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One of the things that is really preventing me in getting an Apple product aside from an iPod/iPhone is that I hate to have the gut-wrenching feeling of having obsolete or outdated modeled laptops whenever Steve Jobs pulls somethings at at conference. This is especially true if you sink in 2 grand or so for a computer that you thought was going to be top-of-the-line for at least a while.

Other computer hardware (non-Apple) never will probably get that type of feeling because frankly I see the whole positive aspect of Apple products is really the bling-factor. Anybody else in the same boat as me? I know some TRs here had that feeling and (some) gave into it and opened their wallets...

Sorry, not me. Apple products are designed very nice, the best out there in terms of aesthetics. But here's the rub. I like Windows. It does what I want it to and it's stable. I have no desire to move to OS X.

For me, what I like about PCs are that I can buy the components myself, and build the machine myself. For me that is half the fun of computers, and why Macs have no appeal to me what so ever. I don't care about aesthetics, I'd be quite happy with a beige box (though black is quite nice).

Now I admit that you can't really do that with laptops, but I still don't see the point in giving money to a company that likes to lock things down like Apple does while there are alternatives.

Just because Apple comes out with something new and shiny doesn't mean you have to upgrade. Certainly, Apple has a higher than average tendency to stop updating less than current products. But they still update and support products longer than other industries. The computer industry is actually not typical when it comes to support post-sales.

As for the other comments, just because you don't see value in Apple products as an enthusiast doesn't mean they might not be to someone else. I like tweaking stuff as much as the next enthusiast but I've personally gotten to the point where I just want something to work. Then there's WAF and GAF. Do you want to spend all your time troubleshooting your wife or girlfriend's computer? Better yet, does she want you doing that all the time. Unless you have a very strange SO, probably not. Apple computers are very good at working without issue.

My Mac Mini is awesome for what it is. iPhoto is an awesome program for a piece of software that comes with a computer. I could go on. There just isn't anything equal on the PC side to the experience you get with a Mac. I can understand the desire to have the latest and greatest Mac but unless you're independently wealthy you're better off just watching and wishing.

Excuse me, but just WTF is this thread about?

The "rub" is that Apple is using standard desktop hardware. It's affected no more or less than your beloved Dell. This thread smells like a troll, so I'm going to leave it at that.

derFunkenstein wrote:

Excuse me, but just WTF is this thread about?

The "rub" is that Apple is using standard desktop hardware. It's affected no more or less than your beloved Dell. This thread smells like a troll, so I'm going to leave it at that.

Not that I'm a fan of Dell (quite the opposite actually) but Dell doesn't charge nearly as much money for most of their hardware. In fact, if you want to buy an el cheapo every day system, you can, where are the cheap systems from Mac? You can only buy fancy ones. Of course, I will agree that quality on Dell is inferior but your average Joe-sixpack probably doesn't care much for the fancy casing. Personally, I couldn't care less if my machine is all blinged out like Apple products.

If you're going to cry about buying a "fancy system" I would rather you stick to using Windows. The experience isn't worth the money to you, apparently. That's fine. But don't whine because you have to pay more to get a better experience.

Synchromesh wrote:

derFunkenstein wrote:

Excuse me, but just WTF is this thread about?

The "rub" is that Apple is using standard desktop hardware. It's affected no more or less than your beloved Dell. This thread smells like a troll, so I'm going to leave it at that.

Not that I'm a fan of Dell (quite the opposite actually) but Dell doesn't charge nearly as much money for most of their hardware. In fact, if you want to buy an el cheapo every day system, you can, where are the cheap systems from Mac? You can only buy fancy ones. Of course, I will agree that quality on Dell is inferior but your average Joe-sixpack probably doesn't care much for the fancy casing. Personally, I couldn't care less if my machine is all blinged out like Apple products.

If you wanna compare Dell with Apple, look at their XPS line. That isn't cheap at all once you match the features offered by the rough mac equivalent.

Adi

I'd like to add that my computer lives in my living room. Therefore it's important to my wife that it doesn't look like ass.

derFunkenstein wrote:

I'd like to add that my computer lives in my living room. Therefore it's important to my wife that it doesn't look like ass.

