes on average 6-8 wireless devices at a time and three Ethernet gigabit LAN ports and I’m on fiber with a 1000/1000Mbps connection and I’ve restarted it maybe 2-4 times while trouble shooting in maybe a year and a half of uptime.


I don't know what you are talking about. The performance of the router is not in question at this time and I have no issues related to that. What I'm upset about is the "Smart" features that don't do much without an app or a paid service. On my D Link router, you could set schedules based on the mac address. This is really handy to prevent the grandkids from staying up all night playing on the tablets/PS4. I have 2 schedules, one for weeknights and one for weekends that allowed them to stay up a little longer.

I have partially gotten around this with the Kindles because they have excellent parental controls and will turn off based on time alone. The iPad nor the PS4 doesn't seem to have any way to do this. I got a bit frustrated last night when I am looking this stuff up and saw people saying things like "Well, the PS4 doesn't promote bad parenting, teach your kids how to obey". Yeah, right. They are kids, and not bad ones, but unfortunately their mother never taught them properly and let them pretty much do what they want to. I've had them for almost 2 years and I am still trying to get them to do basic things like turning off lights...
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Re: NETGEAR and the R6700 Nighthawk - Buyer beware

Mon Sep 24, 2018 9:16 am

If you want real control, real security and advanced functions: roll your own router and split off the wireless to something like unifi, then never look back.

All consumer routers are junk, you can partially bandaid some of them with custom firmware but even then they are still anemic.
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Re: NETGEAR and the R6700 Nighthawk - Buyer beware

Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:18 am

You would think there was a reasonable market for higher-end at home routers + NAS. Surprised at the load of junk out there. I have a D7000 +DSL at home, and if anyone uploads anything large in the house, it bogs the connection down to the point nobody can use it, and things disconnect and time out. It is junk for that reason.

It is far better than the router that came with Frontier DSL service as that wouldn't even pass IPv6 packets, so no Windows networking with that piece of garbage.
 
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Re: NETGEAR and the R6700 Nighthawk - Buyer beware

Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:41 am

What drove me over the edge was that I had a D-Link router that was still being sold and a vulnerability came out that I wanted to update. Unfortunately for me the version of hardware I had was no longer supported. Then I bought a router that could use DD-WRT. Well, it was crap. Regardless of what firmware, manufacture, DD-WRT, Tomato, etc, it just kept losing connections and rebooting. I now have a PFSense box and a Ubiquiti AP. Stability is far superior. The router is significantly faster with more options. If I could go back years ago I'd change how I did it (hardware choices) but I'd still do it again.
Last edited by DragonDaddyBear on Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: NETGEAR and the R6700 Nighthawk - Buyer beware

Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:26 pm

liquidsquid wrote:
You would think there was a reasonable market for higher-end at home routers + NAS.

There is: Ubiquiti.
 
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Re: NETGEAR and the R6700 Nighthawk - Buyer beware

Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:14 pm

Ubiquiti is "entry" level enterprise gear. It is not something the typical user wanting "high end" gear should consider. There is definitely a market niche for high end gear that is well supported, has advanced features, and is easy to use. I doubt any manufacture will come through, though, since most of us wanting that are capable of rolling Ubiquiti and a router.
 
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Re: NETGEAR and the R6700 Nighthawk - Buyer beware

Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:28 pm

I don't recall any bloat like you describe the last time I setup an R6700-- granted this was many years ago.

If you can't return it, can you reflash it to Kong DD-WRT or something similar?

The R7800 and several other Netgear products have been excellent and no bloat like you're describing, but then I usually reflash everything to Voxel, although to be fair they all worked out of the box too? (this goes back to the WNDR3700!)
 
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Re: NETGEAR and the R6700 Nighthawk - Buyer beware

Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:29 pm

DragonDaddyBear wrote:
Ubiquiti is "entry" level enterprise gear. It is not something the typical user wanting "high end" gear should consider. There is definitely a market niche for high end gear that is well supported, has advanced features, and is easy to use. I doubt any manufacture will come through, though, since most of us wanting that are capable of rolling Ubiquiti and a router.

