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qmacpoint
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2017 MBP running super-hot on Windows

Sat Nov 03, 2018 11:58 am

Hey guys, I bought an 2017 MBP 15" a couple months ago as a general usage machine, with light gaming on the go(2.9 GHz i7, 1TB SSD, 16 GB RAM, Radeon Pro 560 4GB for $2000 USD, it made sense in 2018, the price is not the point) While I use macOS on the go, and have no problems there, I do the bulk of my serious work under Windows/Boot Camp (while connected to a DisplayLink USB-C dock, so battery cycles are not a concern); however, when I run games, the CPU runs super hot! (Overwatch at 1080p w/ 75% render reaches 90C, Destiny II at 1080 w/ 50% render reaches 98C)

I understand that the thermals in the 2017 model should not be that hot when compared to the 2018 i9 model, and I'm currently thinking on re-pasting the CPU and GPU. Would you say this is the best course of action? Does anyone have experience facing these problems?

Edit: I am aware of fan management solutions like MacsFanControl, and I already use them - otherwise this laptop could be used to fry an egg
 
just brew it!
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Re: 2017 MBP running super-hot on Windows

Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:13 pm

Is the outside of the case also getting really hot, or just the reported CPU temps? If the case is getting unreasonably hot as well, then re-pasting probably won't help; the issue is with the overall thermal solution. Maybe the fan is going bad?

Perhaps OS X does some of its own throttiling (above and beyond what the hardware does internally) to keep temps reasonable, and you're losing this when you're booted into Windows natively?

FWIW my work MBP gets really hot when running Linux kernel compiles (in a Linux VM hosted on top of OS X). They're designed to be thin and lightweight, not for optimal thermal performance...
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blargh4
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Re: 2017 MBP running super-hot on Windows

Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:42 pm

Have you looked at the load temps in MacOS? I'm not sure what the behavior of newer models is, but for whatever it's worth, my 2014 Haswell-era 15" i7 MBP, running MacOS, when pluggged in stays near 100C under multicore loads and throttles clocks/increases fan speed from there, the fan doesn't really even spin up until it's already throttling. There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with it, just seems like Apple prioritized fan noise/performance over thermals.
 
qmacpoint
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Re: 2017 MBP running super-hot on Windows

Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:23 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Is the outside of the case also getting really hot, or just the reported CPU temps? If the case is getting unreasonably hot as well, then re-pasting probably won't help; the issue is with the overall thermal solution. Maybe the fan is going bad?

I can still hold the laptop with no problems, it's the CPU temps that worry me, and also the hiccups that I'm experiencing while playing both Overwatch and Destiny 2, after a while, the gameplay itself starts stuttering until I lower the rendering down (I can do that in OW and keep playing, but not in Destiny 2)

blargh4 wrote:
Have you looked at the load temps in MacOS? I'm not sure what the behavior of newer models is, but for whatever it's worth, my 2014 Haswell-era 15" i7 MBP, running MacOS, when pluggged in stays near 100C under multicore loads and throttles clocks/increases fan speed from there, the fan doesn't really even spin up until it's already throttling. There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with it, just seems like Apple prioritized fan noise/performance over thermals.

I've run Cinebench 15 to stress the CPU and it also goes close to that temperature. So based in your experience, this machine will always stay close to those thermals - I think my next laptop will be one with better thermals for sure :D
 
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Re: 2017 MBP running super-hot on Windows

Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:31 pm

Like I said, MBP is designed to be thin and light. They're not optimizing for thermal performance under heavy load. The CPU throttles as needed to keep things from overheating.

This is why I started offloading kernel compiles to an external build server at my day job. :wink:
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qmacpoint
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Re: 2017 MBP running super-hot on Windows

Sat Nov 03, 2018 6:43 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Like I said, MBP is designed to be thin and light. They're not optimizing for thermal performance under heavy load. The CPU throttles as needed to keep things from overheating.

