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coolflame57
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Extremely Loud PSU fan

Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:40 pm

Hi guys,
Here is my system:
AMD A8-6600K (gift from a friend who got it for free at comic-con lol)
MSI A78M-E35
Samsung 840 EVO
1TB WD caviar Blue
8gb g.skill 2133 mhz ram
2 140?mm fans that came with my bitfenix survivor case
stock AMD cooling fan
and lastly a corsair CX430.

It should be noted that I have NO GPU, and so I'm not even CLOSE to pushing the limits of my PSU.

As of around 2 weeks ago, I noticed my computer being extremely loud. I just thought it would go away after a while, since the CPU cooler gets really loud at times. When it didn't go away, I opened it up and investigated. I stopped the CPU cooler fan (not recommended but whatever), and the noise continued. I stopped the other case fans and they did not contribute to the noise. I really do not suspect a hard drive vibration causing this noise, the case has anti-vibration mounts and the noise did not change when I changed the orientation of the case, so that leaves only the PSU fan.

I was looking online about solutions to this problem, and there are multiple guides online about taking apart the PSU and lubricating the fan with mineral oil. I looked around the house and asked my dad whether we had any and he said that we definitely did, I just didn't remember where we got it. He then pointed to stainless steel cleaner. This http://www.spraywayinc.com/sites/all/themes/theme687/msds/sw841.pdf is the exact cleaner we have, which indeed does have mineral oil in it. However, I am afraid that if I use this as a lubricant, the other ingredients i.e. acetone, propane, methyl acetate, petroleum, will corrode the fan. Am I just being over cautious, or will these evaporate out if I leave it to dry for a while after lubrication?
 
Captain Ned
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Sat Mar 05, 2016 8:48 pm

Don't be putting that stuff in your PSU fan. Either replace the fan or replace the PSU.
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Voldenuit
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Sat Mar 05, 2016 10:15 pm

What captain Ned said.

If the oil you use is flammable, you could burn down your house.

If you're not careful when disassembling a PSU, you could jolt yourself on an undisharged capacitor and hurt or even kill yourself.

You can find good deals for quality PSUs from $40-80. Not worth dying or burning over.
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bthylafh
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Sat Mar 05, 2016 11:08 pm

It'd be pretty easy to put the oil on wrong and spray the inside of your PSU and whatever's behind your computer with mineral oil. I shouldn't bother.

Many years ago at the computer shop we'd replace PSU fans sometimes. Procedure was to unplug the thing and let it sit at least an hour to discharge, open it up, unscrew the fan, cut its wires off as close to the fan as possible, then splice a standard 80mm case fan's* wires to the remainder of the original fan's wires, wrap the splices in electrical tape, then reassemble. Pretty much always worked the first time, really simple.


* this being when nearly all PSUs and cases used 80mm fans, circa 2002-2004 and on many older machines besides. IIRC these were all 2-pin units, no monitoring or RPM control.
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Sat Mar 05, 2016 11:39 pm

Just buy a new PS with a 120mm fan(dont get smaller), one that idles fan at low temps if you can. $30-40 is nothing compared to having to buy a new computer.

Can go for a passive PS if you have good airflow for it with case fans. Passive does not mean no air flow, unless you really know what you are doing.

Or, just stress your system with real stress software, check temperature of PS exhaust. Than just swap out the fan with a known good one. And stress again and make sure it can handle everything. I've swapped mine with another 120mm when it started making noise. New one runs a little hotter, but its also quieter and i never get close to what full stress test does. Just run it for 20 min or something, not a couple, to make sure everything is baked hot...
 
coolflame57
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:33 pm

bthylafh wrote:
It'd be pretty easy to put the oil on wrong and spray the inside of your PSU and whatever's behind your computer with mineral oil. I shouldn't bother.

Many years ago at the computer shop we'd replace PSU fans sometimes. Procedure was to unplug the thing and let it sit at least an hour to discharge, open it up, unscrew the fan, cut its wires off as close to the fan as possible, then splice a standard 80mm case fan's* wires to the remainder of the original fan's wires, wrap the splices in electrical tape, then reassemble. Pretty much always worked the first time, really simple.


* this being when nearly all PSUs and cases used 80mm fans, circa 2002-2004 and on many older machines besides. IIRC these were all 2-pin units, no monitoring or RPM control.


If I could use a syringe to control the spray and follow what you said to do here but lubricate the fan instead, would I be at risk of either damaging myself or the PSU?
 
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:51 pm

You don't listen do you.
 
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Sun Mar 06, 2016 6:54 pm

Rageypoo wrote:
You don't listen do you.

