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That being the case, their refusal is not surprising. A little scummy, but within the letter of their established policies.

If only their stores would sell the original parts, for convenience. I'm more concerned about long-running UI bugs. It's the era of niggling little iOS issues, they seem to be tolerating more sloppiness than was the norm with Jobs around.

The most fascinating thing about this situation, legally, is that while Apple has an explicit one year physical warranty, it has an implicit two year+ unofficial software "warranty" that they were using to address a physical failing according to their own direct admission. So, wow. That has implications beyond the obvious.

And the obvious here is a doozy: Saying you did it to protect customers from degraded batteries is *SERIOUSLY* questionable because what you actually did, slow the performance of the phone, is likely to lead consumers to buy new phones. Moral hazard almost isn't the word, and they did this without informing anyone.

The (perhaps) less obvious is this: If batteries inevitably degrade (Apple's own words: "All rechargeable batteries are consumable components that become less effective as they chemically age and their ability to hold a charge diminishes." and "Of course, when a chemically aged battery is replaced with a new one, iPhone performance returns to normal when operated in standard conditions."), uh-oh. Doesn't that mean that battery replacement is "reasonable and necessary maintenance"?

In fact, Apple already admitted it is! Because the battery isn't user-replaceable, they degraded performance (via an unofficial software warranty) to prevent shutdowns.

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Unfortunately, most of the lawsuits about this are, as always, going to be about pushing a settlement outside of precedent. Shame. This is precisely the kind of consumer suit that should drive jurisprudence towards applying existing consumer-rights law.

That's more of what I want, because some of the "Right-to-repair" push is really just too vague and broad.

Whereas the idea that something is seriously wrong here under existing law is very strong indeed.

But we're already deep in R & P.

just brew it! wrote:

That being the case, their refusal is not surprising. A little scummy, but within the letter of their established policies.

I'm with JBI. They are certainly allowed to refuse service, although it's really boneheaded to do so in this case.

I'm going to take a slightly more pragmatic twist on this: I know it's a pain, but have you tried going to a different Apple store, or speaking with a manager?

Even though they're "geniuses", the Apple Store employees are just following what they're told to do, and sometimes they interpret that information incorrectly. The people you talked to may have truly believed what they told you, but you are correct that the circumstances don't seem to fit. This isn't warranty work, and you're paying for the service (even if subsidized), so third-party replacement shouldn't matter.

Make an appointment with someone else, or at a different store, and if you don't get the answer you're seeking, escalate up the store management chain and see if you can get further.

Since batteries deplete as a function of usage and time, replacement is not just reasonable and necessary for maintenance but for economical long-term operation. As in the case of laser printers, which usually feature drums rated for x thousands of pages. That said, some manufacturers will refuse service if non-OEM cartridges and other parts are installed. Certain firmware would default to stop operation whenever consumables ran low enough to degrade output, but the setting could usually be turned off. OEM parts during product lifetime are generally made available in various channels as well.

In Apple's case, they not only failed to inform users but also did not provide for economic life cycle and other parts/service options, until this rare $29 CSR program arrived.

Buub wrote:

I'm going to take a slightly more pragmatic twist on this: I know it's a pain, but have you tried going to a different Apple store, or speaking with a manager?

That's an idea but my wife's personality skews toward people-pleaser, which means I would have to do it to get any results. And in spite of my annoyance I find that kind of process degrading, since I'm not addressing the persons actually responsible for the flawed policy (i.e., in Cupertino). The two nearest stores are 30 and 45 minutes away, respectively.

At the end of the day I'll probably just buy the iFixIt kit. They've dropped their price to $24.99 to beat out Apple, and it's easier to spend thirty minutes at home solving the problem than an hour and a half tracking down a hapless Apple Store manager and returning home again, possibly still empty-handed.

ludi wrote:

At the end of the day I'll probably just buy the iFixIt kit. They've dropped their price to $24.99 to beat out Apple, and it's easier to spend thirty minutes at home solving the problem than an hour and a half tracking down a hapless Apple Store manager and returning home again, possibly still empty-handed.

I'm in the exact same situation (with a 6S), save the battery was never originally replaced at all. The inconvenience of even going to the store once and knowing they'll fix the phone is prohibitive. Ain't doing it twice, and ain't doing it at all unless it's guaranteed to work.

My Galaxy S4 is 4 years old, I think, and despite being user-replaceable I'm pretty sure I never replaced it. I mean, the life isn't the best, but it seems to be better than the 6S, which is barely two years old.

