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derFunkenstein
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Apple WWDC keynote

Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:51 pm

Anybody watching this? There's some interesting things in the next version of macOS, especially official external graphics capabilities. That's exciting for me, since I caved and sold my Dell laptop to buy a 13" MBP and an Akitio Node. Along with it, a new version of Metal and VR APIs. They're working with Epic, Valve, and Unity to support Metal and VR.

New iMacs have Kaby Lake CPUs and faster Polaris GPUs, which is nice. The GPU models on the iMac don't have M in the model names, either, which makes me wonder if they're actually desktop cards this time. Seems unlikely given the 500 series' love for power. 4K with Radeon Pro 555 starts at $1300.

Oh, and Kaby Lake in the laptops, too.
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Re: Apple WWDC keynote

Mon Jun 05, 2017 12:59 pm

iMac Pro:

up to 18-core Xeon
up to 128GB ECC RAM
up to 4TB of flash storage
some sort of Vega with up to 22 TFLOP of "half precision" calc (16-bit float? not up to speed here)
10-Gbit ethernet
27" 5K display

Looks kinda ridiculous. They're claiming that the starting config would cost $7000 from another vendor without the display and they're going to charge $5000. It's crazy money, but if you make your money with your computer, I guess it's reasonable.

Tim Cook said "badass" which is totally weird.
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Re: Apple WWDC keynote

Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:06 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
(16-bit float? not up to speed here)

Yeah "Half Precision" is FP16. Most of iOS graphics use it as it's way cheaper to calculate.

It looks like they are taking the rage from the pro community to heart. I'm actually kinda of excited to see what they come out with to replace the cylinder Mac Pro next year.
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derFunkenstein
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Re: Apple WWDC keynote

Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:10 pm

Yeah, I am, too. Not that I'd buy a new Mac Pro (my work machine is a 2013 base config with extra RAM, and there's no way I'd pay that much for any PC) but that it'll actually be competitive. I have a feeling that the cylindrical Mac Pro might go away when this iMac Pro comes out.

Kaby Lake is WAY overdue, but official support for external graphics is exciting. I'm bummed that I've had this laptop for all of a week and they've replaced it, though. :lol: Still, I can't complain - it was an open box at Best Buy. 16GB of RAM and 512GB of storage for $350 off, and I get the full 1-year warranty.
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Re: Apple WWDC keynote

Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:16 pm

iOS 11 has some fun-looking stuff. I doubt person-to-person Apple Pay will take over the world from PayPal or Venmo, but whatever. The technical changes in the camera are cool, if they pan out. If photos and videos are really half the size with their new formats, that's excellent. Hopefully sharing them with the world won't be difficult. HEVC is fairly common, but their new photo format sounds proprietary-ish.

Apple just introduced Motorola's driving mode. The first-gem Moto X did all this stuff. Auto-respond to texts, break-through contacts, and so on. Motorola's could also read the text to you and let you respond by voice, but Apple is getting there.

I just caught up with TechCrunch's liveblog. The new macOS is called High Sierra? I'll just call it 10.13.
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Re: Apple WWDC keynote

Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:19 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
If photos and videos are really half the size with their new formats, that's excellent. Hopefully sharing them with the world won't be difficult. HEVC is fairly common, but their new photo format sounds proprietary-ish.

As someone who stupidly bought a 16GB 6s plus, I can't wait for the compression update for photos and videos.
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Re: Apple WWDC keynote

Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:20 pm

ARM on Macs Conf--- ah crap.
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Re: Apple WWDC keynote

Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:22 pm

chuckula wrote:
ARM on Macs Conf--- ah crap.

Yeah, that's been my favorite rumor, too. :lol:
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Re: Apple WWDC keynote

Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:23 pm

180 billion downloads from the app store, not counting re-downloads or updates, makes my 30,000-ish install base look tiny. :lol:

I have never seen a 1-2 hour turnaround time for an app review, though. Very rarely are they reviewed in less than 48 hours. Phil is outright contradicting my experience. :-/
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Re: Apple WWDC keynote

Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:27 pm

Hopefully Apple actually tested the thermals and power phases for this AIO monster of theirs. 180W Xeon + 300W Vega, with 128GB DDR4 ECC and 4GB of PCIe NVME SSDs? On the upside, this thing will be an effective space heater for those cold, northern winters.
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Re: Apple WWDC keynote

Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:42 pm

Note to the Chinese: please buy our stuff again.