This is why I started offloading kernel compiles to an external build server at my day job. :wink:

I couldn't say no to it for that price... but I guess you get what you pay for :) :(

Edit: Also I noticed that the stuttering stopped when I switched back to Apple's own Boot Camp drivers instead of AMD's version of Boot Camp drivers (I would assume they would be the same... but it seems not! heh...)
 
derFunkenstein
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Re: 2017 MBP running super-hot on Windows

Sat Nov 03, 2018 8:43 pm

If you mean BootCampDrivers.com those aren't AMD builds. They're somebody doing some .inf hacks and re-signing the drivers so they install on 64-bit Windows. Neither AMD nor Apple have tested them on a Mac running Windows. So I would say it's not totally unexpected. It's unfortunate that official drivers don't get updated very often, though. The rest of the Radeon Pro line gets quarterly updates. Apple does it more like whenever a new model is released.
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qmacpoint
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Re: 2017 MBP running super-hot on Windows

Sun Nov 04, 2018 9:08 pm

Nono, I tried the following:
  • BootCampDrivers.com: Their latest iteration heats the GPU way too much (up to 80C) which in turn overheats the processor to 100C and stuttering appears.
  • AMD Boot Camp Drivers: Can be downloaded from their site - It heats up the card just enough for stuttering to appear, but takes a lot more time than with the BootCampDrivers.com drivers (ugh)
  • Apple's Boot Camp Drivers: Downloaded through the Boot Camp Assistant - Heats up the card a little bit less, and there's no stutter

This is a bit puzzling to me, as the AMD drivers should match the ones in the Boot Camp Assistant, but for some reason they aren't, even though they are promoted as such. With that being said, I think gaming on this is an OK experience at best (mid to low settings at 1080p, w/ fan noise at max), and I only get some weird glitches while doing Alt+Tab (just while I'm switching windows, everything is back to normal once I finish switching)

On top of that, the BootCampDrivers.com version doesn't run through the Setup utility, due to some changes in the AMD installer, which may explain why I had a poor experience with them. I may document all of these experiences in a separate thread lol.

Edit: some grammar :D
Last edited by qmacpoint on Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
jihadjoe
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Re: 2017 MBP running super-hot on Windows

Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:35 pm

That's interesting. So I guess the power/thermal limits/balancing was done through the drivers which made getting the right ones really important.

Perhaps the AMD bootcamp drivers only implemented power/thermal limits for the GPU side?
 
qmacpoint
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Re: 2017 MBP running super-hot on Windows

Sun Nov 04, 2018 10:57 pm

jihadjoe wrote:
That's interesting. So I guess the power/thermal limits/balancing was done through the drivers which made getting the right ones really important.

Perhaps the AMD bootcamp drivers only implemented power/thermal limits for the GPU side?

Yeah that's what I'm thinking - thermally the AMD ones are close to the Apple's ones, but they are probably 1-3C lower, so I think there's some optimization for hot conditions as well.
 
derFunkenstein
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Re: 2017 MBP running super-hot on Windows

Mon Nov 05, 2018 8:27 am

oh, OK. I didn't realize the Boot Camp drivers on AMD's site where different from Apple's. Too bad that even those official drivers overheat your computer, though. :(

Can you adjust the fan profiles or voltage curves with any of the drivers? I don't currently have Windows on my MBP so I can't really check for myself.
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qmacpoint
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Re: 2017 MBP running super-hot on Windows

Mon Nov 05, 2018 3:31 pm

derFunkenstein wrote:
oh, OK. I didn't realize the Boot Camp drivers on AMD's site where different from Apple's. Too bad that even those official drivers overheat your computer, though. :(

Can you adjust the fan profiles or voltage curves with any of the drivers? I don't currently have Windows on my MBP so I can't really check for myself.

Yeah I was surprised when the stuttering stopped when using the ones from Apple, wonder what the big fruit did to the drivers. Even though they are the same version, there's something different about them. I removed them with DDU to install both separately and I can confirm at 100% that the Apple ones are quite alright...

I do think I will have to play with the voltage curves to get the same performance at a lower power consumption and hopefully, a lower heat exchange! But I am not sure of undervolting the CPU because XTU is horrible and gave me a lot of headaches (I cannot regain Speed Shift unless I use ThrottleStop now). Ideally I should undervolt both CPU/GPU to decrease the overall heat generated - A single pipe of those dimensions is not enough for those thermals.

OR should I cut holes in the chassis to increase the fan intake! (j/k! but to be honest, Apple should focus on increasing the air intake if they're going to keep such a slim profile)
 
qmacpoint
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Re: 2017 MBP running super-hot on Windows

Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:11 pm

Just an update - I've managed to lower the clock speeds with ThrottleStop to a respectable high 70's Celsius... This is far from ideal, but at least Overwatch doesn't scorch my computer to Ashe...s (get it? no? ok)

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