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Ok. Why does the iMac come with this gorgeous but teeny tiny laptop-style keyboard? It looks pretty, but it is impractical to type an email on. It's like marrying a supermodel. Sure, she is hot, but getting her to put out is too much of a hassle. I want a full size mechanical clicky key keyboard, with the mac icons so I know which one is command, fn, alt/option, etc. Full-size meaning, I'm German, Welsh, and a bit of Cherokee so I have monster-size hands and don't want to have to type with my fingernails anymore. It also wouldn't hurt to replace the hoity toity magical mouse too, since I don't like to keep track of where my fingers are by looking at it before I click just to make sure it doesn't think I'm trying to do right-click when it should so obviously know I wanted to do left-click.

What I've done is just use a PC-styled keyboard. In the Keyboard preferences, you can swap the position of Command and Option (it's buried in the screen you get when you click the Modifier Keys button). When you do, Windows key will perform as Option and the Alt key will perform as Command, so everything is in the same position it is in with a regular Mac keyboard.

If you buy the right keyboard you can just buy custom keycaps to go with it, too.

BTW the aluminum keyboard that ships with Macs is a far sight better than the standard options from Dell, HP, et. al.

I've been forced to work with a couple of iMacs recently; both the keyboard and the mouse are abominations unto ergonomics and practicality.

As sexy as they look, I'd much rather have a cheap,wired, plastic Dell/HP/Microsoft/Logitech keyboard and mouse.

WITH A SCROLL WHEEL.

THAT SCROLLS IN THE CONVENTIONAL DIRECTION.

AND SEPERATE LEFT-CLICK AND RIGHT-CLICK BUTTONS THAT DON'T GET ALL CONFUSED IF YOU PRESS RIGHT-CLICK WHILST LIGHTLY RESTING YOUR LEFT FINGER OVER THE LEFT HALF OF THE MOUSE.

Perhaps if Steve Jobs were still alive, he would have slit somebody's throat with a box cutter for not using their head in the most recent keyboard and mouse design.

I'm still adjusting to using a MacBook Pro at my new job. Yes, they understand conventional PC keyboards and mice. No, it's not 100% seamless, but it's close enough IMO, and I will probably be spending a lot of my time in Linux VMs anyway given that most of the stuff I will be working on is Linux-based. I took one of my Rosewill RK-9000s and a Logitech M325 wireless mouse to the office, and the MacBook recognized them without incident. There's also a setting you can toggle to reverse the action of the scrollwheel so that it behaves like a sane scroll wheel.

just brew it! wrote:

There's also a setting you can toggle to reverse the action of the scrollwheel so that it behaves like a sane scroll wheel.

I know. The default setting is just insane, even as an iPad user it just feels totally wrong on a mouse.

Chrispy_ wrote:

just brew it! wrote:

There's also a setting you can toggle to reverse the action of the scrollwheel so that it behaves like a sane scroll wheel.

I know. The default setting is just insane, even as an iPad user it just feels totally wrong on a mouse.

Yup. Hey Apple... in case you haven't noticed, a mouse scrollwheel is NOT the same as a touchscreen!

An input device is made for a human being to interface with. Humans have nerves in their fingers which allow them to sense pressure and physical objects. Buttons have been used for over a centuries, even a few millennia for some things. They are still used for everything from opening latches to, well, pretty much everything. I am a sentient being, I want my mouse to have buttons. Come on Apple!

just brew it! wrote:

Chrispy_ wrote:

just brew it! wrote:

There's also a setting you can toggle to reverse the action of the scrollwheel so that it behaves like a sane scroll wheel.

I know. The default setting is just insane, even as an iPad user it just feels totally wrong on a mouse.

Yup. Hey Apple... in case you haven't noticed, a mouse scrollwheel is NOT the same as a touchscreen!

I don't think there's any one right answer to this. And actually, when Apple first did that, I did try using autohotkey to simulate it on Windows, and kinda liked it. The problem is that messing with it caused other issues/oddities (ex. I couldn't scroll in vmware), and most companies didn't (and still don't, 4 years later) support it, so I finally gave up.

On another note, I'm not sure that I like Apple trying to hard to fake the clicks in the new touchpads rather than, you know, having it actually click. For example, every time I use the turn signals in my car, I appreciate the clearly mechanical sound/feel (and the clicking of what's probably good 'ol thermal flashers). It's obvious that it's not unnecessarily electronic.

OS X makes more sense paired with the Magic Trackpad, and Apple really should stop selling mice.