You're not contradicting him, you're agreeing and providing the supporting evidence :wink:

An EdgeRouter Lite and a Unifi UAP cost less and do more than some of the highest-end "SoHo" routers currently on the market and are no more effort to configure, really. About the only thing they don't do is arrive combined into a single conversation-piece chassis that scares dogs and small children.
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Re: NETGEAR and the R6700 Nighthawk - Buyer beware

Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:47 pm

ludi wrote:
About the only thing they don't do is arrive combined into a single conversation-piece chassis that scares dogs and small children.


I actually laughed at that.

My point is I don't think most people can handle the kind of management/setup of Ubiquiti. If I could do it again the EdgeRouter is probably the way I'd go. All in it's really not that expensive compared to the face-eating monstrosities that are available.
 
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Re: NETGEAR and the R6700 Nighthawk - Buyer beware

Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:58 pm

DragonDaddyBear wrote:
ludi wrote:
About the only thing they don't do is arrive combined into a single conversation-piece chassis that scares dogs and small children.


I actually laughed at that.

My point is I don't think most people can handle the kind of management/setup of Ubiquiti. If I could do it again the EdgeRouter is probably the way I'd go. All in it's really not that expensive compared to the face-eating monstrosities that are available.

Have you used their products lately? it's not all that bad anymore. If you can use the "advanced" section of a Netgear product then you can use Ubiquiti's stuff without question.
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Re: NETGEAR and the R6700 Nighthawk - Buyer beware

Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:00 pm

DragonDaddyBear wrote:
Ubiquiti is "entry" level enterprise gear. It is not something the typical user wanting "high end" gear should consider. There is definitely a market niche for high end gear that is well supported, has advanced features, and is easy to use. I doubt any manufacture will come through, though, since most of us wanting that are capable of rolling Ubiquiti and a router.

Are you saying the EdgeRouter sereis it is too advanced? The Amplifi or the USG line are about as dumbed-down to configure as any consumer device.
 
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Re: NETGEAR and the R6700 Nighthawk - Buyer beware

Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:35 pm

I get it, sure. I've seen plenty of interfaces. My point is more that most consumers do not understand that a switch != router != AP. That concept is pretty advanced for most uses. Seeking high end/quality doesn't imply they know what they are doing in the same way buying a McLaren didn't mean your know how to drive fast. They do have a consumer line but SmallNetBuilder has had higher performers. I do find the Ubiquiti AP management interface pretty easy to use but I don't think I'm a good judge of what most users are capable of.

I think I should clarify that when I say high end I am thinking of something built better, supported longer, and the latest features thanks are easier too use. More like a Lexus vs Toyota.
 
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Re: NETGEAR and the R6700 Nighthawk - Buyer beware

Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:38 pm

Just bought an Asus RT-AC86U. It's fantastic. Buy one.
 
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Re: NETGEAR and the R6700 Nighthawk - Buyer beware

Mon Sep 24, 2018 6:09 pm

I have an RT-AC66U which has been pretty good so far. I don't use it for much aside from wifi these days, but I've got no complaints.
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Re: NETGEAR and the R6700 Nighthawk - Buyer beware

Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:17 am

Bauxite wrote:
If you want real control, real security and advanced functions: roll your own router and split off the wireless to something like unifi, then never look back.

All consumer routers are junk, you can partially bandaid some of them with custom firmware but even then they are still anemic.


That is exactly what I did and recommend. The prices are comparable with high-end consumer stuff but the configurability and robustness is at another level. I'm using ubiquiti, which is relatively affordable and am very happy with it.
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Re: NETGEAR and the R6700 Nighthawk - Buyer beware

Sun Dec 09, 2018 6:08 pm

Didn't have any issue setting up an Edgerouter 4, UAP-AC-Pro, and for a while, the POE 8-port switch, but given the performance limitations of the Unifi Gateway and lack of integration of other lines, it's hard to recommend Ubiquiti.

It will work!

It will just be fragmentedish. Really wish they'd put out an EdgeMax option for the Unifi APs.

Though to the point, setting up the EdgeRouter 4 is about the same as any consumer device, with exception of the previously noted misconception that it's not a switch and not an access point.

In that regard, decent consumer devices do fit the bill a bit better- they provide all three functions in a coherent unit- and if you're looking toward using a 1Gbps line, they're generally a better deal.

If you're looking to do 1Gbps with stuff like QoS and IPS, well...
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Re: NETGEAR and the R6700 Nighthawk - Buyer beware

Sun Dec 09, 2018 7:15 pm

Airmantharp wrote:
Didn't have any issue setting up an Edgerouter 4, UAP-AC-Pro, and for a while, the POE 8-port switch, but given the performance limitations of the Unifi Gateway and lack of integration of other lines, it's hard to recommend Ubiquiti.

