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I don't begrudge him the use of macOS. Dogma doesn't serve anyone well in computing. If "the year of the Linux desktop" amounts to it achieving 5% penetration, I think that'd be fine. At that point we'd be talking about a level of sway on par with macOS, and after wandering in the woods between 2011 and 2017, the renewed drive toward standardization around systemd and a small handful of desktop environments could make that a reasonable possibility.

Doing presentations on a Mac makes a decent amount of sense to anybody who's ever used Keynote. It's pretty slick. Presentations look nice.

Glorious wrote:

End User wrote:

He does? In 2017? Any proof? He had been using a 2016 Dell XPS13 Developer Edition as far as I knew. Before that he used a Sony Vaio Pro 11.

Linus isn't the head of the Linux Foundation, he's not on the leadership team or even the board.

He's a fellow.

According to the 2015 990, yes, Torvald's the most compensated employee, with the macOS-using executive director Jim Zemlin being the second-most.

And yes, Jim Zemlin (in)famously uses macOS, up to the present day, and has done so unapologetically for years.

https://linux.slashdot.org/story/17/09/ ... rce-summit

a) I was talking about Linus to begin with
b) my bad on getting confused
c) if we have to talk about that other dude then he is using a UNIX® Certified Product so I'm going to cut him some slack

Glorious wrote:

EDIT: and yes, the finger was for Nvidia. It's not pedantry, you were implying that Linus would be mad over people using proprietary software. LOLNAW: he used bitkeeper for years until Tridgell tipped his hand. Only then did they make the effort to create git.

He was mad over hardware support. Not the same thing.

Holy crap. The funny bit was a picture of Linus showing the finger. End of line. The backstory to that photo (which everybody and their grandmother are aware of) was irrelevant.

Glorious wrote:

And, btw, developers on MBPs with native OS is "odd"? lolwut? This planet of yours is not ours, yet again.

Sigh. No. Internally his company does not deem the OS their product is meant to run on secure enough to offer as a primary OS option on work assigned hardware.

just brew it! wrote:

End User wrote:

Glorious wrote:

LOL, why would he care? The head of the Linux Foundation uses MacOS.

He does? In 2017? Any proof? He had been using a 2016 Dell XPS13 Developer Edition as far as I knew. Before that he used a Sony Vaio Pro 11.

Linus is not the head of the Linux Foundation.

Ja ja. All sorted now.

just brew it! wrote:

End User wrote:

Glorious wrote:

btw that finger was actually for Nvidia

Why the ? It was explicitly stated that he was giving Nvidia the finger at the time.

Holy crap. The funny bit was a picture of Linus showing the finger. End of line. The backstory to that photo (which everybody and their grandmother are aware of) was irrelevant.

End User wrote:

Sigh. No. Internally his company does not deem the OS their product is meant to run on secure enough to offer as a primary OS option on work assigned hardware.

:sigh:

His product is massive-scale enterprise storage. It's not even relevant to desktop linuxing.

Also, as I said and jihadjoe elaborated upon, the HEAD OF THE LINUX FOUNDATION which EXISTS TO PROMOTE ""building sustainable ecosystems around open source projects to accelerate technology development and commercial adoption" was using macOS to show the slides pronouncing 2017 as "officially the year of the Linux desktop"

I don't know where you get your ideas, but they don't appear to have originated on our planet. Especially not when it comes to Corporate America, because you routinely treat the utterly mundane as the most obscurely arcane.

I don't know why you insist on doing it and then doubling-down on it. You obviously have no contact with it whatsoever, so you really just need to stop opining on it.

Apple has released a security update that resolves the issue. High Sierra users will find the update via the App Store Update tab:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208315

Glorious wrote:

pronouncing 2017 as "officially the year of the Linux desktop"

That is the funny bit.

End User wrote:

Apple has released a security update that resolves the issue. High Sierra users will find the update via the App Store Update tab:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208315

Good to see a resolution to this.

It is of interest though, that apparently this critical vulnerability was known of since the 13th, but Apple sat twiddling thumbs about getting a fix out until it went public and blew up. Maybe going public with bugs is the way forward...

jihadjoe wrote:

End User wrote:

Apple has released a security update that resolves the issue. High Sierra users will find the update via the App Store Update tab:

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208315

Good to see a resolution to this.

It is of interest though, that apparently this critical vulnerability was known of since the 13th, but Apple sat twiddling thumbs about getting a fix out until it went public and blew up. Maybe going public with bugs is the way forward...

