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coolflame57
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:20 pm

Chrispy_ wrote:
coolflame57 wrote:
This. I think I can get some lubricating oil... provided it's under $20, if not then I'll buy a new PSU.


Your fan is already irreparably damaged.



This may not be entirely true because although my PSU fan was annoying loud at the time of posting this, right now, my PC is silent. For now, I'm going to leave it alone and hopefully it won't get worse.

I feel like an idiot for even asking this question in the first place now. If this on and off noise persists, I'll cave and just get another fan. What fan should I get?
Last edited by coolflame57 on Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
Deanjo
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:29 pm

Chrispy_ wrote:
Deanjo wrote:
Pretty much every computer supply under the sun has a bleed resistor that drains the caps in about a second after power is disconnected.


And for the ones that don't (I have no idea which ones - so I assume all of them don't) you can usually drain the PSU by trying to start the PC up without a power cord attached.


If you find one like that it is more than likely some no-name, brought in from some fly by night sweatshop in china through eBay or the likes without any CSA, UL, etc certifications. Last time I saw one like that was back in the AT days and I kid you not, it had a chunk of lead in it to add weight to make it "feel" like a quality product (a trick I have seen in old Kenwood car audio amplifiers as well). You can usually spot those with their 400+ Watt ILS* rating and 24 gauge wires.

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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:32 pm

bthylafh wrote:
Technically correct is best correct.


Not disagreeing with you, I'm an engineer :D

coolflame57 wrote:
If this on and off noise persists, I'll cave and just get another fan. What fan should I get?


Anything that's a two-pin 120mm fan pulling around 0.3A. Splice red to red, black to black and you're gold.
Last edited by Chrispy_ on Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Voldenuit
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:37 pm

Deanjo wrote:
Waco wrote:
Deanjo wrote:
Gotta admit after tearing into hundreds of PC power supplies myself to salvage electrical components, I have never heard of anyone dying unless the jack*** left it plugged in. That being said, the article is pretty vague and it is highly possible that the "power supply" in question was crt power circutry. The source after all is Fox.

This.

I understand you don't want to give everyone the advice to go tearing into a PSU, but it's pretty easy to discharge them (just unplug them and let them sit for a few minutes and/or try to fire up your PC with it unplugged). It's not hard to open up a fan to lubricate the bearings, but you want to use lubricating oil, not just something that happens to have mineral oil in it...


It's more myth than reality. Pretty much every computer supply under the sun has a bleed resistor that drains the caps in about a second after power is disconnected. The huge electron gun caps on the other hand can knock you on your keister and potentially kill you if you do not know how to safely discharge them.


I've shocked myself on a PSU that had been unplugged for ~10-20 minutes. Although come to think of it, if I had left it plugged in but turned off, that might have given the charge someplace to drain (I'm assuming it would drain into the ground plug?).

Not an experiment I am keen to repeat, now that I am older (and wiser, hopefully).
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Deanjo
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:58 pm

Chrispy_ wrote:
A PSU capacitor discharging through you really really hurts. The pain is brief but the nausea, vomitting and disorientation don't stop for several minutes.


Lol, it sure wakes a person up in a hurry. Tagged myself a few times in the past repairing/restoring vintage radios as a kid. My father used to head to auctions and often bring me home a bunch of old radios to repair as a kid. Kept me off the street, learned electronics and curled a few hairs. :D

Of course on the farm you had to grab the electric fence every once and a while...
 
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:10 pm

The capacitor in a single use/disposable camera will give you nice zap, tingle in the arm.
Edit; In case your wondering No I didn't try to take one apart. It happened when I was moving a box full of disposable cameras behind the photo counter at work (past job.)
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Mon Mar 07, 2016 10:33 pm

Deanjo wrote:
Of course on the farm you had to grab the electric fence every once and a while...


I crossed under one I didn't know was live (or even wired up) with one foot in a fairly deep puddle. That was exciting.
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:01 pm

coolflame57 wrote:
This may not be entirely true because although my PSU fan was annoying loud at the time of posting this, right now, my PC is silent. For now, I'm going to leave it alone and hopefully it won't get worse.

Intermittent noise is not unusual for fans with worn bearings. Sometimes they quiet down after they've warmed up a bit. It is also possible that the fan is quiet now because it has completely seized up.

Voldenuit wrote:
I've shocked myself on a PSU that had been unplugged for ~10-20 minutes. Although come to think of it, if I had left it plugged in but turned off, that might have given the charge someplace to drain (I'm assuming it would drain into the ground plug?).

If it had bleed resistors the charge should've drained even if it was unplugged, as the bleed resistors should be directly across the caps (so having an earth ground should not matter).

