Personal computing discussed

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whm1974
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:12 pm

Glorious wrote:
...Have you been paying attention to the various changes that have been occurring both here and elsewhere this year, most notably in the last few days?

I guess not. Please point out what you think I have been missing.
 
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:16 pm

whm1974 wrote:
I guess not. Please point out what you think I have been missing.


Where you here for this, about two years ago?

http://techreport.com/blog/26153/introd ... scriptions

Damage wrote:
Although PC gaming and enthusiast systems are a growing segment, the overall market for PCs has been in a prolonged slump. Advertising dollars have moved elsewhere. We have been attempting to hold steady and keep our current, long-tenured staff intact for the past few years, but the reality is that we've been slowly bleeding money.


Do you think it got better?

http://techreport.com/aboutus.x

-diff-

https://web.archive.org/web/20150129043 ... /aboutus.x

:cry: :(
 
whm1974
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:23 pm

Those links are just reminding me that this is a tech site for those who tinker with computers, those whom you keep pointing out are not the market Apple wants but who is still losing money by not catering to.
 
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Fri Dec 04, 2015 1:24 pm

whm1974 wrote:
Those links are just reminding me that this is a tech site for those who tinker with computers, those whom you keep pointing out are not the market Apple wants but who is still losing money by not catering to.


/facepalm
 
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:40 pm

Apple is not "losing money". Selling customizable, low-margin hardware is as foreign to the firm's business model as selling earthworms or blueberry pie.

There is a reason Apple doesn't sell OSX on the shelf next to Win10 or sanction third-party iOS devices. It would lower their margins, reduce their profitability, and dilute their brand. Selling more units does not mean that they'd make more profit. Think about why people buy Apple products and you'll understand why they're locked down.
 
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:41 pm

whm1974 wrote:
Those links are just reminding me that this is a tech site for those who tinker with computers, those whom you keep pointing out are not the market Apple wants but who is still losing money by not catering to.


What do you think the overall market is for "enthusiast" Mac tower hardware is? 10,000? 1,000,000? I would bet it is closer to 1,000 than 10,000. So for the sake of argument let's say they sell your dream machine for $2,200 each and there are 10,000 buyers per year. According to you they are losing out on $22 million in annual sales. Apple revenue last QUARTER was $49.605 BILLION. So your annual sales would amount to .044% of Apples QUARTERLY revenue. That's before we start adding the added support costs because enthusiasts like you will start tinkering and getting configurations that are not Apple approved. Then that leads to negative reviews and feedback if the support is found wanting. Just so they can make you happy. That's why Glorius keeps giving you a /facepalm.

Your solution is not complaining about Apple ignoring you, they would be stupid to do otherwise, but to build a hackintosh of your own.
 
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Fri Dec 04, 2015 2:50 pm

To better understand Apple's position you need to read up on their history.

Glorious touched on it, but back before Jobs made his return to Apple, they were selling machines in that market, somewhat similar to Microsoft's MO. It legitimately nearly killed Apple, to the point where they were weeks from not being able to pay payroll. When Jobs took over that was one of the first things on the chopping block. They found out the hard way that it's very hard (and expensive) to open up your software platform to 'white box' hardware. To this day I don't know how Microsoft successfully did it (volume I guess), but reading some of Raymond Chen's blog posts about with Window 95 days kinda shows some of the insane stuff they had to do/deal with (there's a crapload of hacky code, some of it still in modern Windows, to step around buggy/poorly implemented hardware/software).
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:09 pm

SuperSpy wrote:
To better understand Apple's position you need to read up on their history.

Glorious touched on it, but back before Jobs made his return to Apple, they were selling machines in that market, somewhat similar to Microsoft's MO. It legitimately nearly killed Apple, to the point where they were weeks from not being able to pay payroll. When Jobs took over that was one of the first things on the chopping block. They found out the hard way that it's very hard (and expensive) to open up your software platform to 'white box' hardware. To this day I don't know how Microsoft successfully did it (volume I guess), but reading some of Raymond Chen's blog posts about with Window 95 days kinda shows some of the insane stuff they had to do/deal with (there's a crapload of hacky code, some of it still in modern Windows, to step around buggy/poorly implemented hardware/software).

