Personal computing discussed

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anotherengineer
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ode to an ipad mini

Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:49 pm

So, wife thought it would be good to get an ipad mini for daughter for Christmas..............etc. etc. all set up, and then someone puts in/messes up password and gets disabled.

Not the 3 tries, not a try again later, just disabled and have a nice day.
Well finally got around to it, and wow, kind of a painful process. Have to download and install itunes, which I don't have or use.

Perfect downloading.

Maybe Apple should put in a 3 strikes password before disabling the device. Maybe I shouldn't bother to put one on this time.

Time to uninstall that waste of space itunes from my ssd now.

Future apple purchases in me or my family's future.................Zero.

End rant.
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Re: ode to an ipad mini

Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:27 pm

:( SORRY BRO.
 
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Re: ode to an ipad mini

Wed Feb 18, 2015 12:54 pm

Apple is hyper-aggressive with their kill switches. I've had an iPhone for about 3 weeks now and I've already had to reset it once because my daughter's fingerprint wasn't recognized and she failed Touch ID and PIN attempts often enough to wipe it. Yeah, no. Kid, you're not allowed to use my phone.

OTOH this experience shows me that if my phone gets actually stolen (not fake stolen by my 6-year-old) that my stuff is secure. I took it as a learning experience, because I could just restore a backup from iCloud, but in the end I think it's actually a pretty great feature.
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anotherengineer
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Re: ode to an ipad mini

Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:45 pm

How is your stuff secure?

Secure in that apple deletes it?

I got an error back and it had to update ios before it could do anything and it wiped it clean like a format.

But I mean if someone stole it, they just plug it into their pc and reset it with itunes, and they have a free, new to them usable idevice.

Maybe they have changed some things with the updated ios, I have not had a chance to check it out again yet.
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Re: ode to an ipad mini

Wed Feb 18, 2015 1:48 pm

anotherengineer wrote:
Maybe they have changed some things with the updated ios, I have not had a chance to check it out again yet.


If you report it stolen to Apple the device is permanently disabled. I find it funny that you are miffed that the device did exactly what it is designed to do to keep your data safe from prying eyes.
 
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Re: ode to an ipad mini

Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:04 pm

Deanjo wrote:
anotherengineer wrote:
Maybe they have changed some things with the updated ios, I have not had a chance to check it out again yet.


If you report it stolen to Apple the device is permanently disabled. I find it funny that you are miffed that the device did exactly what it is designed to do to keep your data safe from prying eyes.

Yeah, pretty much this. Your stuff is secure in that if you can't have it, nobody can. Anything else is less secure in an unrecoverable scenario. It's better than you fail enough and it gets wiped than someone eventually goes through every permutation and gets your stuff. Didn't realize it was so hard for some folks to understand.
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Re: ode to an ipad mini

Wed Feb 18, 2015 2:20 pm

Deanjo wrote:
anotherengineer wrote:
Maybe they have changed some things with the updated ios, I have not had a chance to check it out again yet.


If you report it stolen to Apple the device is permanently disabled. I find it funny that you are miffed that the device did exactly what it is designed to do to keep your data safe from prying eyes.

Also - if you've ever used MDM with iPads, if someone resets that iPad, it'll phone home during setup and hop right back into your MDM, which is kinda cool (when the MDM is behaving, that is). All iTunes really does is let you get around the lock screen password, which I've had to do before when students returned iPads at the end of the year without removing their password. (Most don't do that, but you do get a few rascals. And then you get a few that enabled iCloud lock as well, so we had to password reset the apple account through their school issued email to undo it.)
 
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Re: ode to an ipad mini

Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:11 pm

anotherengineer wrote:
So, wife thought it would be good to get an ipad mini for daughter for Christmas..............etc. etc. all set up, and then someone puts in/messes up password and gets disabled.

Not the 3 tries, not a try again later, just disabled and have a nice day.
Well finally got around to it, and wow, kind of a painful process. Have to download and install itunes, which I don't have or use.

Perfect downloading.

Maybe Apple should put in a 3 strikes password before disabling the device. Maybe I shouldn't bother to put one on this time.

I think you might have a different take if you had a device lost or stolen with lots of personal or sensitive information on it. Total wipe. I can restore the replacement from the cloud.

For what it's worth, I've had to do the full wipe/restore on my wife's old iPad when we couldn't remember the pass code (she had replaced it and we dragged our feet on selling the old one). It was a bit involved but relatively painless.
 
anotherengineer
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Re: ode to an ipad mini

Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:20 pm

If you have or store sensitive info on it and it gets stolen, then I can understand that aspect of it.

What I can't is when you put in your pass, and typo it, it just locks you out altogether. Be nice if at least got the 3 strikes before permanently getting locked out.

Picture it was your desktop, and you typo'd your pass, and got locked out and denied first shot, and you had to format. Well all your info is now gone and it wasn't stolen. I have typo'd my 10+ key password at work here often, especially since company policy is change it every 3 months.