Where did you get the info regarding the 13th? Apple publicly stated that they found out about the issue yesterday (Nov. 28):

“When our security engineers became aware of the issue Tuesday afternoon, we immediately began working on an update that closes the security hole. This morning, as of 8:00 a.m., the update is available for download, and starting later today it will be automatically installed on all systems running the latest version (10.13.1) of macOS High Sierra.”

https://daringfireball.net/linked/2017/ ... -login-fix

Glorious wrote:

End User wrote:

Sigh. No. Internally his company does not deem the OS their product is meant to run on secure enough to offer as a primary OS option on work assigned hardware.

:sigh:

His product is massive-scale enterprise storage. It's not even relevant to desktop linuxing.

Yup. Our product does not even have a DE installed. It's effectively a bunch of turnkey servers that just happen to have a stripped down Linux distro at their core.

It's not so much a question of it being "secure enough" (though worrying about that is certainly a piece of the puzzle once you throw arbitrary DEs and applications into the mix) as it being another platform that IT would need to support. Another platform which also needs to work seamlessly with all the other internal IT infrastructure that goes with an enterprise computing environment.

Our product doesn't need to log on to VPNs, access printers on the local network, run e-mail clients, or do 99% of the other stuff you'd typically expect to be able to do on a desktop system.

just brew it! wrote:

Glorious wrote:

End User wrote:

Sigh. No. Internally his company does not deem the OS their product is meant to run on secure enough to offer as a primary OS option on work assigned hardware.

:sigh:

His product is massive-scale enterprise storage. It's not even relevant to desktop linuxing.

Yup. Our product does not even have a DE installed. It's effectively a bunch of turnkey servers that just happen to have a stripped down Linux distro at their core.

It's not so much a question of it being "secure enough" (though worrying about that is certainly a piece of the puzzle once you throw arbitrary DEs and applications into the mix) as it being another platform that IT would need to support. Another platform which also needs to work seamlessly with all the other internal IT infrastructure that goes with an enterprise computing environment.

Our product doesn't need to log on to VPNs, access printers on the local network, run e-mail clients, or do 99% of the other stuff you'd typically expect to be able to do on a desktop system.

Good to know.

End User wrote:

Where did you get the info regarding the 13th? Apple publicly stated that they found out about the issue yesterday (Nov. 28):

It was being suggested as a way to get into someone's locked Mac in their own forums on Nov the 13th. Was probably known of for far longer than that.

https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/79235#277225

And yes, I'm aware it was a forum post, but the Apple developer forums are very slow moving, just a couple of posts every few days in any given section. If we can keep up with the TR forums surely the biggest company in the world can have a few people reading their own developer forums.

Apple doesn't monitor those forums, and here's proof.

jihadjoe wrote:

End User wrote:

Where did you get the info regarding the 13th? Apple publicly stated that they found out about the issue yesterday (Nov. 28):

It was being suggested as a way to get into someone's locked Mac in their own forums on Nov the 13th. Was probably known of for far longer than that.

https://forums.developer.apple.com/thread/79235#277225

And yes, I'm aware it was a forum post, but the Apple developer forums are very slow moving, just a couple of posts every few days in any given section. If we can keep up with the TR forums surely the biggest company in the world can have a few people reading their own developer forums.

The bug was a solution to another bug?

Just another day in the life of Helpful Hacker!

just brew it! wrote:

Our product doesn't need to log on to VPNs, access printers on the local network, run e-mail clients, or do 99% of the other stuff you'd typically expect to be able to do on a desktop system.

I'll throw my hat in this ring as well - I have a similar job as jbi and my main dev machine is a Mac for all the same reasons.

Waco wrote:

just brew it! wrote:

Our product doesn't need to log on to VPNs, access printers on the local network, run e-mail clients, or do 99% of the other stuff you'd typically expect to be able to do on a desktop system.

I'll throw my hat in this ring as well - I have a similar job as jbi and my main dev machine is a Mac for all the same reasons.

I have worked for two "startups" in SV and all my (and the rest) of the dev machines have been Macs. It's VERY common in SV for dev machines to be Macs, and then the occasional linux machine for certain people. We always just used VMs for Linux stuff. I'm not complaining. I enjoy macOS.

I strongly dislike MacOS for many reasons...but I need to be able to run *real* Office applications. At least the terminal works as expected.

Waco wrote:

I strongly dislike MacOS for many reasons...but I need to be able to run *real* Office applications. At least the terminal works as expected.

Do you have the option to run W10? The Windows store installations of Ubuntu and the like will get you a bash shell, and you can pretty much install the packages you need for whatever isn't there. Might be an option if you hate macOS that much.