Oh well. Going to have to do it sometime... urgghhhh

Glorious wrote:

I'm in the exact same situation (with a 6S), save the battery was never originally replaced at all. The inconvenience of even going to the store once and knowing they'll fix the phone is prohibitive. Ain't doing it twice, and ain't doing it at all unless it's guaranteed to work. :lol:

My 6S was eligible for the free battery replacement due to the recall for earlier models. My situation resulted in two visits and it's likely others will be in the same boat. They have so many people buying battery replacements right now they're apparently struggling with stock. So my initial visit just validated I am due a free replacement under the recall and ordered me a battery. I will have to return at some future date once they receive my battery for the actual repair.

Ryu Connor wrote:

My 6S was eligible for the free battery replacement due to the recall for earlier models. My situation resulted in two visits and it's likely others will be in the same boat. They have so many people buying battery replacements right now they're apparently struggling with stock. So my initial visit just validated I am due a free replacement under the recall and ordered me a battery. I will have to return at some future date once they receive my battery for the actual repair.

UGHHHHHHHHHHH


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Is it possible to mail it in or something? I *have* to have work phone (which is an Apple one? The really small one? lol I can't even remember the model--just got it recently) 24/7 anyway, so effectively I can use my personal S4 as loaner. I could make that work, I'd have to, there *needs* to be a phone to replace the 6S because there is no landline in the house but plenty of reasons why one might be needed immediately.... URRGHHHHHHHHH

I'll have to look this up, the complaining is outbalancing my dislike of dealing with it.

I love the replaceable battery in my LG G4.

just brew it! wrote:

I love the replaceable battery in my LG G4.

Just about the last of a dying breed, though. LG G5 had it, but G6 not so much...

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/01 ... port-says/

Apple battery stock issues have made the news.

Glorious wrote:

Is it possible to mail it in or something? I *have* to have work phone (which is an Apple one? The really small one? lol I can't even remember the model--just got it recently) 24/7 anyway, so effectively I can use my personal S4 as loaner. I could make that work, I'd have to, there *needs* to be a phone to replace the 6S because there is no landline in the house but plenty of reasons why one might be needed immediately.... URRGHHHHHHHHH

I'll have to look this up, the complaining is outbalancing my dislike of dealing with it.

You can mail it in. Given the battery shortage issues though, I suspect you'll be without it for a couple of weeks. Fire up a service request from the site below and you should be all set (albeit with the appropriate frustrations for the situation).

https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/service
Send it in
Start a service request

Their site current says,

Repair source Approximate time
Send to Apple 7-9 days

but I suspect that isn't updated all that often.

Expected policy or not, I say the policy -- from whatever company is enforcing it -- is part of a planned obsolescence scheme.

DancinJack wrote:

You can mail it in. Given the battery shortage issues though, I suspect you'll be without it for a couple of weeks. Fire up a service request from the site below and you should be all set (albeit with the appropriate frustrations for the situation).

Ah, so it's looking like I should wait to mail it in for as many months as I can, to avoid the glut.

the ~50 USD discount is good for all of 2018, right?

Anyway, thanks to you and Ryu, I'm glad I didn't just naively go into either situation.

Very much appreciated.

Is the shortage just on the 6 Plus, or multiple models? I have a 6s Plus, but I'd be fine waiting a couple months if it were less hassle.

From what I’ve read is just the 6s+

I'm gonna give props to Timmy C for his answer during their earnings call this week:

https://www.macrumors.com/2018/02/01/ap ... ade-rates/

We did it because we thought it was the right thing to do for our customers. I don't know what effect it will have for our investors. It was not in our thought process of deciding to do what we've done.

I mean, sure, it's all about making sure that when people upgrade, they're confident enough to upgrade to another Apple device, but
I also just like this answer because for just once it shows someone who is not entirely beholden to the almighty dollar. They make enough of those as is, and it seems that Cook is at least semi-aware of that.

derFunkenstein wrote:

I mean, sure, it's all about making sure that when people upgrade, they're confident enough to upgrade to another Apple device, but I also just like this answer because for just once it shows someone who is not entirely beholden to the almighty dollar. They make enough of those as is, and it seems that Cook is at least semi-aware of that.

Dude, it was an earnings call. He has a legit obligation to make them money. He can talk all he wants, and I give Tim props--he does a lot of philanthropic work that a lot of other rich people don't do, but that answer is just words to reporters. Until they stop doing intentionally hostile **** like removing 3.5mm jacks and putting TOUCHBARS ON LAPTOPS and making the most awful keyboards ever (in the new rMBPs) then they're just words.

