Personal computing discussed

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derFunkenstein
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:14 pm

Glorious wrote:
End User wrote:
I agree with what both Nilay and Dieter (over at The Verge) are saying about the hardware surpassing the OS:


What does that even mean?

Great hardware trapped behind a limited OS, presumably. Maybe when they port macOS to ARM they'll make it an optional install for iPads. :lol:
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DancinJack
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:18 pm

End User wrote:
Up until now I have firmly believed that iPads and iPhones are well served by Wi-Fi to get content both on and off the device. In the Verge video review a member of their team compared 4K encoding on the new iPad Pro to that of his iMac (no specs given). He said the performance was similar. If 4K editing/encoding is possible with the new iPad Pro then transferring that 4K content off of the iPad Pro via 10Gbps USB 3.1 Gen 2 would be very useful.

I think you're forgetting the part where that guy also said that the versions of the apps on the iPad are "nowhere near" as powerful and useful as the full desktop apps.
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:21 pm

blargh4 wrote:
The point about the OS holding back the hardware seems pretty clear. The ipad pro is a very nice piece of hardware. It'd be great if I could replace my laptop with it and, say, plug it into a dock to turn it into a proper computer I can do real work on. In theory, there's no real reason you couldn't. But given the limitations of iOS, I can't

I'd like to see Apple come up with a Samsung DeX like setup using an improved version of iOS when in tablet mode and macOS when docked,
 
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:25 pm

DancinJack wrote:
I think you're forgetting the part where that guy also said that the versions of the apps on the iPad are "nowhere near" as powerful and useful as the full desktop apps.

Perhaps this new hardware will drive a wave of iOS app development - one that takes advantage of the hardware now on offer.
 
Glorious
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:27 pm

blargh4 wrote:
The point about the OS holding back the hardware seems pretty clear. The ipad pro is a very nice piece of hardware. It'd be great if I could replace my laptop with it and, say, plug it into a dock to turn it into a proper computer I can do real work on. In theory, there's no real reason you couldn't. But given the limitations of iOS, I can't, so for my use cases it remains a luxury e-reader.


Then how would it be any different than the laptop you have now?

Wouldn't it just be the laptop you have then?

derfunk wrote:
Great hardware trapped behind a limited OS, presumably.


OK, so *POOF* it isn't limited anymore. Now you just have a laptop, which isn't actually faster than current laptops. Just very competitive in performance, evidently.

Meanwhile, in reality, Apple isn't even listing unit sales anymore (cause they ain't going up). They're clearly going for services and software sales--I'm sure, JUST SURE, that they're getting ready to drop their ~30% cut of all software etc.... sales on the thing.

Like, those "limitations" ain't going away folks.
Last edited by Glorious on Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Glorious
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:28 pm

End User wrote:
Perhaps this new hardware will drive a wave of iOS app development - one that takes advantage of the hardware now on offer.


How will I ever be able to do my work on iOS?

I literally can't, and that's by design.
 
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:31 pm

Glorious wrote:
End User wrote:
Perhaps this new hardware will drive a wave of iOS app development - one that takes advantage of the hardware now on offer.


How will I ever be able to do my work on iOS?

I literally can't, and that's by design.

What do you do?
 
Glorious
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:33 pm

End User wrote:
What do you do?


Among other things, develop applications.
 
derFunkenstein
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:42 pm

What, Swift playgrounds isn't enough? :lol:
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Glorious
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 2:54 pm

It's deeper than that: let's say I could "develop".

Ok, how do I deploy? How does my company use my application? Submit to Apple, or whatever? Seriously? So -ANYONE- can download it?

I mean, it's a consumer device guys. Intentionally. It's not a "limitation" in Apple's eyes, it's THE PURPOSE OF THE THING: services & software monopoly.

Sure, maybe a prosumer can individually use it: You freelance photo and the app photoshop does what you need to photoshop to do in the field.

Enterprise, that is, institutional business? UMM GUYZ: My company has to first beg me to -NOT- update iOS until they "test" it, and then they start begging me to -PLEASE- update iOS after they did!