DancinJack wrote:

Waco wrote:

I strongly dislike MacOS for many reasons...but I need to be able to run *real* Office applications. At least the terminal works as expected.

Do you have the option to run W10? The Windows store installations of Ubuntu and the like will get you a bash shell, and you can pretty much install the packages you need for whatever isn't there. Might be an option if you hate macOS that much.

Holy god, no. I won't run Windows in a *nix development environment. I run Windows at home purely for gaming and media consumption.

I'd run some flavor of Linux at work if I didn't have to play with Office applications. I've been more than tempted to run MacOS in a VM on a Linux box...

Two things about virtualizing macOS:

1.) It's not licensed on non-Apple hardware
2.) The lack of graphics acceleration kills the utility. I've done it in VMWare Fusion on my Mac Pro and it's awful.

DancinJack wrote:

Waco wrote:

I strongly dislike MacOS for many reasons...but I need to be able to run *real* Office applications. At least the terminal works as expected.

Do you have the option to run W10? The Windows store installations of Ubuntu and the like will get you a bash shell, and you can pretty much install the packages you need for whatever isn't there. Might be an option if you hate macOS that much.

This is what I do now. It's honestly the greatest thing ever. You get a full desktop with a competent window manager, email and Office, and don't have to fuss around with the annoyances of Linux in a VM (GUI sluggishness, virtualization penalty), Linux as the host OS on a laptop (decreased battery life, constant configurations and tuning), or the horrors of MacOS (poor external display and sleep handling, case insensitive filesystem, ancient GNU versions, slight behavior nuances between Linux/MacOS Terminal, requiring root to listen on certain ports [which differ from Linux?? WHY], etc).

The only thing I've found I can't do is spin up LXC containers. Seems that MS hasn't gotten that far in their kernel. But it's a very impressive nearly-native solution. You should consider it, Waco.

I find it rather odd that you list the case-insensitive filesystem as a drawback of OS X, when you're recommending a Windows solution...

just brew it! wrote:

I find it rather odd that you list the case-insensitive filesystem as a drawback of OS X, when you're recommending a Windows solution...

Bash on Ubuntu on Windows is case-sensitive.

Bash on Ubuntu on Windows is not fully compatible with all binaries especially Oracle JDK.

Multithreaded implementations fail instantaneously or hang indeterminately.

I have to use Oracle JDK and It has to run on a POSIX OS. Has to be mac or linux.

derFunkenstein wrote:

Two things about virtualizing macOS:

1.) It's not licensed on non-Apple hardware
2.) The lack of graphics acceleration kills the utility. I've done it in VMWare Fusion on my Mac Pro and it's awful.

Then Windows in a VM, same difference.
1. I have a Mac Pro...so technically it would be on Apple hardware.
2. I only need Office (Powerpoint and/or Excel occasionally). The rest would be handled by the host OS which is 99% of my day job. I only have to break out Office when I'm asked to do a presentation at a conference or something.

3. X forwarding must absolutely work for various tasks - I have the feeling Windows doesn't handle that very gracefully, but that's just a gut feeling without any basis in fact. Does that work well/at all?

Waco wrote:

3. X forwarding must absolutely work for various tasks - I have the feeling Windows doesn't handle that very gracefully, but that's just a gut feeling without any basis in fact. Does that work well/at all?

I did for a period of time with cygwin. I don't recall any major problems, and it was done with both OpenVMS and Linux X clients.

This was native hardware, windows 7, and I'm not even sure how long ago exactly...

Glorious wrote:

Waco wrote:

3. X forwarding must absolutely work for various tasks - I have the feeling Windows doesn't handle that very gracefully, but that's just a gut feeling without any basis in fact. Does that work well/at all?

I did for a period of time with cygwin. I don't recall any major problems, and it was done with both OpenVMS and Linux X clients.

This was native hardware, windows 7, and I'm not even sure how long ago exactly...

I did the same. W7 in....2008? I think that date is right. I haven't used Cygwin in years though so I can't speak to the state of it.

DancinJack wrote:

I haven't used Cygwin in years though so I can't speak to the state of it.

The last time I used it was probably about 4 years ago.

It still appears to be actively maintained, and claims compatibility with all "modern" versions of Windows (Vista thru 10).

I imagine with the rise of virtualization and native Ubuntu-on-Windows the use case for Cygwin is dwindling though, so who knows how long it will stick around going forward.

Good news, everyone! If you installed the update before macOS 10.13.1, the bug is back!