Just hide it behind the TV, or under the desk. Tell her its the best you can do. She'll never know the difference


BTW, I tried keeping my sister from getting a MB. She went that route because "I don't want to pick between all the choices." Sometimes you just can't save people money.

Just because a new model is out doesn't mean your old one is going to vanish. It just means that something better is out there.

Don't you think you can say the same thing about almost everything? Case in point, I bought my Dell XPS m1710 for around $3600 exactly two years ago. In the following two years they've updated with far more powerful components and mine wouldn't even compare to the current top of the line. But that doesn't make mine any less capable.

If you are going to whine over something this trivial, I imagine you are going to be whining a lot.

Hey,

In my house we have both Mac and PC. I build my own PC and pretty much maintain my wife's Mac that she uses for video/photo editing. She's a pro, but her computer is older. Here's my "rub", she would like to move to the new versions of Adobe CS and Final Cut Pro. Her older Mac is technically capable of handling them, but in order to do so she needs the newest OSX. No other compatability exists. But, the new OSX is not compatable with her older Mac... so her $1500 software upgrade will require a $2500-3500 hardware upgrade.

I am not saying this doesn't happen with PC, only that this magnitude of upgrade is almost unheard there. And the sad thing is that it didn't used to be that way. In the '90s, there was a real Mac enthusiast community that seemed to support the same incremental upgrade ideas and customization current to PC, and it seemed to be supported by AppleCo. I don't have that sense anymore.

Please,

highlandr wrote:

Just hide it behind the TV, or under the desk. Tell her its the best you can do. She'll never know the difference

Which says nothing for the fact that I really do like OS X (ten! ten! ten!) anyway. I was thinking it might be a fad, but we're over 4 years into this experiment. I'd think the novelty would have worn off by now.

I think there are too many people who don't wish to understand why someone's willing to pay more for something better.

ericfulmer, Adobe CS and FCP only require Tiger (10.4.11, which is a free upgrade from 10.4.0 and later). You don't need to go drop $130 on 10.5.

There's a pretty good technical reason for all this - it's that these new apps are Intel/PPC universal binaries. 10.3.9 got a "patch" for universal binary support, but it's really sub-par. You really do want Tiger or later.

Hey,

I guess the point I want to make is that understanding the technical reason for a situation doesn't preclude a person from feeling dissatisfied with that situation.

adisor19 wrote:

Synchromesh wrote:

derFunkenstein wrote:

Excuse me, but just WTF is this thread about?

The "rub" is that Apple is using standard desktop hardware. It's affected no more or less than your beloved Dell. This thread smells like a troll, so I'm going to leave it at that.

Not that I'm a fan of Dell (quite the opposite actually) but Dell doesn't charge nearly as much money for most of their hardware. In fact, if you want to buy an el cheapo every day system, you can, where are the cheap systems from Mac? You can only buy fancy ones. Of course, I will agree that quality on Dell is inferior but your average Joe-sixpack probably doesn't care much for the fancy casing. Personally, I couldn't care less if my machine is all blinged out like Apple products.

If you wanna compare Dell with Apple, look at their XPS line. That isn't cheap at all once you match the features offered by the rough mac equivalent.

Adi

Why? How many people actually buy an Apple and use even 90% of what it's capable of or use exclusive features all the time? I bet the numbers are small. A lot of people buy it because it's blingy and trendy. Most of the people who bought an Apple could just as well live with something cheaper.

I don't have a problem with somebody buying a better system if they want to. If you can afford it, go for it. I just dislike Apple's strategies in screwing their customers anyway they can with lowering prices suddenly (remember early iphones?) and generally having the "our way or the highway" approach. As a customer and enthusiast that pisses me off, which is why I refuse to buy their products, even if they're not necessarily inferior to others on the market. And if they went bankrupt tomorrow I would proverbially dance on their proverbial grave.

i dunno, i find apple products tend to age better than PCs because they tend to be using faster hardware to begin with, and OSX requires less powerful hardware to run.

