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Ok, so Apple Music launced here a few days ago and I thought I would give it a try. There's a free 90 trial, so why not. Now, I've been using iTunes to manage my extensive library for years (some 77GB of music) and sync selected playlists to my iPhone. It's always worked ok for the most part.

But since using Apple Music, I'm deeply frustrated with several issues I can't seem to overcome. Other issues are just general observations, and has anyone had any luck fixing some of these things:

- You can no longer sync playlists on your PC to the iPhone's internal storage anymore.
- It enables iTunes Match by default, and has duplicated thousands of DRM free music with iTunes M4P files locally to the PC, and at a lower quality.
- On the iPhone, it now always wants to go online over 3G/4G to stream songs when the original is saved on the device via iTunes.
- Music I don't own, and is streamed from Apple Music can be saved locally to the phone. Irritatingly, it's also then downloaded to the PC and doesn't need to be as it's not data capped like my mobile is.
- Hundreds of songs have the incorrect track / album data / album art since I enabled Apple Music.
- It's impossible to tell what songs are saved on your PC, on the Phone or are totally in the cloud.

I could go on, but those are the main ones.

Please tell me there's a fix to syncing playlists locally like you've always been able to. I'm not paying out a lot of extra money in mobile data to stream my content over the air when it used to be saved locally no problem.

Have I mentioned lately how much I love my Sansa Clip+ with Rockbox firmware? (Yeah, kind of old-school... but I don't need to worry about any of the sort of crap you're bitching about...)

just brew it! wrote:

Have I mentioned lately how much I love my Sansa Clip+ with Rockbox firmware? (Yeah, kind of old-school... but I don't need to worry about any of the sort of crap you're bitching about...)

A very good point. I'm not very pro Apple at the best of times, and this latest wave of "even less control over your stuff than you had before" is really starting to annoy me. I bought a 64GB version of my iPhone for a reason, so at least let me fill it.

At this point I minimize my engagement with iTunes and Apple's homegrown music apps altogether. CDs are ripped using foobar2000, ID3 tags are massaged into shape afterward there, and I use iTunes to sync to my iPhone while holding my nose. The default music player's nothing special and keeps trying to prod me into using Apple Music, so I've placed it (along with other unremovable apps) into a folder called Crap that lives in its own isolated screen away from what I use. For local playback I just use Amazon Music; for streaming there's Spotify, Pandora, and occasionally Amazon Music. This is the least worst config I've devised so far. For being so huge Apple gets away with a lot of casually terrible software practices.

Maybe the local downloads are on a per song or album basis? I use Google's Music service and they provide a pin button that downloads the album locally to the device. I'm not sure about playlists, I kind of despise playlists.

So was this just a Buggy as Hell^TM launch? I cancelled my Spotify subscription thinking that I would get at least similar performance from Apple Music, but I get useless, nonsense error messages when trying to play some tracks. That's been enough to keep me from using Apple Music, at least from my iPhone.

I use MP3's

All of these subscription music services are awful, even Spotify.

A while ago I mused at the deficiencies that Apple products have nowadays, and it seems that trend continues. I'm getting used to the 'Music' app on my iPhone, but don't much like it yet. iTunes is still a mess that I wish I Could avoid altogether.

Chrispy_ wrote:

I use MP3's

All of these subscription music services are awful, even Spotify.

The services, for me, are very good for discovering new music. There are about 5 bands so far I've discovered on Pandora and Google Music that I never would've found otherwise. Though from that point I purchase the music and play locally.

Sorry for interrupting your regularly scheduled Apple hating session.
I haven't enable Apple Music but I just tried searching "apple music itunes sync" and found this.

Chrispy_ wrote:

I use MP3's

I switched to OGG format a few years back. It seems to be a bit more efficient than MP3 in terms of amount of storage it needs to achieve fidelity that I have a hard time distinguishing from the original source material, given my typical listening environments (car and office). This allows me to cram a substantial fraction (about half) of my entire music collection onto a 64GB micro-SD card in the Clip+ player's expansion slot. 128GB cards are getting cheap enough that I'll probably upgrade the card soon and have the whole collection resident.

slowriot wrote:

Maybe the local downloads are on a per song or album basis? I use Google's Music service and they provide a pin button that downloads the album locally to the device. I'm not sure about playlists, I kind of despise playlists.