Agreed. For bloody 'ell just spend the dosh on an new PSU.
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:24 pm

coolflame57 wrote:
If I could use a syringe to control the spray and follow what you said to do here but lubricate the fan instead, would I be at risk of either damaging myself or the PSU?

No amount of spraying will get sufficient amounts of lubricant where it is really needed unless you expose the fan bearings. The bearings are designed to minimize contamination by environmental dust, and this will also prevent the lubricant spray from reaching them. To properly lubricate the fan bearings, you need to at least partially disassemble the *fan*, which means disassembling the PSU, to get at the fan to disassemble it.

As others have noted, there can be hazardous voltages in the PSU even after it has been turned off and unplugged. YOU CAN INJURE OR EVEN KILL YOURSELF IF YOU ARE NOT CAREFUL. Unless you have prior training/experience working with line voltage equipment or wiring, working inside the PSU is risky.

If the fan is making noise, it has already suffered mechanical wear, which means there is debris from this wear on the rotor shaft and in the bearings. Additional lubricant may get you a few more weeks or months if you're lucky, but the fan is already damaged, and should be replaced (or at least disassembled and cleaned, to remove the debris), if you are really dead set on continuing to use it.
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:09 pm

Kansas Teen Electrocuted While Working on Computer
SHAWNEE, Kan. -- Authorities say that a Shawnee, Kansas, teenager was killed after he was electrocuted by his computer's power supply.

According to police, the unidentified 16-year-old boy was apparently working on the unplugged computer at his home in August when he got into the computer's power supply when he was electrocuted.

Experts say that the power supply is made up of capacitors which can hold a dangerous electrical charge for several hours or even several weeks - even after being unplugged. Josh Clark, a computer expert with IT Central Computer Repair in Kansas City says that he has heard of people being shocked by a computer power supply, but not dying.

"I haven't heard of anybody dying from it, but I guess it could happen," said Clark. "Electricity, you know, is not something you want to mess with."

Clark advices following the safety instructions printed on stickers on the backs of computers.

Police have not released the identity of the teen out of respect for the family.

Source: fox4kc
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bthylafh
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:58 pm

When he sees a path to ground through your body, Mr. Electricity is not your friend.
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Mon Mar 07, 2016 2:06 am

As the fan's bearing seal (which is usually a rubber plug or even just a sticker) is nearly always on the exhaust side of the fan, you can usually lubricate any (non-FDB) PSU exhaust fan without disassembly of the PSU or breaking warranty stickers--provided it has a removable, screw-on fan grille.

Unfortunately the OP's CX430 has only an intake fan so they'd have to access the far side of the fan, which would require removal of the PSU's lid. It's possible to handle only the lid without needlessly sticking fingers into the PSU's guts but of course not all people can be trusted to do this.

Cheapo sleeve-bearing fans can be kept alive for decades with just a drop or two of oil every few years, and reviews of the time show the CX430 had just such a fan: Yate Loon D12SH-12 120x120x25mm 12v 2200rpm 88.0cfm 40dB two sleeve bearings. It doesn't have a rated lifetime spec but most sleeve-bearing fans last 30k-40k hours at 50-60deg C until the oil breaks down, so oiling them every three years of use is reasonable. There's normally no need to replace such a fan but one that has been run dry for a long time is damaged, plus you may prefer a longer-life one to reduce future maintenance.
 
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:43 am

Corsair CX430s go for $20 after MIR. Just buy a new PSU.
Alternatively you could look at the Corsair CS450M which is modular and 80+ gold efficiency and can be found for $30 after MIR on newegg. These are my preferred budget build PSUs.
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Mon Mar 07, 2016 12:00 pm

The problem is that the fan is already noisy so it's damaged. Oiling it will not fix it and is as dangerous as replacing it so the two options are:

1) Replace the fan yourself (dangerous)
2) Replace the PSU yourself (safe)

I've had a couple of 240V mains shocks before. One was avoidable and my fault, the second was not and it was just as unpleasant as the first. Needless to say I needed medical treatment; Not sure about the US 110V system but elsewhere in the world mains shocks are more than capable of causing instant death.
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:13 pm

Shocks from 120V are a little less likely to find their way to ground due to the lower voltage, but are still plenty deadly. I've never gotten a full unload from the line, but I've had a couple times where I brush the line ungrounded and just the capacitive load from the body is enough to make it un-fun.
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Mon Mar 07, 2016 4:53 pm

coolflame57 wrote:
bthylafh wrote:
It'd be pretty easy to put the oil on wrong and spray the inside of your PSU and whatever's behind your computer with mineral oil. I shouldn't bother.