@coolflame57 -

While Chrispy_ is correct that the risk is small if precautions are taken, it's still a risk. The fact that the manufacturer used a crappy fan increases the odds that they cut corners on other things too... like bleed resistors (as with Voldenuit's PSU). Chrispy_ is also correct that attempting to power the system up with the power cord unplugged should discharge the caps to a safe level; please do this before opening the PSU. And even if you *think* the capacitors are discharged, never handle the open PSU in a way that a potential discharge has a path through your heart (electricity typically kills by causing cardiac fibrillation). Use tools with non-conductive handles, and keep one hand at your side or behind your back as much as possible.

If proper precautions are taken, tinkering around in a PSU is safe. People reacted strongly because A) it was pretty clear that you had no prior experience doing so; and B) you seemed to be implying (in the first post) that you were thinking of coating the interior of the PSU with potentially flammable solvents and oil... this would be (as they say) "a really bad idea".
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Redocbew
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:31 pm

The first time I saw someone doing that I thought it looked funny, then someone explained it to me.

You see that AED on the wall over there? Yeah... Nobody wants to have to use that...
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Mon Mar 07, 2016 11:59 pm

DPete27 wrote:
As I said, I don't prefer the CX430 when you can get the CS450M for only $10 more. Obviously these aren't tip top quality psu's with 100% Japanese caps blah blah, but I think they're up to the task, and are MUCH better than the no-name units. I'd pick the CS450M over an 80+ bronze unit from any manufacturer even ones at twice the cost.

On price you may prefer CS450M over say a Seasonic S12 Series-But definitely not on quality........................
 
coolflame57
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:27 pm

I used this thread in a safe way today. Don't worry, I didn't kill myself spraying the inside of the PSU, but I did open it up (voiding the warranty :() after unplugging it and hitting the on button a couple times, and found two things:

1. It was dusty AF. I attacked with a compressed air can and it went away.

2. There was this plastic plate attached to the fan which blocked airflow to half the PSU itself. I removed this as it was just screwed in with two screws. Now, I have to ask myself WHY THE FREAKING HELL would Corsair block airflow to freaking half of the PSU???? Isn't the point of the fan to cool the ENTIRE PSU, not just HALF of it?

Also, this fan is attached to the PCB of the PSU with a 2-pin fan header. If I wanted to, replacing it wouldn't involve any electrical tape, I'd just have to find a fan with a 2-pin header.
 
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:40 pm

coolflame57 wrote:
2. There was this plastic plate attached to the fan which blocked airflow to half the PSU itself. I removed this as it was just screwed in with two screws. Now, I have to ask myself WHY THE FREAKING HELL would Corsair block airflow to freaking half of the PSU???? Isn't the point of the fan to cool the ENTIRE PSU, not just HALF of it?

You might want to re-consider taking it out, there's a reason for why it was put there. It prevents air from escaping out the exhaust before it's had a chance to blow over/pick up heat from the bottom components.
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coolflame57
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:45 pm

biffzinker wrote:
coolflame57 wrote:
2. There was this plastic plate attached to the fan which blocked airflow to half the PSU itself. I removed this as it was just screwed in with two screws. Now, I have to ask myself WHY THE FREAKING HELL would Corsair block airflow to freaking half of the PSU???? Isn't the point of the fan to cool the ENTIRE PSU, not just HALF of it?

You might want to re-consider taking it out, there's a reason for why it was put there. It prevents air from escaping out the exhaust before it's had a chance to blow over/pick up heat from the bottom components.


Oh wow. That explains a lot. Do you think leaving it out will dramatically raise my PSU temps?
 
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:50 pm

coolflame57 wrote:
biffzinker wrote:
coolflame57 wrote:
2. There was this plastic plate attached to the fan which blocked airflow to half the PSU itself. I removed this as it was just screwed in with two screws. Now, I have to ask myself WHY THE FREAKING HELL would Corsair block airflow to freaking half of the PSU???? Isn't the point of the fan to cool the ENTIRE PSU, not just HALF of it?

You might want to re-consider taking it out, there's a reason for why it was put there. It prevents air from escaping out the exhaust before it's had a chance to blow over/pick up heat from the bottom components.


Oh wow. That explains a lot. Do you think leaving it out will dramatically raise my PSU temps?

It will likely shorten the life of your power supply especially any capacitors on the board that don't like the increased heat from any near by heatsinks bolted to the mosfets that also expect some kind of air flow.

Edit: It's not a mosfet I'm thinking of although you will find those the board as well.
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biffzinker
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Sat Jun 11, 2016 4:03 pm

Here's an example of a Enermax power supply disassembled in a review over at JonnyGuru.
Image
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Sat Jun 11, 2016 4:46 pm

The plastic plate was vital to force air through the power supply from the front to the back. By removing the plate you've short-circuited the path of air and now more than half the components in your PSU are getting barely any airflow - most of the airflow they receive will be recirculating eddies of hot, trapped air.