Had a Power Computing PowerBase 240 back when Apple allowed other companies to clone the Power Macintosh.
http://www.everymac.com/systems/powercc/powerbase/powerbase240.html
Edit: The point of the clones was to widen the install base of Macs, instead the companies cloning the Power Macintosh were pulling people from existing Apple made Macintosh/Power Macintosh computers. In other words the clones were harming Apple instead of helping to grow the small slice.
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whm1974
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:29 pm

I'm not saying for Apple to allow clones again. Just offer a basic tower. I'll bet they will sell at least a million towers a year if they did.
 
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:33 pm

whm1974 wrote:
Just offer a basic tower. I'll bet they will sell at least a million towers a year if they did.

OMDFG, you just cannot accept the reality EVERYONE ELSE in this thread has tried to push through your Ferrous Cranus.
If the Earth were flat, cats would have pushed everything off of it by now.
 
whm1974
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Fri Dec 04, 2015 3:48 pm

OK I will admit that I know nothing about marketing and I would make a poor sales person.
 
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:04 pm

I spent a few years working in a marketing department, so here's an example. Imagine a family walks into a restaurant. There's Mom and Dad plus four kids. Both Mom and Dad are short and slightly overweight, and three of the kids are also, but the other one is over six foot tall and skinny as a rail. It's weird. It doesn't fit. Why is that other kid is so different? Were they sick recently? Or is there some other explanation? Of course you don't know these people, so everything is probably just fine, and there's nothing really to indicate that anything suspect or out of the ordinary is going on, but still you can't help but wonder what happened there?

The purpose of the marketing departments of Apple and most other companies is to remove doubts like that from your buying decision. They spend a lot of time, money and resources on it, and having one odd-ball product hanging out there almost without reason is not the way to do it.
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whm1974
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:29 pm

OK OK you guys are right, I really don't understand the market Apple is selling to. I will never buy an AIO and I advise people who ask me about computers to stay away from them due to their many disadvantages. Maybe I'm just too geeky...
 
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:31 pm

Captain Ned wrote:


Huh. Learned something new today.
 
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Fri Dec 04, 2015 4:33 pm

Atradeimos wrote:
Huh. Learned something new today.

Then my work for the day is complete.
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:04 pm

whm1974 wrote:
I'm not saying for Apple to allow clones again. Just offer a basic tower. I'll bet they will sell at least a million towers a year if they did.


First off, the profit margin on a million basic towers would probably not cover operational costs.

But more importantly... it's just not what they're about. When people are saying "Apple sells devices" that isn't just an outside observation of their business model; that is basically their corporate mantra. They believe in it to their core. They sell devices. They are completely and utterly devoted to the idea that each and every product they sell works a certain way - their way - which a whole lot of people find appealing. They're banking on the notion that enough people want the Apple experience that they don't even have to worry about people who don't - and for the most part they're right.

Apple believes in having total control over the device; hardware, software, everything. They don't even want you replacing the battery.
 
whm1974
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:11 pm

cphite wrote:
Apple believes in having total control over the device; hardware, software, everything. They don't even want you replacing the battery.

Well I guess I never buy an Apple product then.
 
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Fri Dec 04, 2015 5:20 pm

whm1974 wrote:
Well I guess I never buy an Apple product then.

And we wasted 9 pages on this?
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biffzinker
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:08 pm

How about this AIO whm1974?
http://hothardware.com/reviews/asus-zen-aio-pro-review
Image
It’s been quite some time since we last looked at an all-in-one PC. Although there is clearly a niche market for AiOs, the product segment has always kept a consistent rythm in all facets of computing - consumer, enterprise and SMB. These types of systems appeal to style-conscious users and businesses that need computing utility with good looks, that blends in and stays out of the way. And though many are not powerhouses, a few do catch our enthusiast eye, and one of those few is the Asus Zen AiO Pro Z240IC, which Asus is billing as “The pinnacle of Windows all-in-one PCs.”
It would take you... 2233 continuous hours or 93 days, 1 hour, and 20 minutes of gameplay to complete your Steam library.
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:29 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
Just offer a basic tower. I'll bet they will sell at least a million towers a year if they did.

OMDFG, you just cannot accept the reality EVERYONE ELSE in this thread has tried to push through your Ferrous Cranus.

I laughed so hard I started to cough.
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:34 pm

whm1974 wrote:
Maybe I'm just too geeky...

No, you are not being geeky. A true geek loves tech no matter where it comes from.
Last edited by End User on Sat Dec 05, 2015 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Threadripper 1950X build parts have arrived - i'm procrastinating on the build :(
 
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:37 pm

biffzinker wrote:
Had a Power Computing PowerBase 240 back when Apple allowed other companies to clone the Power Macintosh.