My macbook pro is 2.4 ghz C2D, 4gb RAM 1920x1200 screen 8600GT graphics and a 160gb 7200 RPM drive. it's 18 months old. what's the fastest apple is selling now, a 2.6 ghz?

I'm not going to think about upgrading again until they drop a machine with nehalem and a blu ray drive. I don't really feel like i'm missing out on anything.

it's pretty badass a running games through bootcamp too.

This thread seems a little pointless to me because, what you just explained is the nature of the beast. New technology is constantly being released, and no matter what you buy, I guarantee you there will be a better, faster, cheaper version of it coming out soon. I never really felt that "gut-wrenching feeling" about Apple (or most tech for that matter). I'm pleased with their support of older products. If you can't stand the thought of dropping 2 grand because of what's coming up next, then don't buy. Or, time your purchase around new releases, but you won't be content, you'll always be wanting something new...

ericfulmer wrote:

I build my own PC and pretty much maintain my wife's Mac that she uses for video/photo editing. She's a pro, but her computer is older. Here's my "rub", she would like to move to the new versions of Adobe CS and Final Cut Pro. Her older Mac is technically capable of handling them, but in order to do so she needs the newest OSX. No other compatability exists. But, the new OSX is not compatable with her older Mac... so her $1500 software upgrade will require a $2500-3500 hardware upgrade.

That's...simply not true. OS X hasn't dropped support for computers since 10.4 came out, and if your machine isn't supported by 10.4 it's gotta be near-useless for a professional.

SNM's right - if the machine isn't new enough to have come with Tiger (and therefore not require an OS upgrade to be able to run FCPro or Adobe CS4), it's probably not all that useful for a graphic/video pro in the first place. A handful of G5 machines MAY be the exception, but they are all totally outclassed multiple times over by a $599 Mini (or $499, if you buy Apple factory refurb).

That's not to say they're not useful at all - I just picked up a dual-1GHz PowerMac G4 that's going to make an outstanding backup server (that bitch is loud, but it only cost me $20 and an hour of my time to do some fan swaps to bring the noise WAY down). It shipped with 10.2 but needs 10.4 or better to support network TimeMachine backups, and since I have to pop for an OS upgrade anyway I might as well pick up Leopard.

Hey,

I think my point has been clear all along. The originator of this thread was describing a feeling in response to facts as observed. I related my own feeling and the facts as I observed them. Your arguments that the feeling is invalid because you have observed the facts differently is irrelevant.

Here are my facts: the computer is used for professional video/photo editing, it runs on OSX 10.4.something (I am not in front of it to check), we have reviewed the hardware specs of the newest and upcoming versions of critical software and we will need to upgrade the entire computer, and that doesn't bother me as I was planning on the purchase (gotta do my part to stimulate the economy)...

However, I can relate to the originator's feeling that he always feels like he is buying new hardware and a few weeks or months later there is something better/faster/prettier and he can't just install it. He needs to buy a whole new it. As I said, this happens in the PC world also, but it doesn't feel the same.

The "Apple premium" isn't in the base hardware anymore. It's in the adapters they force onto the consumers for zero reason. The use of mini-DVI and Mini Displayport are just... well they really are an example of a company abusing the consumer a bit. There is absolutely zero reason why they can't use the normal versions of those ports, other notebooks do with zero issue, so why not Apple?

Otherwise, if you're buying a premium notebook like a MacBook or Dell XPS you pay more period. It really comes down to what applications you use and if you like OS X or Windows more. I'm a Windows person to be quite honest, so a Windows computer is right for me. Some people like OS X, that's cool too. Just pick what you want. No real need to evangelize one OS or the other.

As Apple products going out of day... the point, seriously? A product is out of date when it can no longer perform the functions you need it to do. Otherwise you're better off not caring about what the latest chipset, processor or whatever just came onto the market. Apple is quite honestly MUCH more consumer focused than anything else these days, just see their products and the marketing.

You know, there is another option, instead of having the generation that's about to be obsoleted...

Get the generation that's 5 or so generations back, like I did, with an iBook G4 1.2GHz. Then you won't have the feeling that your computer is about to be replaced.