I think it's supposed to do that on the device (and it does), but I don't need it copying them back to my PC too as soon as the home WIFI is within range and the Mega Beast is turned on.

For as long as I have ever used iTunes you sync playlists via iTunes on your PC. It copies and updates them on the phone on the fly. I see what Apple is trying to do - my entire library is "available" on my phone whenever I want without a sync, but the complete lack of being able to tell it to copy playlists to the device with the files are on the PC is nuts. It's either broke (I mean, it is new) or this was the intention all along.

windwalker wrote:

Sorry for interrupting your regularly scheduled Apple hating session.
I haven't enable Apple Music but I just tried searching "apple music itunes sync" and found this.

This site isn't MacRumours, so bashing Apple is pretty much a given on TR. Now we've got that out the way, thanks for the link. It seems I am not alone, and there's some workarounds a few pages in that I can try.

I'm a Google Music: All Access subscriber, and I like it.
- Music is high quality at 320 kbps
- It has all the genres and popular playlists to find something new
- Their radio feature is quite good, and I've discovered new bands I now like that I otherwise hadn't heard of
- Organizing music into playlists is really easy
- There also is a "My Library" area for music you want to hear again but haven't necessarily voted up or added to a playlist - just like buying a CD to put on your shelf
- Adding or removing songs, albums, and playlists to/from mobile phone storage is very straight-forward
- The interface is very easy to use
- I haven't run into any issues with storage mismanagement, wrong album art, or wrong tags

I like it so much that I'm a bit stymied, because I'm an audio enthusiast that wants everything redbook quality or better, I'm more particular than anyone I've ever met on how to rip and store my music collection, and mp3s are inferior. But ... for listening at work or in the car or at my desk or cooking, Google Play seems perfect and I don't feel like I ever need to buy a CD again. But ... unless they go high-res, I'm going to feel stuck in the middle. Because I want better sound still on a discerning system, and it noticeably failed listening tests on a high end system. It's good enough quality for everything but a really well-put together enthusiast stereo, but that's what I'm into. (To be clear, all the other services except Tidal are lower or tied with Google Play on quality.)

Tidal is quickly winning over the hi-fi community with its lossless streaming (at $20/m for full quality). Everyone agrees it sounds superb. But their interface and usability is horrid, and it's being marketed by having exclusive-but-dreadful rap content. If Tidal gets a complete makeover and new business model, or if Google Play goes high-res, that will be my answer for hi-fi. But until then, I'm happy to use Google Play for everywhere but my listening room.

I Love Apple Music. /shrug

There's a setting to turn off LTE streaming and only stream over wifi.

Essentially for me I recreated all my playlists in Apple music. What took up 32+GB worth of real music files now only takes up 25MB worth of markers. What am I to do with all this extra space on my 64GB iPhone 6+??? But then again, I am probably one of the few ATT customers that have managed to hold on to their Unlimited plan from all they back since the original iPhone. Do I get throttled, occasionally. But by the time I am notified of the limit its usually within a few days of resetting. Usually not worth getting upset over.

HOWEVER, the only and biggest grip I am over it is they took away home sharing. But the good news is that as of today they announced that they are bringing it back in iOS9.

Oh and the beats (/shudder I cant believe I said something positive about beats) 1 playlists and visiting Musician playlist are available for download/import. Also the Siri integration is top notch! "Siri, make a playlist from all bands from Georgia", "Siri, make me a classic rock playlist" "Siri, I hate that song never play it again."

By the way, I'm on T-Mobile with their Music Freedom plan. Music streaming doesn't count towards my data bucket. Hooray.

tanker27, using it over WIFI only isn't going to help when I'm out and about. If mobile providers offered unlimited data plans here (UK) it would help someway, but they don't anymore. There's also the battery life to consider with streaming over the data connection for hours a day.

It's making my head hurt trying to figure out why Apple have stopped you being able to copy music files off your PC's iTunes to the phone.