I mean, imagine someone who grew up with this paradigm: "Files? What are files?"
 
derFunkenstein
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:11 pm

No, come on, you know that's not true. There's been an enterprise deployment option for at least a couple years now:

https://developer.apple.com/programs/enterprise/

Distribute proprietary, in-house iOS, watchOS, and tvOS apps within your organization. Securely host and deploy apps to your employees' devices.
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Glorious
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:14 pm

Derfunk wrote:
No, come on, you know that's not true.


I know that now, cause you just told me.

Thanks!

Derfunk wrote:
There's been an enterprise deployment option for at least a few years now:


I was completely ignorant of this, and I've never heard of it.

My company certainly doesn't use it.

EDIT: It is still built around Apple-ID? How is that managed? This website is like... geared for MBAs that don't ask... questions?

Even the "Learn More" stuff leads me to this nonsense:

Enterprise Blueprint
Apple Inc. - Business
This book is available for download with Apple Books on your Mac or iOS device.


wtf?
Last edited by Glorious on Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
blargh4
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:15 pm

Glorious wrote:
Then how would it be any different than the laptop you have now?

Wouldn't it just be the laptop you have then?.

Well, not until I unplug it and go back to a very thin, light, fast slate. It's a matter of preference of course, but I reach for my 10.5" iPad instead of my MBP 90% of the time when I'm just doing casual non-worky stuff at home or while traveling.

The Surface Pro is close to what my ideal tablet would be capability-wise, but both the hardware and especially Win10's tablet-form user experience (last I checked, which was a few years ago now) are pretty far behind Apple, imo. Guess this market is a bit too dead for anyone to bother giving Apple much competition.
 
Glorious
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:23 pm

blargh4 wrote:
Well, not until I unplug it and go back to a very thin, light, fast slate.


Right, it's a laptop until it's a tablet.

And you want it to be a tablet when you aren't doing "worky" stuff or when you want to just travel.

Hm.

Redocbew wrote:
Isn't the whole point of a tablet that it's a self-containted, easily portable device?


Redocbew wrote:
you could just get a laptop if you needed the device to ackshually be portable without imposing limitations on its use when you're away from the dock.


Redocbew wrote:
Let's assume for now that there is no iOS, and every device Apple makes runs exactly the same operating system. Tablets would still be tablets, and laptops would still be laptops. That's not going to change the dongle-blob required to make a tablet docking station like that work, or change the fact that you only have a touchscreen for input when you're away from the dock.


You talked about deliberate obtuseness before, but it seems like you're describing exactly what Redocbew was explaining.

I think I feel a "Redocbew's Restatement" coming on...
 
Redocbew
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:28 pm

Hey, get out of my head man. :P
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Glorious
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:29 pm

Anyway, I welcome Derfunk's correction to my outright ignorance, but while I was completely wrong and Apple -DOES- have something, it still appears to be pretty limited and not very well explained.

The "wtf" was for Apple, because it wants me to use their ecosystem just to be able to read any details about how exactly this system works!

Yikes.
 
derFunkenstein
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:47 pm

Yes, you are correct that Apple IDs are required. You have to link those to your enterprise account. Basically it's a glorified and somewhat-upgraded TestFlight experience, if you've ever been an internal TestFlight user in your organization. You get a certificate/profile on your device that basically says "this device can install stuff not signed by Apple if it's been signed by XXX developer". Enterprise apps don't expire like TestFlight builds do, though (at least, I don't think so). And you pay for the privilege, because it's like $300 for the organization each year, ON TOP of your store developer accounts.
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End User
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:03 pm

Glorious wrote:
End User wrote:
What do you do?


Among other things, develop applications.

As in day job? Platform?
 
DancinJack
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:04 pm

Yeah, it's definitely better than TestFlight. So bad.

Once you get everything set up and your first version in the store and released, things aren't so bad after that. Getting going is a bit of a pain though.
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Glorious
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:05 pm

End User wrote:
As in day job? Platform?


What?
 