WASD Keyboards has keyboards that can be customized, and one of the customizations if to specify Mac markings. (http://www.wasdkeyboards.com/index.php/ ... board.html)

With mechanical keyboards, it's mostly about the keycaps. You can buy a keyboard you like then buy a keycap set.

derFunkenstein wrote:

BTW the aluminum keyboard that ships with Macs is a far sight better than the standard options from Dell, HP, et. al.

It really is. I contemplated getting one as a backup keyboard.

confusedpenguin wrote:

Perhaps if Steve Jobs were still alive, he would have slit somebody's throat with a box cutter for not using their head in the most recent keyboard and mouse design.

Most recent? Have apple produced a decent keyboard or mouse since the ADB days?

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Matias so far, the company famous for producing a successor to the Apple Extended Keyboard and a specialist in making 'mechanical' keyboards before all these johnny come lately gamers decided they suddenly needed one.
http://matias.ca/

And of course, you can also go for a Filco Ninja or Das Keyboard Original. No markings means no worrying about compatibility.

Oooh, I like the Matias site. A few very nice keyboards to choose from.

First of all, even just a few years ago, nobody knew what a mechanical keyboard is. Yea sure people 20 years ago knew, but for a long time nobody knew because the technology was obsolete, for good reason. Which leads to my second point.
Mechanical keyboards aren't that great. While I cannot call myself a keyboard enthusiast, I have owned two mechanical keyboards, right now I'm using a K70 RGB with brown switch. After using these for a couple of years, I would say that mechanical keyboards are "different" and not all that superior to good membrane keyboards like that ones that come with iMacs or on laptops. And there is a strong tendency for us to mistaken "different" with "better", just look at all the photo filters, sound equalizers, UI themes, ENB presets. They all prey on our feeling of fresh and different.
In conclusion, those iMac keyboards I actually appreciate a lot, because of the short travel distance. It really makes typing easier and faster. Basically the reason I use a $200 mechanical keyboard now days is not because of the switch, I actually hate the huge travel distance, but rather because it's a premium keyboard with an interesting backlight system. If they made the same thing but in a low profile form factor, I think I would've bought that instead.

BURN THE HERETIC

1391401 4lyfe.

I can't stand the short key travel distance of most newer laptop keyboards. I guess it is just a matter of what you grew up using.

just brew it! wrote:

I can't stand the short key travel distance of most newer laptop keyboards. I guess it is just a matter of what you grew up using.

I certainly can use well built flat laptop keyboards (ex. a Macbook or my zbook 14), but no doubt I'd rather have an MX blue mechanical. Putting up with it rather than liking it. Hell, I'm one of those weirdos who often bottoms out keys - I know I don't have to, but I prefer the feel and am used to it. Either way, dat key travel and clickiness. (Old style, clicky, mechanical controls are always better, I say. Anything from a keyboard to a power button on electronics to the turn signals in my car.)

I grew up typing on an IBM Model M keyboard. I prefer the buckling spring keyboard to anything else, hands down, but in my experience, mechanical is the second best. As far as I know, The IBM Model M was the only buckling spring keyboard ever made, and it is still made by unicomp. I used to have one, but my mom liked it so much she helped herself to it and I never saw it again. It's probably in her work office. Anyway, I have big hands. I'm not trying to brag and I'm not going to make a joke about men with big hands. I like the bigger keyboards because it is easier for me to type on. The IBM Model M keyboards I can type like lightning. It's easy to know when the key click registers and it is easier on my fingers because I get the feeling of how much effort it takes to make the key press register, so it is less fatiguing to type on a keyboard with good clicky feedback. I HATE laptop keyboards, and to me, this stupid apple bluetooth keyboard feels like a laptop keyboard. It is annoying, so I'm going to replace it with a keyboard that is actually made to type on. I might give this stupid apple bluetooth keyboard to one of my daughters. It is more for kid hands.

just brew it! wrote:

I can't stand the short key travel distance of most newer laptop keyboards. I guess it is just a matter of what you grew up using.

Fully agreed. I had one of the laptop style Apple keyboards at work for a while and it made my fingers hurt.

They do have a model of the Das keyboard that has the Apple layout, but I think it comes with blue switches only. That may or may not be a showstopper depending on how noise sensitive you (or those around you) are.

If it's a problem, you can always look up an O-ring kit for the thing.

I use the Apple wireless keyboard with my primary OS X setup and I use the Apple wired keyboard with my Linux/Win 10 PCs. The minimal key travel and short key height is a big plus for me. The keyboard on my rMB reduces the key height even further (which I really like) but the reduced key travel took a while to get familiar with.

just brew it! wrote:

I took one of my Rosewill RK-9000s and a Logitech M325 wireless mouse to the office, and the MacBook recognized them without incident.