Wonder if I can try "Hey Siri, find me a Galaxy S6 please?".

just brew it! wrote:

Have I mentioned lately how much I love my Sansa Clip+ with Rockbox firmware? (Yeah, kind of old-school... but I don't need to worry about any of the sort of crap you're bitching about...)

Man, I loved my Clip+ & Rockbox as well, and FLACs sounded great with them. Mine ended up suffering from the problem where the audio jack solder cracks and since I had my phone with me everywhere already, I just let it die rather than opening it up. But it was a good little device. If someone really needed a simple, dedicated music player I'd recommend it even though it's discontinued.

I really hate the iOS 8.4 music app. It seems like they're trying intentionally to hide features that I relied on in the past. Sometimes I want to listen to a specific playlist and that's fine, I can pick the playlist and shuffle it. But I have not figured out how to shuffle ALL the music on my phone. So I was stuck creating another playlist and putting everything from the other playlists into it to shuffle. I don't see why we have to have feature regression just because Apple wants to sell us stuff. Argh.

Chrispy_ wrote:

I use MP3's

All of these subscription music services are awful, even Spotify.

I store my personal collection in FLAC, backed up in triplicate, etc. I've ripped my CDs, vinyls, and even a few cassettes. These are the files I play on my PC and laptop 90% of the time and except for rare spins of a vinyl its what I play through my home audio setup. On my phone though I'm using Google's service and for $10 a month I think it's a really great value. It removes the majority of the chore involved in maintaining a big music collection between multiple devices. It falls a bit short in encompassing my entire collection of music, but none of the other services offer it either, and honestly... oh well? In those rare occasions I *really* need it on my phone I just do a manual transfer via network (local or otherwise) from my PC.

derFunkenstein wrote:

I don't see why we have to have feature regression just because Apple wants to sell us stuff. Argh.

You just answered it. They don't care about power users, or even people who previously relied on functionality that gets in the way of a new profit-seeking initiative. You're supposed to get on the bandwagon, silly - if you don't, that isn't making Apple any richer.

Man, I'd love to see a mobile platform that isn't greedy, inept, or run by control freaks...

Concupiscence wrote:

Man, I'd love to see a mobile platform that isn't greedy, inept, or run by control freaks...

And streaming music services are the poster child for everything that is wrong with mobile platforms

geekl33tgamer wrote:

There's also the battery life to consider with streaming over the data connection for hours a day.

I understand the angst. Really I do. Apple is a love/hate relationship. As you can tell I love it. It suits my needs. As for the battery life just to give you comparison, since AMusic dropped and I have made the switch, I stream over LTE from 0700-1130 and then from 1300-1600. I usually start around 100-97% and when I am done I am around 69%ish. I also have bluetooth running also during those times.

derFunkenstein wrote:

I really hate the iOS 8.4 music app. It seems like they're trying intentionally to hide features that I relied on in the past. Sometimes I want to listen to a specific playlist and that's fine, I can pick the playlist and shuffle it. But I have not figured out how to shuffle ALL the music on my phone. So I was stuck creating another playlist and putting everything from the other playlists into it to shuffle. I don't see why we have to have feature regression just because Apple wants to sell us stuff. Argh.

Yeah some settings are quite hidden. I dont understand why. In fact I originally had the same issue as you and just decided to plunge all the way in. Then I found this thread just yesterday.

dmjifn wrote:

just brew it! wrote:

Have I mentioned lately how much I love my Sansa Clip+ with Rockbox firmware? (Yeah, kind of old-school... but I don't need to worry about any of the sort of crap you're bitching about...)

Man, I loved my Clip+ & Rockbox as well, and FLACs sounded great with them. Mine ended up suffering from the problem where the audio jack solder cracks and since I had my phone with me everywhere already, I just let it die rather than opening it up. But it was a good little device. If someone really needed a simple, dedicated music player I'd recommend it even though it's discontinued.

I even ordered a spare one a while back. And just ordered a Clip Zip for my daughter (who has been lamenting her beat-up, ancient first-gen Clip).

just brew it! wrote:

Have I mentioned lately how much I love my Sansa Clip+ with Rockbox firmware? (Yeah, kind of old-school... but I don't need to worry about any of the sort of crap you're bitching about...)