Context: Y/Y drops in China two years running now.
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Re: Apple WWDC keynote

Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:47 pm

10.5" iPad Pro has a big.LITTLE CPU configuration. I'm surprised.
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Re: Apple WWDC keynote

Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:07 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
Looks kinda ridiculous. They're claiming that the starting config would cost $7000 from another vendor without the display and they're going to charge $5000. It's crazy money, but if you make your money with your computer, I guess it's reasonable.


I can believe it. OEMs love to charge insane amounts for SSDs on workstations vs. DIY offerings. Ditto for memory upgrades.

However, it is still cheaper to build a box from parts than going through Apple. (Though historically Apple has occasionally given DIY a run for its money. The first Mac Pros were very inexpensive compared to even white box builds. The first 5K iMac was prized the same as the Dell 5K display at the time and you got a compute 'for free' effectively.)
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Re: Apple WWDC keynote

Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:09 pm

ultima_trev wrote:
Hopefully Apple actually tested the thermals and power phases for this AIO monster of theirs. 180W Xeon + 300W Vega, with 128GB DDR4 ECC and 4GB of PCIe NVME SSDs? On the upside, this thing will be an effective space heater for those cold, northern winters.


Heh, if those were the actually power ratings for the parts Apple is using, it'd end up being a pool of molten aluminum. Chances are that they're using ~125W Xeons and ~150W Vega chips if I had to guess. Still not easy to cool but far from the nuclear furnace it'd otherwise be.
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Re: Apple WWDC keynote

Mon Jun 05, 2017 2:10 pm

I do seem to remember the first Mac Pro being very cost-competitive, that's true, and the Nehalem ones were occasionally (early on) cheaper than the Dell or HP equivalent.

This eGPU support stuff makes the Mac Mini stand out like a sore thumb. Just put Kaby Lake CPUs and Thunderbolt 3 in the same enclosure and suddenly you've got a Mac that can do just about anything.

HomePod is a stupid name, but Beats + Apple might actually bear fruit (harrr)
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Re: Apple WWDC keynote

Mon Jun 05, 2017 3:51 pm

What does Apple spend their money on? I don't think anything was announced today was bad or poor. But it does seem all very boring, very much what's expected. They're not wowing me with anything, even Microsoft can at least do that with their conferences. Apple trots out... updated SKUs and a Amazon Echo competitor? Ok neat but they should be blowing us away.
 
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Re: Apple WWDC keynote

Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:10 pm

slowriot wrote:
What does Apple spend their money on? I don't think anything was announced today was bad or poor. But it does seem all very boring, very much what's expected. They're not wowing me with anything, even Microsoft can at least do that with their conferences. Apple trots out... updated SKUs and a Amazon Echo competitor? Ok neat but they should be blowing us away.


I'm just glad that Apple is doing some refreshes; their lineup for personal computing was getting very old. Maybe Apple won't end up being a bigger better Nokia or BlackBerry/RIM after all.
 
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Re: Apple WWDC keynote

Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:15 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
I have never seen a 1-2 hour turnaround time for an app review, though. Very rarely are they reviewed in less than 48 hours. Phil is outright contradicting my experience. :-/


The updates I always submitted took at least 36-48 hours as well. 1-2 hours is not real. First submission usually took 5 business days for us minimum.

edit: Also yay! for APFS. Much excite.
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Re: Apple WWDC keynote

Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:41 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
iMac Pro:

up to 18-core Xeon
up to 128GB ECC RAM
up to 4TB of flash storage
some sort of Vega with up to 22 TFLOP of "half precision" calc (16-bit float? not up to speed here)
10-Gbit ethernet
27" 5K display

Looks kinda ridiculous. They're claiming that the starting config would cost $7000 from another vendor without the display and they're going to charge $5000. It's crazy money, but if you make your money with your computer, I guess it's reasonable.

Tim Cook said "badass" which is totally weird.