Many years ago at the computer shop we'd replace PSU fans sometimes. Procedure was to unplug the thing and let it sit at least an hour to discharge, open it up, unscrew the fan, cut its wires off as close to the fan as possible, then splice a standard 80mm case fan's* wires to the remainder of the original fan's wires, wrap the splices in electrical tape, then reassemble. Pretty much always worked the first time, really simple.


* this being when nearly all PSUs and cases used 80mm fans, circa 2002-2004 and on many older machines besides. IIRC these were all 2-pin units, no monitoring or RPM control.


If I could use a syringe to control the spray and follow what you said to do here but lubricate the fan instead, would I be at risk of either damaging myself or the PSU?


No.

As others have said, this is a terrible idea. First off, because it's going to be next to impossible to get any sort of lubricant where it's actually going to make a difference. Second, and far more important, there is far too great a risk of starting a fire or electrocuting yourself in the process.

As annoying as it may be - and it's never fun to drop $50 on a part when you think you can fix it - the responsible thing to do here is buy a new PSU. If you have any kind of warranty on the machine and can wait a bit, maybe try getting it replaced by the manufacturer. But seriously don't go spraying anything into it, or taking it apart, or anything else like that. This is one of those things where messing up could kill you or someone else.
 
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:10 pm

biffzinker wrote:
"I haven't heard of anybody dying from it, but I guess it could happen," said Clark. "Electricity, you know, is not something you want to mess with."



Gotta admit after tearing into hundreds of PC power supplies myself to salvage electrical components, I have never heard of anyone dying unless the jack*** left it plugged in. That being said, the article is pretty vague and it is highly possible that the "power supply" in question was crt power circutry. The source after all is Fox.
 
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:27 pm

Deanjo wrote:
Gotta admit after tearing into hundreds of PC power supplies myself to salvage electrical components, I have never heard of anyone dying unless the jack*** left it plugged in. That being said, the article is pretty vague and it is highly possible that the "power supply" in question was crt power circutry. The source after all is Fox.

This.

I understand you don't want to give everyone the advice to go tearing into a PSU, but it's pretty easy to discharge them (just unplug them and let them sit for a few minutes and/or try to fire up your PC with it unplugged). It's not hard to open up a fan to lubricate the bearings, but you want to use lubricating oil, not just something that happens to have mineral oil in it...
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Mon Mar 07, 2016 6:48 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
Rageypoo wrote:
You don't listen do you.

Agreed. For bloody 'ell just spend the dosh on an new PSU.


Unfortunately yes. :/

For clarification, I wouldn't just be opening up a PSU and spraying the fan with this polish.
This http://www.dansdata.com/fanmaint.htm is most likely what I would do.
bfg-9000 wrote:
Cheapo sleeve-bearing fans can be kept alive for decades with just a drop or two of oil every few years, and reviews of the time show the CX430 had just such a fan: Yate Loon D12SH-12 120x120x25mm 12v 2200rpm 88.0cfm 40dB two sleeve bearings. It doesn't have a rated lifetime spec but most sleeve-bearing fans last 30k-40k hours at 50-60deg C until the oil breaks down, so oiling them every three years of use is reasonable. There's normally no need to replace such a fan but one that has been run dry for a long time is damaged, plus you may prefer a longer-life one to reduce future maintenance.


It has been around four years since I built this thing so I guess if this maintenance is due then I will do it so long as I can do it safely.

Waco wrote:
Deanjo wrote:
I understand you don't want to give everyone the advice to go tearing into a PSU, but it's pretty easy to discharge them (just unplug them and let them sit for a few minutes and/or try to fire up your PC with it unplugged). It's not hard to open up a fan to lubricate the bearings, but you want to use lubricating oil, not just something that happens to have mineral oil in it...


This. I think I can get some lubricating oil... provided it's under $20, if not then I'll buy a new PSU.
 
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:26 pm

DPete27 wrote:
Corsair CX430s go for $20 after MIR. Just buy a new PSU.
Alternatively you could look at the Corsair CS450M which is modular and 80+ gold efficiency and can be found for $30 after MIR on newegg. These are my preferred budget build PSUs.


"$20 after MIR"-Take away $10 for profits-transport-packaging-gives you around $10 worth of PSU.
You don't get ANY quality components for that price...............

NEVER CHEAP OUT ON PSU-IT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF ANY BUILD.

Nice PSU in your sig there..............................................
 
coolflame57
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:37 pm

HERETIC wrote:
DPete27 wrote:
Corsair CX430s go for $20 after MIR. Just buy a new PSU.
Alternatively you could look at the Corsair CS450M which is modular and 80+ gold efficiency and can be found for $30 after MIR on newegg. These are my preferred budget build PSUs.


"$20 after MIR"-Take away $10 for profits-transport-packaging-gives you around $10 worth of PSU.
You don't get ANY quality components for that price...............