End User
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:09 pm

Glorious wrote:
End User wrote:
What do you do?


Among other things, develop applications.

Apparently not for iOS.
 
Glorious
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:11 pm

End User wrote:
Apparently not for iOS.


No one develops for iOS on iOS.

Because you can't.
 
Glorious
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:21 pm

What are you even asking? What is the point you are making?

My point is obvious: I literally can't do anything like my job on iOS, because Apple has deliberately disallowed it.

Apple has deliberately disallowed tons of fundamental features that general purpose OSes have, you know, like a regular filesystem.

This is because, for the umpteenth time, it is intended as a consumer device that *some* prosumers can individually make limited use of it.

So, in that regard, the lack of "features" -is- a feature: Grandma can't forget where she put her pictures. Granddad can't click "yes" and crytpo-lock -his- pictures.

Institutional Business---Forget it. Enterprise? Apple *BARELY* cares: I try to click on anything that isn't a picture for that subject and I get a link to a book I can only read on "Apple Books." What a joke.
 
derFunkenstein
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:33 pm

Glorious wrote:
Institutional Business---Forget it. Enterprise? Apple *BARELY* cares: I try to click on anything that isn't a picture for that subject and I get a link to a book I can only read on "Apple Books." What a joke.

Well, you can't develop for iOS on a non-Apple platform, either. If you're interested in deploying enterprise apps on iOS, you've got a Mac somewhere that can read the book.
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End User
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 4:40 pm

Glorious wrote:
End User wrote:
Apparently not for iOS.


No one develops for iOS on iOS.

Did I say that? No.

Do you develop for iOS?
 
Glorious
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:28 pm

Derfunk wrote:
Well, you can't develop for iOS on a non-Apple platform, either.


I'm well-aware of this, and we've talked about before.

Derfunk wrote:
If you're interested in deploying enterprise apps on iOS, you've got a Mac somewhere that can read the book.


Not necessarily true.

Years ago someone in my company absolutely was interested in doing that, but no, they didn't have Mac.

More importantly, people like me who would actually be doing that didn't have Macs either.

End User wrote:
Do you develop for iOS?


"Did I say that? No."

But I could have.

Turns out paying thousands for a hardware license dongle known as "Macbook" can be a tough argument when you can develop for android on anything.

Including, in fact, android (not that anyone does, a tablet is still tablet).
 
derFunkenstein
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:49 pm

I agree it's a little weird, but you basically can't do anything for enterprise without a Mac. And if you're hard up for an iBook reader, an iPhone or iPad will do.
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Redocbew
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 5:54 pm

Walled gardens are annoying in most of their variations, so I get it, but if you're going to be developing for a platform, then you really should have the hardware around that it's going to be using. What little I've used the MacOS while developing things I wasn't really developing for the MacOS(or iOS), but I still preferred it to Windows. That's probably just because of my background though.
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End User
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:00 pm

Glorious wrote:
End User wrote:
Do you develop for iOS?


"Did I say that? No."

Ah.


Glorious wrote:
But I could have.

Of course.


Glorious wrote:
Turns out paying thousands for a hardware license dongle known as "Macbook" can be a tough argument when you can develop for android on anything.

Android fanboy flames Apple fanboy in a thread about Apple products in the Apple Sanctuary section of the forums.
 
derFunkenstein
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Re: Another Apple Event - new iPads Pros incoming?

Mon Nov 05, 2018 6:04 pm

Redocbew wrote:
Walled gardens are annoying in most of their variations, so I get it, but if you're going to be developing for a platform, then you really should have the hardware around that it's going to be using. What little I've used the MacOS while developing things I wasn't really developing for the MacOS(or iOS), but I still preferred it to Windows. That's probably just because of my background though.

The whole direction of this discussion just didn't make sense to me, and this is why. Want to develop for Apple? You need Apple hardware. So why would you be unable to read their tract?

BTW a Mac Mini is a fine hardware dongle. At least, now it is finally. The base model is more than enough to build/simulate iOS apps, even with only 128GB of storage.
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