(Then again, don't do what I did, because when 10.6 comes out, it truly will be obsolete...)

Glass MacBook
MacBook C2D i965
MacBook C2D i945
MacBook C-D i945
iBook G4 12" 1.33GHz
iBook G4 12" 1.2GHz

it runs on OSX 10.4.something

Then your "fact" that it needs an OS upgrade to run CS4 or Final Cut Pro 6 is not a fact - it's exactly what a fact isn't, because facts are true. The rest of your argument about what HAS to be a 4-ish+ year old machine is irrelevant.

lordtottuu wrote:

Don't you think you can say the same thing about almost everything?

Alex wrote:

This thread seems a little pointless to me because, what you just explained is the nature of the beast. New technology is constantly being released, and no matter what you buy, I guarantee you there will be a better, faster, cheaper version of it coming out soon. I never really felt that "gut-wrenching feeling" about Apple (or most tech for that matter). I'm pleased with their support of older products. If you can't stand the thought of dropping 2 grand because of what's coming up next, then don't buy. Or, time your purchase around new releases, but you won't be content, you'll always be wanting something new...

Basically my feeling to this thread as well. You can say the same for almost any higher end hardware, especially near the time they are about to be replaced by new generation parts (8800GTX Ultra anyone?). You can develop the same gut-wrenching feeling if you keep watching those "future stuff", tight on money, but still want to spend.

lordtottuu wrote:

If you are going to whine over something this trivial, I imagine you are going to be whining a lot.

Haven't you noticed those "let's look at today's future-looking hardware announcements today! me want one!" posts from our dear OP?

Seriously, learn to buy something and enjoy it. By the time you start earning money, you would be able to afford to buy stuff a bit more often.

bhtooefr wrote:

Get the generation that's 5 or so generations back, like I did, with an iBook G4 1.2GHz. Then you won't have the feeling that your computer is about to be replaced.

You and your crazy ploys to break my mind! Shooo!

Here's the thing, a 4 year old Mac is going to have some resale value. A 4 year old PC won't.

I sold a 3 year old Mac Pro (1.8GHz G4) for about 3/5ths what I paid for it. I have no idea why, but people will pay a premium for used Macs. A used PC is better being parted out and sold by pieces.

Thresher wrote:

Here's the thing, a 4 year old Mac is going to have some resale value. A 4 year old PC won't.

I sold a 3 year old Mac Pro (1.8GHz G4) for about 3/5ths what I paid for it. I have no idea why, but people will pay a premium for used Macs. A used PC is better being parted out and sold by pieces.

That's true (sadly). For some strange reason there are people out there that are willing to pay a premium for old Apple hardware. Craigslist is becoming notorious for overpriced used Apple stuff. But considering that a PC would probably cost much less to begin with you might be just about breaking even depreciationwise. Plus you got lucky because 3/5ths is a good sale for a G4-based system.

Actually, since you just sold a G4, I was wondering, is there any particular reason people started getting rid of their G4 and G5 based systems within last 2-3 weeks? I see tons of them on Craigslist, what gives? Cheaper new Macbooks or something?

Snow Leopard (10.6) will be Intel-only.

I think G4 towers are awesome for servers. That's why I picked mine up.

Let me just add that Apple actually updates their hardware lines less often than PC makers. This is probably because they don't need to as they're using the top of the line hardware at the time they come out. And as such, as has already been stated, Apple computers tend to have greater longevity as being "usable" than their PC counterparts.

Again, just because Apple comes out with something new and shiny doesn't mean you need it. If your machine still serves it's purpose then why replace it? Unless you have the money to burn each time its really futile to upgrade every cycle.

derFunkenstein wrote:

I think G4 towers are awesome for servers. That's why I picked mine up.

And I'd rather grab free P3-era desktops for that - people throw out P3 era stuff, they don't throw out G4 stuff.

(But, my next server is going to be a from-scratch build... Intel D945GCLF2 mobo (Atom 330,) Mini-Box M200 case, a couple gigs of RAM, and two Seagate or Samsung 500GB laptop drives in RAID-1 (whoever has the lowest power consumption.) This build is going to be all about low power, yet still future proof...)