NEVER CHEAP OUT ON PSU-IT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT PART OF ANY BUILD.

Nice PSU in your sig there..............................................


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139026
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Story5&reid=239

What do you mean?
 
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Mon Mar 07, 2016 7:53 pm

coolflame57 wrote:
This. I think I can get some lubricating oil... provided it's under $20, if not then I'll buy a new PSU.


Your fan is already irreparably damaged.

You can only keep sleeve bearing fans going if you oil them *before* they start making terrible noises.

Lubricating it won't do anything for more than a few weeks at best, a few hours at worst; If you're prepared to ignore all the good advice to buy new PSU, spend the $20 on another fan and a basic soldering iron. Don't waste it on trying to fix a fan that cost less than $1 to produce in the first place.
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:04 pm

@heretic:
As I said, I don't prefer the CX430 when you can get the CS450M for only $10 more. Obviously these aren't tip top quality psu's with 100% Japanese caps blah blah, but I think they're up to the task, and are MUCH better than the no-name units. I'd pick the CS450M over an 80+ bronze unit from any manufacturer even ones at twice the cost. That said, I think we'd all be surprised how little the BoM for our favorite PSUs actually are. Corsair is likely selling cx430/cs450ms by the boatload also in contrast to higher end offerings, so there's undoubtedly volume savings happening there.

Regarding my EVGA 550 G2. Yes, it's one of THE best psus in its class right now (i did a LOT of research) .....$50-$60 after MIR on periodic sales....Seasonic 660XP2 = $80 after MIR...and yet, look at what these sell for the other 90% of the time. see what I mean about profiteering?
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:22 pm

Waco wrote:
Deanjo wrote:
Gotta admit after tearing into hundreds of PC power supplies myself to salvage electrical components, I have never heard of anyone dying unless the jack*** left it plugged in. That being said, the article is pretty vague and it is highly possible that the "power supply" in question was crt power circutry. The source after all is Fox.

This.

I understand you don't want to give everyone the advice to go tearing into a PSU, but it's pretty easy to discharge them (just unplug them and let them sit for a few minutes and/or try to fire up your PC with it unplugged). It's not hard to open up a fan to lubricate the bearings, but you want to use lubricating oil, not just something that happens to have mineral oil in it...


It's more myth than reality. Pretty much every computer supply under the sun has a bleed resistor that drains the caps in about a second after power is disconnected. The huge electron gun caps on the other hand can knock you on your keister and potentially kill you if you do not know how to safely discharge them.
 
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:33 pm

If you're going to ask our opinions and then ignore all of us, what was the flaming point of asking to begin with?
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:34 pm

Deanjo wrote:
Pretty much every computer supply under the sun has a bleed resistor that drains the caps in about a second after power is disconnected.


And for the ones that don't (I have no idea which ones - so I assume all of them don't) you can usually drain the PSU by trying to start the PC up without a power cord attached. If there's anything left in the capacitors you'll see the fans spin maybe a couple of revolutions, if they move enough to spin at all. The reason I know this is that I speak from experience when a friend of mine was dumb enough to run a PSU in a wooden desk draw without the case on. System was off, but I didn't know at the time how much charge those capacitors stored :\

A PSU capacitor discharging through you really really hurts. The pain is brief but the nausea, vomitting and disorientation don't stop for several minutes. I've hit a tree trunk at 40mph and then fallen about sixty feet onto hardpack before, and I'd rather do that again than get a PSU capacitor shock.
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:35 pm

Chrispy_ wrote:
spend the $20 on another fan and a basic soldering iron.


In my experience you don't need the soldering iron to replace a PSU fan, just some electrical tape and something to strip insulation with & cut the wires.
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:37 pm

bthylafh wrote:
Chrispy_ wrote:
spend the $20 on another fan and a basic soldering iron.


In my experience you don't need the soldering iron to replace a PSU fan, just some electrical tape and something to strip insulation with & cut the wires.


LOL at Captain Ghetto.
You are, however, technically correct.
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:52 pm

Technically correct is best correct.
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Mon Mar 07, 2016 8:56 pm

Some interesting reads:
"Death of a gutless wonder"
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?na ... y&reid=123
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?na ... y&reid=154
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?na ... y&reid=324
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?na ... y&reid=335
http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php?na ... y&reid=379

This is the cheap power supply crap you want to avoid.

That said, the CX430, while not top of the line, is still worlds better than this. Same with the units most OEMs use - they're not the best, but for modest loads they're fine. (OK, there were the older Bestecs, but I think they learned from that.) Kinda funny how we always seem to talk about 500W+ power supplies, but OEMs use 250W-300W units left and right and it's rarely an issue. Know what wattage you're drawing, guys.

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