Damn. That is cool.
Threadripper 1950X build parts have arrived - i'm procrastinating on the build :(
 
confusedpenguin
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:38 pm

I just ordered a Logitech G600 gaming mouse. It says it now has Mac support, although I can dual-boot into Windows 10 to play WoW if I have to to take advantage of the side buttons if they aren't supported on OSX. I read the Logitech G600 is a comfortable fit for people with big hands. I finally broke down and ordered it. My hand is hurting like heck tonight from having to arch my fingers for the stupid finger touch sensors on this stupid Apple Magical Mouse of Carpal Tunnel Summoning,
 
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Fri Dec 04, 2015 11:48 pm

confusedpenguin wrote:
I just ordered a Logitech G600 gaming mouse. It says it now has Mac support, although I can dual-boot into Windows 10 to play WoW if I have to to take advantage of the side buttons if they aren't supported on OSX. I read the Logitech G600 is a comfortable fit for people with big hands. I finally broke down and ordered it. My hand is hurting like heck tonight from having to arch my fingers for the stupid finger touch sensors on this stupid Apple Magical Mouse of Carpal Tunnel Summoning,

Good for you!

I really dislike preaching but what exactly were you thinking when you ordered your iMac with the Magic Mouse instead of the trackpad?
You don't need to use it to realize that it's abomination in terms of ergonomics.
One look at a photo of it should be enough to make it clear that the mouse is unconventional at best and most likely a pain to use.
 
confusedpenguin
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:03 am

Lol. I had no clue the Magical Mouse of Carpal Tunnel Summoning was going to be so small and uncomfortable. There is an Apple Store in Boise which is pretty close so I should have just gone there to try it out first. I'm not going to knock the iMac. It is a great computer. However, Apple does a terrible job at input device ergonomics, and if Steve Jobs were still alive we would have slit the throats of some of the design team with a boxcutter for designing such a horrible mouse. Not to mention the apple bluetooth keyboard is a horrid abomination as well. Great for my 7 year old daughter's hands, but not for grown-up hands. My next order will be a full-size keyboard with Cherry MX switches.
 
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:24 am

confusedpenguin wrote:
if Steve Jobs were still alive we would have slit the throats of some of the design team with a boxcutter for designing such a horrible mouse.


i'm pretty sure the Magical Mouse of Carpal Tunnel Summoning was around when Jobs was alive. Who knows? Maybe he had already sliced those throats and harvested their bodies for stem cells.

As for your Logitech: I have the G502, and Mac support for it, is quite good. I don't play games on it, but all of the functionalities are the same between Windows and Mac OS X.
 
confusedpenguin
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Sat Dec 05, 2015 12:35 am

Ok, I didn't realize there was a basic G500 Mouse, Dang tricky naming schemes. Lol. I got the G500 MMO Gaming Mouse. There are 12 custom-programmable buttons on the side of the mouse, which I assume I'll probably use in WoW for the 1 though = keys for doing action bar stuff. I just wish it was a bluetooth mouse, but at least I won't be replacing batteries. :-) I go through a set of AA batteries about two to three times a month on the Apple Magical Mouse of Carpal Tunnel Summoning. Oh wait, correction, G600, not G500. My eyes hurt tonight. Ugh. I got the G600 MMO Gaming Mouse. 38 bucks from Amazon, listed as brand new and not used. Listen at 79 dollars on Logitech's site. The white version was cheaper than the black version. Not sure why, but I bought the white version since it matches the computer more.
 
biffzinker
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:31 am

You guys don't remember this hockey puck mouse?
Image

How about the other two to the right?
Image
It would take you... 2233 continuous hours or 93 days, 1 hour, and 20 minutes of gameplay to complete your Steam library.
In this time you could... Speed run Super Mario Bros (NES) 26,800 times.
 
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Sat Dec 05, 2015 3:14 am

Oh yes, remember all of them. Apple mice have always sucked, I have no idea how the department that makes them manages it...
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Laptop: MacBook6,1
 
confusedpenguin
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Re: Buying a Mac tonight

Sat Dec 05, 2015 10:10 am

The first mouse I ever used was on an Apple IIgs in 1st or second grade. The IIgs was superior in every way to the Macintosh at the time. Then there was the mouse that came with my parents first computer, an 80386DX. It was a big block mouse with three buttons.
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