I'm fairly certain that this type of thing was possible with the majority of PC mice and keyboards from the moment Apple introduced USB to the Mac lineup way back in 1998. OS X definitely supported PC mice/keyboards right from the beginning.

Flatland_Spider wrote:

OS X makes more sense paired with the Magic Trackpad

Bingo.

just brew it! wrote:

I can't stand the short key travel distance of most newer laptop keyboards. I guess it is just a matter of what you grew up using.

I started out on a Commodore PET. I much prefer the keyboard on my rMB. Perhaps one would have to go back to the days of punch cards or earlier to see what you are suggesting.

localhostrulez wrote:

On another note, I'm not sure that I like Apple trying to hard to fake the clicks in the new touchpads rather than, you know, having it actually click.

I absolutely hate the click of any trackpad. Fortunately one can avoid trackpad clicks almost completely when using OS X (multi finger touch/swipe). That being said I much prefer the "click" of the trackpad on my rMB to that of my Magic Trackpads. The absence of travel makes a massive difference. If Apple were to release a Force Touch Magic Trackpad I'd switch over in an instant.

End User wrote:

I absolutely hate the click of any trackpad. Fortunately one can avoid trackpad clicks almost completely when using OS X (multi finger touch/swipe). That being said I much prefer the "click" of the trackpad on my rMB to that of my Magic Trackpads. The absence of travel makes a massive difference. If Apple were to release a Force Touch Magic Trackpad I'd switch over in an instant.

The touchpad button layouts on consumer laptops are usually terrible, if you ask me. But good discrete buttons, a la HP Elitebook/Zbook or Lenovo Thinkpad (before the T540/T440 clickpads), are cool with me. I could use my zbook without ever clicking (some recent Synaptics drivers support 2-finger tap to right-click), but those discrete buttons are easier. Why bother?

localhostrulez wrote:

I could use my zbook without ever clicking (some recent Synaptics drivers support 2-finger tap to right-click), but those discrete buttons are easier. Why bother?

I disagree about discrete buttons being easier. I can multi touch anywhere on a Apple trackpad. Touch is way more efficient than click for me.

If you heart is set on a lower right mouse button you can set that in the trackpad prefs. I just tried it and it is such an awkward way to secondary click it made me shiver.

End User wrote:

localhostrulez wrote:

I could use my zbook without ever clicking (some recent Synaptics drivers support 2-finger tap to right-click), but those discrete buttons are easier. Why bother?

I disagree about discrete buttons being easier. I can multi touch anywhere on a Apple trackpad. Touch is way more efficient than click for me.

If you heart is set on a lower right mouse button you can set that in the trackpad prefs. I just tried it and it is such an awkward way to secondary click it made me shiver.

I've never liked the way Mac trackpads click - too stiff. So yeah, I do use 2-finger right-click on those. But when I have good physical buttons, that's usually easier. I switch between both on the fly as I feel like it.

I tend to rely on the trackpad only in situations where plugging in a real mouse is impractical, e.g. on flights and commuter buses/trains. Given the cramped quarters (your arms are frequently at awkward angles), accurate execution of multi-touch gestures is a questionable proposition. Give me the damn buttons!

confusedpenguin wrote:

Ok. Why does the iMac come with this gorgeous but teeny tiny laptop-style keyboard? It looks pretty, but it is impractical to type an email on.

Remember the apple 1-2-3.
1.K.I.S.S.
2.Make it pretty.
3.Con everyone into believing the high price they paid is because they getting the best.........................

apple's RDF insists that now you've bought a mac you be a good boy and suck it up and use what your given.......................

HERETIC wrote:

apple's RDF insists that now you've bought a mac you be a good boy and suck it up and use what your given

As mentioned before you can use whatever you want with a Mac.

End User wrote:

HERETIC wrote:

apple's RDF insists that now you've bought a mac you be a good boy and suck it up and use what your given

As mentioned before you can use whatever you want with a Mac.

You still over-paid for the Mac. The only reason I use one now is that it is the standard issue computing device at my new job.

End User wrote:

HERETIC wrote:

apple's RDF insists that now you've bought a mac you be a good boy and suck it up and use what your given

As mentioned before you can use whatever you want with a Mac.

Did you really miss the sarcasm/humor of that comment??????????

just brew it! wrote:

You still over-paid for the Mac.

I don't have a problem with that.

just brew it! wrote:

The only reason I use one now is that it is the standard issue computing device at my new job.

That was a given.

HERETIC wrote:

End User wrote:

HERETIC wrote:

apple's RDF insists that now you've bought a mac you be a good boy and suck it up and use what your given

As mentioned before you can use whatever you want with a Mac.

Did you really miss the sarcasm/humor of that comment??????????

Clearly.