Maybe more important on a phone, but on a tablet, sheesh.
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Re: ode to an ipad mini

Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:21 pm

anotherengineer wrote:


[user doesn't know how device works, does something incorrect, device responds appropriately, user blames device]

End rant.
 
cynan
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Re: ode to an ipad mini

Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:28 pm

If you aren't enamored with the prospect of dealing with iTunes, then iDevices are probably not for you anyway. The iOS usage model is heavily centered around iTunes (though perhaps less and less so with the growing dependence on the cloud). All firmware updates are managed through iTunes and it's pretty much the only way to transfer files between a PC and the device (at least if it isn't jail broken). Dependence on software such as iTunes to reset the password is therefore a bit more excusable for an iDevice than, say, for an Android.

But yeah, I hate the necessity of iTunes for the local transferring of files - and only files, no less, that Apple deems you should be putting on their device. A major reason why I personal shy away from Apple mobile devices, at least historically.
 
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Re: ode to an ipad mini

Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:29 pm

anotherengineer - how is it supposed to know the difference between a typo and the almost-lucky guess of a stranger who absconded with your device? If it's not important on a tablet, why is there a passcode on it in the first place? (btw I don't use a passcode on my tablet because it doesn't leave the house, so I agree, it's not as important on a tablet)

I've been using iTunes - even on Windows - for about 10 years now. I guess I don't get the hate. It does a nice job of what it's supposed to do.
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Re: ode to an ipad mini

Wed Feb 18, 2015 3:52 pm

Also relevant - what password are you failing for "no three strikes?" You can whiff on your pin to log in several times...
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anotherengineer
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Re: ode to an ipad mini

Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:12 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
anotherengineer - how is it supposed to know the difference between a typo and the almost-lucky guess of a stranger who absconded with your device? If it's not important on a tablet, why is there a passcode on it in the first place? (btw I don't use a passcode on my tablet because it doesn't leave the house, so I agree, it's not as important on a tablet)

I've been using iTunes - even on Windows - for about 10 years now. I guess I don't get the hate. It does a nice job of what it's supposed to do.



Exactly why there is no long a pin on it.

No hate, just not impressed that one slip results in a brick, that's all.
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Re: ode to an ipad mini

Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:13 pm

Could it be as simple as the wife tried 2 times already unsuccessfully, then handed it to you, and you entered it wrong for the last time, then bam!? :o

Accidents do happen...
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anotherengineer
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Re: ode to an ipad mini

Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:15 pm

pikaporeon wrote:
Also relevant - what password are you failing for "no three strikes?" You can whiff on your pin to log in several times...



No idea what that is supposed to mean?

Here, watch this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gv0H-vPoDc
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anotherengineer
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Re: ode to an ipad mini

Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:19 pm

Flying Fox wrote:
Could it be as simple as the wife tried 2 times already unsuccessfully, then handed it to you, and you entered it wrong for the last time, then bam!? :o

Accidents do happen...


Possibly, I just seen it entered once and completely locked out. Just thought that was weird. The first idevice, so I assumed that's they way they are.

I don't know what version of ios came on it, maybe 7? Maybe it was a bug, I don't know.
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Re: ode to an ipad mini

Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:35 pm

I don't know Apple products very well, but I'd be pissed if all my data was erased after the first failed attempt as well. As others have mentioned, a family member must have had a couple failed attempts prior to yours, because there would be an uproar if users were regularly locked out after 1 failed attempt.

Either way, when the user is on their last remaining attempt, Apple should put a huge red warning on the screen informing the user that all data will be erased.
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Re: ode to an ipad mini

Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:16 pm

anotherengineer wrote:
If you have or store sensitive info on it and it gets stolen, then I can understand that aspect of it.


So the iPad is supposed to analyze your data and determine that it's sensitive now too? Seriously, if you are not worried about people poking around on your iPad then just don't enable the lock, that's why you can disable it!
 
anotherengineer
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Re: ode to an ipad mini

Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:19 pm

Deanjo wrote:
anotherengineer wrote:
If you have or store sensitive info on it and it gets stolen, then I can understand that aspect of it.


So the iPad is supposed to analyze your data and determine that it's sensitive now too? Seriously, if you are not worried about people poking around on your iPad then just don't enable the lock, that's why you can disable it!



See several post above. After the update/format, no more pin/pass. Problem solved.
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Re: ode to an ipad mini

Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:59 pm

cynan wrote:
If you aren't enamored with the prospect of dealing with iTunes, then iDevices are probably not for you anyway. The iOS usage model is heavily centered around iTunes (though perhaps less and less so with the growing dependence on the cloud). All firmware updates are managed through iTunes and it's pretty much the only way to transfer files between a PC and the device (at least if it isn't jail broken). Dependence on software such as iTunes to reset the password is therefore a bit more excusable for an iDevice than, say, for an Android.