Dude, it was an earnings call. He has a legit obligation to make them money

Which is why I enjoyed his response. "No, we weren't thinking about you."

Yeah, there are some things that aren't popular (I also miss the 3.5mm headphone jack, in particular) but the only way to tell Apple you don't like their products is to not buy one.

derFunkenstein wrote:

Tim Cook wrote:

We did it because we thought it was the right thing to do for our customers. I don't know what effect it will have for our investors. It was not in our thought process of deciding to do what we've done.

I mean, sure, it's all about making sure that when people upgrade, they're confident enough to upgrade to another Apple device, but I also just like this answer because for just once it shows someone who is not entirely beholden to the almighty dollar. They make enough of those as is, and it seems that Cook is at least semi-aware of that.

I guarantee Apple corporate counsel is already working on defending the inevitable derivative suit(s) arising from Cook admitting that something was done without regard for shareholder value. For the CEO of the largest US corporation (by market capitalization), that was a particularly stupid thing to say during an earnings call.

Oh I don't know about a lawsuit from it. It was good (for users) and incredibly stupid (for investors), but IMO it'll just blow over within a week.

BTW I'm not sure we ever really talked about it in this thread, but AFAIK Apple released an update that lets you turn off the throttling feature now. So at least there's that. Has anyone tried it, and the result was more frequent shutdowns/crashes?

DancinJack wrote:

Oh I don't know about a lawsuit from it. It was good (for users) and incredibly stupid (for investors), but IMO it'll just blow over within a week.

If it indeed turns out to have been "incredibly stupid (for investors)", there will be a lawsuit. With that call as evidence. You can bet on it.

DancinJack wrote:

BTW I'm not sure we ever really talked about it in this thread, but AFAIK Apple released an update that lets you turn off the throttling feature now. So at least there's that. Has anyone tried it, and the result was more frequent shutdowns/crashes?

It’s not out yet. It’ll be part of 11.3. We are on 11.2.5 right now.

Usacomp2k3 wrote:

DancinJack wrote:

BTW I'm not sure we ever really talked about it in this thread, but AFAIK Apple released an update that lets you turn off the throttling feature now. So at least there's that. Has anyone tried it, and the result was more frequent shutdowns/crashes?

It’s not out yet. It’ll be part of 11.3. We are on 11.2.5 right now.

Apologies. I'm using an Android device as my primary right now so I am not as quite in the loop on iOS updates right now. (I did get the updates on my Mac though!)

I'd be very surprised if it comes to that, because I think most people (i.e. non tech-heads) find out they're up for an upgrade and they'll just upgrade blindly. In the US, anyway, I think Apple has nothing to fear.

DancinJack wrote:

Until they stop doing intentionally hostile **** like removing 3.5mm jacks and putting TOUCHBARS ON LAPTOPS and making the most awful keyboards ever (in the new rMBPs) then they're just words.

Geez. It's like you've jumped on every current trendy bandwagon of Apple hate.

DancinJack wrote:

Apologies. I'm using an Android device as my primary right now so I am not as quite in the loop

Ah, that explains it.

I'm very glad my iPhone X has no 3.5mm jack. Good riddance to archaic tech.

I love the Touch Bar and keyboard on my 2017 13" MacBook Pro. Too bad it still has a 3.5mm jack.

End User wrote:

DancinJack wrote:

Until they stop doing intentionally hostile **** like removing 3.5mm jacks and putting TOUCHBARS ON LAPTOPS and making the most awful keyboards ever (in the new rMBPs) then they're just words.

Geez. It's like you've jumped on every current trendy bandwagon of Apple hate.

If Apple wouldn't do stupid sh*t, then people wouldn't hate on them. Different isn't automatically better; sometimes it is just different, and sometimes it is worse. Apple is the one trying to be trendy, just for the sake of being trendy.

Unless you care about your phone being thinner than can reasonably accommodate a 3.5mm jack, omitting it is user hostile.

Touchbar adds cost for no good reason, for something I won't use, and is just one more thing to fail.

I find even the older MBP keyboards pretty infuriating. I plug a standard USB keyboard into my work MBP unless I am working on the bus/train on my way to/from the office, or in a meeting.

Don't even get me started on the Apple Magic mouse. Yuck. The only "magic" is in the form of a curse, if you ask me.