I’m confused, where Does the USG come into play?
 
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Re: NETGEAR and the R6700 Nighthawk - Buyer beware

Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:18 pm

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
Airmantharp wrote:
Didn't have any issue setting up an Edgerouter 4, UAP-AC-Pro, and for a while, the POE 8-port switch, but given the performance limitations of the Unifi Gateway and lack of integration of other lines, it's hard to recommend Ubiquiti.

I’m confused, where Does the USG come into play?


Over the Edgerouter line, the USG has IPS (Suricata); however, it is limited to under 200Mbps at the very best. The Edgerouters can do QoS but cannot at 1Gbps.

Not sure about IPS, but consumer devices generally have QoS features that are tailored to home use and may allow those features to run up to 1Gbps. Generally with the prosumer stuff, the hardware isn't much special, it's the software. Actually doing these things in a home environment isn't that hard, it's just not something that prosumer vendors have targeted.
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Re: NETGEAR and the R6700 Nighthawk - Buyer beware

Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:44 am

While we're on the topic of USG (but completely unrelated to Netgear) I have the little 3-port USG, and I've been using IPS for a few months. My Comcast cable is limited at 130 Mbps down and I get between 90 and 110 with IPS on. Good enough for me to leave it on. If I had the 250M package or up, I would either step up the USG or not use its IPS. Or go back to my own hardware.
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Re: NETGEAR and the R6700 Nighthawk - Buyer beware

Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:08 am

Airmantharp wrote:
Usacomp2k3 wrote:
Airmantharp wrote:
Didn't have any issue setting up an Edgerouter 4, UAP-AC-Pro, and for a while, the POE 8-port switch, but given the performance limitations of the Unifi Gateway and lack of integration of other lines, it's hard to recommend Ubiquiti.

I’m confused, where Does the USG come into play?


Over the Edgerouter line, the USG has IPS (Suricata); however, it is limited to under 200Mbps at the very best. The Edgerouters can do QoS but cannot at 1Gbps.

Not sure about IPS, but consumer devices generally have QoS features that are tailored to home use and may allow those features to run up to 1Gbps. Generally with the prosumer stuff, the hardware isn't much special, it's the software. Actually doing these things in a home environment isn't that hard, it's just not something that prosumer vendors have targeted.

I get that, but your statement was that you sett up 3 devices and then wouldn't recommend Ubiquiti due to a 4th device that wasn't involved in your setup. The logic didn't flow.
Now if the edgerouter was a fall-back plan due to your comments about IPS on the USG line, I get that, but you didn't say that initially. I personally never use IPS, so no biggie to me.
 
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Re: NETGEAR and the R6700 Nighthawk - Buyer beware

Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:09 pm

I've been very happy with my NETGEAR Nighthawk
 
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Re: NETGEAR and the R6700 Nighthawk - Buyer beware

Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:20 am

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
I get that, but your statement was that you sett up 3 devices and then wouldn't recommend Ubiquiti due to a 4th device that wasn't involved in your setup. The logic didn't flow.
Now if the edgerouter was a fall-back plan due to your comments about IPS on the USG line, I get that, but you didn't say that initially. I personally never use IPS, so no biggie to me.


Sorry, that thoughtline was a bit fragmented between 'what I did' and 'what I recommend'.

The USG line is feature-filled, but all but the top-end 10Gbps model is underpowered, outdated hardware. The Edgerouter 4/6/12 are more powerful, but exclude IPS, and are still not capable of doing QoS at 1Gbps- and only the ER12 includes a switch chip. That's important to know. And there are other differences, like Unifi devices not including built-in configuration pages for standalone usage and Unifi switches providing less layer 3 functionality than Edgemax switches.

And that's just two of Ubuiquiti's lines...

I bring it up mostly to show that while their products will absolutely get the job done, unless your purpose is to learn, they're probably not the best solution. You can get TP-Link APs for less, for example, and hook those up to a home router for more coverage. Or a mesh system, etc.
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Re: NETGEAR and the R6700 Nighthawk - Buyer beware

Wed Dec 12, 2018 1:33 pm

Your points are all valid in that context. Thanks for elaborating.

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