Now, without the plate, there's a dead spot under the front half of the fan because it's balancing against the backpressure from the other half of the fan. If you're thinking "no, the pressure is less there because the air escapes out of the vents at the back of the PSU" you'd be wrong; Fluid dynamics don't work that way. The fan creates pressure and the fact that air can escape just means that more air flows in the back half.

What you'll find is that a little bit more air flows out of the back of your PSU now, but it's likely to be cool air that hasn't actually passed over any components in your PSU - it's come in through the back half of the fan, met almost zero resistance and found a direct escape route out of exhaust vents. Given that there's now no airflow under the fan hub, and given where the heatsinks are in relation to the fan, I'd estimate that you've lost two thirds of your cooling now.

Image

I hate to state the obvious, but if you don't understand something - especially when it involves high voltages, expensive hardware, shock or fire hazards - you really should do some basic research before assuming that the thing you don't understand can be tossed out. The engineer who engineers stuff for a living put that in there. What makes your guesswork better than his years of training and experience?

Failing that, resort to common sense; If the manufacturers could save $0.05 by omitting that plastic part and two screws on hundreds of thousands of PSUs, they'd do it in a heartbeat. It must be necessary even if you don't know why.
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:38 pm

Make absolutely sure you put it back in the right way also.
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:53 pm

Well if your case is partitioned in such a way to have isolated intake and exhaust... You could just reverse the fan, no deadzone?
 
coolflame57
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:48 am

Chrispy_ wrote:

I hate to state the obvious, but if you don't understand something - especially when it involves high voltages, expensive hardware, shock or fire hazards - you really should do some basic research before assuming that the thing you don't understand can be tossed out. The engineer who engineers stuff for a living put that in there. What makes your guesswork better than his years of training and experience?

Failing that, resort to common sense; If the manufacturers could save $0.05 by omitting that plastic part and two screws on hundreds of thousands of PSUs, they'd do it in a heartbeat. It must be necessary even if you don't know why.


I'm sorry to all of you (and my PSU) who have had to deal with this complete **** thread. I clearly did not know what I was doing. That being said, I actually now know more about PSUs than I did before, and my knowledge of other hardware is also par for this site.

@Chrispy, did it ever occur to you that simply asking a question on this great forum was my "Basic research"? I respect you for saving my computer but I really am not a fan of your rudeness.
Last edited by coolflame57 on Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:53 am

coolflame57 wrote:
That being said, I actually now know more about PSUs than I did before, and my knowledge of other hardware is also par for this site.


Disrespect not intended, but given your behavior vis-a-vis the power supply situation you should check this out: Dunning-Kruger effect
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coolflame57
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Sun Jun 12, 2016 8:56 am

bthylafh wrote:
coolflame57 wrote:
That being said, I actually now know more about PSUs than I did before, and my knowledge of other hardware is also par for this site.


Disrespect not intended, but given your behavior vis-a-vis the power supply situation you should check this out: Dunning-Kruger effect


Ouch. Like I said PAR for this site. Nothing more, nothing less. I do admit, that is a rather accurate but painful description of me in this thread.
 
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Sun Jun 12, 2016 9:03 am

coolflame57 wrote:
Ouch. Like I said PAR for this site. Nothing more, nothing less.

The vast majority of long-time posters here have one of those "oopsies" in our early post records. It marks the transition from a larval/pupal gerbil to a fully-fledged gerbil.

Welcome.
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:36 pm

Your enthusiasm is good, reminds me of myself when I was young. Harshness here was definitely warranted though due to the dangers of the situation.
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Sun Jun 12, 2016 12:49 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
The vast majority of long-time posters here have one of those "oopsies" in our early post records. It marks the transition from a larval/pupal gerbil to a fully-fledged gerbil.


Yeah, it's like what they tell med students. You're not really a doctor until you've killed a patient.
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coolflame57
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Re: Extremely Loud PSU fan

Sun Jun 12, 2016 2:34 pm

Redocbew wrote:
Captain Ned wrote:
The vast majority of long-time posters here have one of those "oopsies" in our early post records. It marks the transition from a larval/pupal gerbil to a fully-fledged gerbil.


Yeah, it's like what they tell med students. You're not really a doctor until you've killed a patient.


False. FYI, nothing died and not every doctor/med student deals with life-threatening issues. In the words of our famous Chrispy,
Chrispy_ wrote:

I hate to state the obvious, but if you don't understand something... you really should do some basic research...

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