The iMac Pro is a ******* awesome PC. That being said I would not touch it with a 10 foot pole as it is way too much money to spend on an AIO. Once the 3 year warranty is over (you definitely need AppleCare with this) you are in for some eye watering repair bills if something goes wrong.
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Re: Apple WWDC keynote

Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:46 pm

With no Mac mini update Apple has now, sadly, firmly pushed me out of their desktop lineup. I guess I'm sticking with my Windows based desktop PCs for the foreseeable future.
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Re: Apple WWDC keynote

Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:48 pm

Vhalidictes wrote:
Maybe Apple won't end up being a bigger better Nokia or BlackBerry/RIM after all.

Of course not. Apple refreshes their Nokia/Blackberry killer every year.
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Re: Apple WWDC keynote

Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:54 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
10.5" iPad Pro has a big.LITTLE CPU configuration. I'm surprised.

Why is that a surprise? The A10X is based on the A10 found in the iPhone 7:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A10#Design
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Re: Apple WWDC keynote

Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:02 pm

It looks like the MBP still has AMD graphics with only 4GB of graphic memory. I thought creatives were looking for CUDA for rendering and 6 GB for holding bigger scenes during rendering.

And only 16 GB RAM and only 2TB of internal SSD, with no way to upgrade? What's up with that and what's wrong with you Apple?
 
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Re: Apple WWDC keynote

Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:31 pm

Yeah, 16GB (with no option to upgrade) is pretty chintzy for what is supposed to be a premium product.
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Re: Apple WWDC keynote

Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:36 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Yeah, 16GB (with no option to upgrade) is pretty chintzy for what is supposed to be a premium product.


The very lowest-power Core-M parts actually only officially support 16GB of RAM (and it's DDR3L too).

However, the i5-7360U lists 32GB and the beefier 7700HQ at least lists support for 64GB.
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Re: Apple WWDC keynote

Tue Jun 06, 2017 8:59 am

They did the least amount of work possible to put Kaby Lake in the MBP, and that means sticking with DDR3L. It's frustrating that they didn't use DDR4 in the first place, though.

End User wrote:
Why is that a surprise? The A10X is based on the A10 found in the iPhone 7:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_A10#Design

It was surprising to me because I didn't know the A10 used big.LITTLE. I had (up until yesterday) assumed that Apple thought big.LITTLE was a waste of time and space.
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Re: Apple WWDC keynote

Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:31 am

End User wrote:
Vhalidictes wrote:
Maybe Apple won't end up being a bigger better Nokia or BlackBerry/RIM after all.

Of course not. Apple refreshes their Nokia/Blackberry killer every year.


That's a good point. I still remember RIM's yearly Nokia-killer release. IIRC Blackberrys were premium devices in their time.

Taking a step back, it looks like Apple remembered that they aren't a phone company, so the danger is likely over for now. They're making a ton of money year-over-year in China too.
 
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Re: Apple WWDC keynote

Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:54 am

Vhalidictes wrote:
Taking a step back, it looks like Apple remembered that they aren't a phone company

The Mac faithful started to complain in a major way. The good news is that Apple listened.
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Re: Apple WWDC keynote

Tue Jun 06, 2017 2:18 pm

Apple's eGPU kit is reasonably affordable, considering that it comes with a graphics card and a four-port Type-C to Type-A hub. Gotta have developer access to buy, though.

https://developer.apple.com/development ... -graphics/
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Re: Apple WWDC keynote

Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:27 pm

End User wrote:
Vhalidictes wrote:
Taking a step back, it looks like Apple remembered that they aren't a phone company

The Mac faithful started to complain in a major way. The good news is that Apple listened.


Mac faithful? The only ones left are the ones who got drunk off of the kool aid. The crowd that preferred Mac but you know, wanted regularly released hardware because time is money took a serious look else where. There are people who have stuck with the 2010 Mac Pro since it was introduced seven years ago that are waiting for a real upgrade who still won't be getting one this year.

I will say that the iMac Pro is a good step in the right direction other than its lack of upgradable GPU. Granted I suspect that Vega will be fast but will it remain competitive three or four years down the road? Sure, you an get an external GPU solution soon but that won't work with the 5K built-in screen. (Considering the snails pace on the CPU side of things of late, I would suspect that the iMac Pro will be doing alright in that time frame, especially if one were to opt for the 18 core chips.)

The problem for Apple is that cratered to the creative professionals but while they were asleep at the wheel, products like the Surface Studio have been released which has gotten a bit of a following now. Apple isn't in the position of just losing followers due to lack of update, they're in a spot where they have to actively to win them back.
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