But yeah, I hate the necessity of iTunes for the local transferring of files - and only files, no less, that Apple deems you should be putting on their device. A major reason why I personal shy away from Apple mobile devices, at least historically.

I don't even have iTunes installed - my iPad is mainly used for web browsing and Spotify anyway, so no need to sync things locally. That said, for file transfers - I tried downloading an EXE to the iPad (cause why not), and it basically said wtf is this, want to put this on Dropbox or Google Drive? No way to download it locally.
 
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Re: ode to an ipad mini

Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:45 pm

Wow! Soooo glad I don't use Apple products. What an irritation! (´д⊂)

This whole thread has been fanboys shouting "but that's how it's supposed to work!" as if that has any relevance to anything. Who cares? That may be intended functionality, but that doesn't make it any less brain dead. Who the hell would put sensitive data on an ipad anyway?ヽ(´ー`)ノ

Yet another Apple "feature" the cultists spin as a good thing while normal people scratch their heads in disbelief. Σ(´∀`;)
 
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Re: ode to an ipad mini

Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:57 am

Deanjo wrote:
anotherengineer wrote:
Maybe they have changed some things with the updated ios, I have not had a chance to check it out again yet.


If you report it stolen to Apple the device is permanently disabled. I find it funny that you are miffed that the device did exactly what it is designed to do to keep your data safe from prying eyes.

ohhh that's why all those celebs had nude pics stolen! cause it just works for security!
what percent of market share does apple need to take before we stop calling people cultists? I don't love iOS or OSX much, but "regular people" certainly do.
 
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Re: ode to an ipad mini

Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:28 am

auxy wrote:
Wow! Soooo glad I don't use Apple products. What an irritation! (´д⊂)

This whole thread has been fanboys shouting "but that's how it's supposed to work!" as if that has any relevance to anything. Who cares? That may be intended functionality, but that doesn't make it any less brain dead. Who the hell would put sensitive data on an ipad anyway?ヽ(´ー`)ノ

Yet another Apple "feature" the cultists spin as a good thing while normal people scratch their heads in disbelief. Σ(´∀`;)

This isn't even "spin" this is him describing behavior that doesn't actually exist. I just intentionally failed my PIN 5 times without any wiping or similar.

A quick google indicates you need to fail 6 consecutive times for a one minute lockout, and only further subsequent mistakes will lead to an infinite (or in the display's case, a 22 million minute) disable period
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Re: ode to an ipad mini

Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:29 am

No, it'll certainly do it depending on your settings. Here's where it got added to iPhone OS 2.x (before there was even an iOS name)

http://www.macrumors.com/2008/09/11/iph ... -failures/

on my iPhone running 8.1.3 on the Touch ID & Passwords screen there's an option at the bottom to wipe data after 10 failed attempts. It's actually off, apparently by default. So it certainly could have done that. If the kid failed multiple attempts before asking for help, what happened to anotherengineer is possible *and* it's by design *and* it can be disabled. All those *and* statements mean it's just fine. Don't like it? Don't use it.

BTW I really do like iOS over my Galaxy S4 and over the Lumia 928 I bought for cheap hoping to get away from TouchWiz sooner than I did. I consider myself normal. :D
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Re: ode to an ipad mini

Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:35 am

sweatshopking wrote:

ohhh that's why all those celebs had nude pics stolen! cause it just works for security!
what percent of market share does apple need to take before we stop calling people cultists? I don't love iOS or OSX much, but "regular people" certainly do.


Wow, way to completely miss the mark. Those photos came from the hacked iCloud account.

I suppose all those hacked hacked hotmail accounts are a flaw in windows?
 
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Re: ode to an ipad mini

Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:38 am

pikaporeon wrote:
A quick google indicates you need to fail 6 consecutive times for a one minute lockout, and only further subsequent mistakes will lead to an infinite (or in the display's case, a 22 million minute) disable period


This. However after multiple failed 6 attempts and timeouts will result in a locking.
 
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Re: ode to an ipad mini

Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:46 am

Deanjo wrote:
sweatshopking wrote:

ohhh that's why all those celebs had nude pics stolen! cause it just works for security!
what percent of market share does apple need to take before we stop calling people cultists? I don't love iOS or OSX much, but "regular people" certainly do.


Wow, way to completely miss the mark. Those photos came from the hacked iCloud account.

I suppose all those hacked hacked hotmail accounts are a flaw in windows?

they came from hacked phone backups stored on icloud.
 
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Re: ode to an ipad mini

Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:50 am

The iCloud accounts weren't "hacked", they had passwords stolen and no 2FA enabled. What do you expect would happen?
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Re: ode to an ipad mini

Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:02 pm

sweatshopking wrote:
they came from hacked phone backups stored on icloud.


Umm no it wasn't, it was from using a python script to guess the top 500 most common passwords approved by Apple in order to try and gain access to user accounts. Apple was not locking people out after so many failed login attempts on their iCloud web account. Once in, any data that they synced was accessible including iClouds photo stream.

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