Mm... I put Rockbox onto the original Sandisk Sansa e200 (the tall one) to enable larger microSD capacity. At this very moment I'm listening to Dark Sarah on my Clip+, but never bothered to put Rockbox on it... Clip+ seems good enough to me already..

Should I put Rockbox on it? What would be the main benefit? Equalizer?

NeelyCam wrote:

Mm... I put Rockbox onto the original Sandisk Sansa e200 (the tall one) to enable larger microSD capacity. At this very moment I'm listening to Dark Sarah on my Clip+, but never bothered to put Rockbox on it... Clip+ seems good enough to me already..

Should I put Rockbox on it? What would be the main benefit? Equalizer?

Better equalizer, usable playlist support, handles large memory cards without choking, player doesn't go catatonic for 10 minutes to refresh its meta-data database after changing the contents of the memory card, replaygain works better, max output level is higher (stock firmware had trouble driving my car stereo to decent levels unless I really cranked the gain on the car stereo, resulting in significant background noise), and a bazillion bells and whistles that 99% of people won't use. I really like the "car mode" where it automatically plays / pauses / powers down when you start and stop the engine if you've got the USB port plugged into a switched power jack.

On the downside, the USB mass storage support seems to be a little wonky. Copying files to it over the USB cable intermittently causes the player to freeze up. Not the end of the world; I prefer to use a USB 3.0 card reader anyway, since this is much faster than the Clip+ native USB interface (which is only USB 2.0).

NeelyCam wrote:

Clip+ seems good enough to me already..
Should I put Rockbox on it? What would be the main benefit? Equalizer?

I installed RockBoxx because the Sansa firmware didn't support FLAC in early 2010. That was rectified but I kept RockBoxx because it performed much, much better. If you're happy with basic use and you find the performance satisfactory, I would say there's probably no reason to upgrade. Otherwise, RockBoxx is probably better in every way. The player is surprisingly flexible and, as JBI's list shows, the Clip+ can do some amazing things if someone bothers programming it.

77gb of music dear god. What is that? 9000-10000 songs? at 99¢ a song that's over $10000. oh my god. I did the math on that expecting a ton of time you'd never be able to listen to for all that but it's actually less than a month!

fhohj wrote:

77gb of music dear god. What is that? 9000-10000 songs? at 99¢ a song that's over $10000. oh my god. I did the math on that expecting a ton of time you'd never be able to listen to for all that but it's actually less than a month!

Ripping large CD collection is an easy means of getting such large collections. Recently inherited a CD collection of metal from my father-in-law. That added several GB of data to my already large collection.

I've also moved from 128 Kbit MP3 to 192 KBit MP3 as none of my local audio equipment would make any higher quality encoding worth while. Other people can easily eat up such capacities with higher quality codecs like FLAC.

Of course quantity != quality as much of my digital collection sits collecting dust.

the wrote:

Ripping large CD collection is an easy means of getting such large collections. Recently inherited a CD collection of metal from my father-in-law. That added several GB of data to my already large collection.

My music collection has been acquired over a period of approximately 4 decades, as vinyl, CDs, and digital downloads. As 160kbit OGG files it occupies just shy of 128GB. The original WAV/FLAC files are much larger of course, but I don't put those on the Clip+.

the wrote:

Ripping large CD collection is an easy means of getting such large collections. Recently inherited a CD collection of metal from my father-in-law. That added several GB of data to my already large collection.

I've also moved from 128 Kbit MP3 to 192 KBit MP3 as none of my local audio equipment would make any higher quality encoding worth while. Other people can easily eat up such capacities with higher quality codecs like FLAC.

Of course quantity != quality as much of my digital collection sits collecting dust.

I always rip to FLAC, so I have a perfect 1:1 copy in case something happens to the original disc (and for headphone playback on the desktop). The FLAC copy stays on local storage, so I'm not worried about size. From there, I transcode an MP3 copy from the FLACs using Foobar2000+Lame 3.99 for playback on portable devices. Once you've got transcoding setup in Foobar, you can basically transcode your entire collection with a couple clicks, keeping the same folder hierarchy and filenames, and copying over tags, album art, and everything. The way you're doing it requires an complete new re-rip of all the original discs whenever you want to change the bitrate of the MP3s or switch formats.