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Topinio
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Transplant sanity check

Tue May 29, 2018 2:04 pm

I am looking to transplant the HTPC (i5-2500K, DH67GD, 6GB, GT 1030 SC, 250GB BX100, 1.5TB Barracuda, Xonar DX, BD-RE, Windows 8.1) into a new case, as part of my iterative broom upgrade approach to this* machine. Any input appreciated.

  1. Case: looking at a SilverStone Grandia GD09, what alternative would you recommend that can take the listed components, and allow for a Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8 GB (230x125x40) if I ever get around to unboxing it. Anything with a couple of Type-C USB Charging Ports would be interesting. Currently using an Antec Veris MicroFusion Remote 350 that I picked up a bit under 8 years ago.
  2. PSU: This case will need a new PSU, the Antec 350 W model in the existing case came with it and I probably shouldn't move it over. How insane would I be to deploy a 7.75 year old Seasonic X-650 which has been 22 months on the parts pile?

* The original version of this machine was the K6-2 450, IWILL XA100, 384MB, MX 440 8X, 20 GB, ViBRA 16, CD-RW, Windows XP, Fedora Core 2 one which was the desktop until January 2005 when it was relegated to HTPC duty. That itself started out with a K6-2 300, 32 MB, ViRGE/DX 4MB, 2.1GB, CD-ROM, ISA V.90 hardware modem, Windows 95 OSR 2 and Red Hat Linux 5.1
Desktop: E3-1270 v5, X11SAT-F, 32GB, RX 580, 500GB Crucial P1, 250GB Crucial MX500, 4TB 7E8, Xonar DGX, XL2730Z + L22e-20
HTPC: i5-2500K, DH67GD, 6GB, GT 1030, 250GB MX500, 1.5TB Barracuda, Xonar DX, G2420HDB
Laptop: MacBook6,1
 
TheRazorsEdge
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Re: Transplant sanity check

Tue May 29, 2018 3:04 pm

That case is larger than a lot of HTPC cases, but it has good cooling.

There are smaller alternatives (including from SilverStone), but if you have the space then it's probably the best bet. There should be room for an aftermarket cooler if the OEM Sapphire cooler runs too loud or too hot.
 
DPete27
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Re: Transplant sanity check

Wed May 30, 2018 10:26 pm

Why the transplant? Is it still going to be an HTPC? Are there any size restrictions? Your mobo is mATX, why not get a mATX case?
Main: i5-3570K, ASRock Z77 Pro4-M, MSI RX480 8G, 500GB Crucial BX100, 2 TB Samsung EcoGreen F4, 16GB 1600MHz G.Skill @1.25V, EVGA 550-G2, Silverstone PS07B
HTPC: A8-5600K, MSI FM2-A75IA-E53, 4TB Seagate SSHD, 8GB 1866MHz G.Skill, Crosley D-25 Case Mod
 
JustAnEngineer
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Re: Transplant sanity check

Wed May 30, 2018 10:55 pm

i7-9700K, NH-D15, Z390M Pro4, 32 GiB, RX Vega64, Define Mini-C, SSR-850PX, C32HG70+U2407, RK-9000BR, MX518
 
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Re: Transplant sanity check

Thu May 31, 2018 4:57 am

Before jumping on the smaller cases, how tall is that Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8 GB? Some of the HTPC cases are tight if you are putting a full height + extra high heat sink GPU in them. I went with the GD09 myself for that reason -- once you installed the GPU and attached the power cables, it was pretty close to the case lid.
Main System: i7-8700K, ASUS ROG STRIX Z370-E, 16 GB DDR4 3200 RAM, MSI GTX 1080 TI, 1 TB CRUCIAL MX500, Corsair 550D

HTPC: I5-4460, ASUS H97M-E, 8 GB RAM, GTX 970, CRUCIAL 256GB MX100, SILVERSTONE GD09B
 
Topinio
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Re: Transplant sanity check

Thu May 31, 2018 5:54 am

DPete27 wrote:
Why the transplant? Is it still going to be an HTPC? Are there any size restrictions? Your mobo is mATX, why not get a mATX case?
CPU heat issues this summer, possibly due to a higher load than previously (as the machine is aging and software gets less efficient) not solved by cleaning or new TIM, coupled with the case being a known blocker to installing a full-size GPU (which neither of the 2 previous cases were).
DPete27 wrote:
Is it still going to be an HTPC?
Yes.
DPete27 wrote:
Are there any size restrictions?
Should be no deeper and not much wider than the Antec one (DxW = 41.0 x 39.0 cm = 16.1 x 15.4"), height I don't care. I would like to be able to put in a full-size GPU if need be, though historically this machine has had low-profile ones (MX 440 8X LP, 6200 LP, 7300 GS FH, HD 3450 LP, HD Graphics 3000 IGP, HD 7750 LP, GT 1030 LP).
DPete27 wrote:
Your mobo is mATX, why not get a mATX case?
Not opposed to that, but the ability to fit full-size GPUs puts it in the ATX motherboard range and the footprint seems similar.
Desktop: E3-1270 v5, X11SAT-F, 32GB, RX 580, 500GB Crucial P1, 250GB Crucial MX500, 4TB 7E8, Xonar DGX, XL2730Z + L22e-20
HTPC: i5-2500K, DH67GD, 6GB, GT 1030, 250GB MX500, 1.5TB Barracuda, Xonar DX, G2420HDB
Laptop: MacBook6,1
 
Topinio
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Re: Transplant sanity check

Thu May 31, 2018 6:00 am

JustAnEngineer wrote:
The Silverstone Grandia GD04/GD05/GD06 triplets look like a good choice for a micro-ATX HTPC.
Thanks. They are similar sizes though. I like that they are less deep, but it's not by much: the GD06 is 1.8 cm less deep than the GD09, the GD05 is 3.3 cm less and the GD04 3.5 cm (they are all the same width as the GD09).

However, the manuals say these all have a GPU limit of 279 x 124 mm, the GD09 has 309 x 133 mm ... and while both of these are above spec limit for a full-height card and below the limit for a full-length one, the GD09 (and GD07, GD08, GD10, I've been in manual-reading fun) all accomodate the RX 580 which I have lying around (though I can't install it yet, it won't work with Windows 8.1).
JustAnEngineer wrote:
If you have one of the older ones, you can upgrade it to USB 3.1 type C:
Gaah. Really nice, thanks for pointing it out, but isn't there one for the GD09 (or GD10)? That page says it only works with GD04-USB 3.0, GD05-USB 3.0, GD06, GD07, GD08 and those first 3 are more limited for GPUs and CPU cooler height than the GD09, while the other 2 are too deep for the space at +2.5 and +1.5 cm over my current Antec, which itself only just fits.
JustAnEngineer wrote:
For a new power supply, take a look at the SeaSonic Focus Plus gold:
Will do. I had been looking at the Prime Ultra Gold 550 W for £110, or just using the X-Series 650 W one I already have in the spares box but was unsure if it's maybe too old. Not sure that Focus Plus Gold 550 W for £80 is cheap enough to make me chuck out the X-Series, but will think about it.
Desktop: E3-1270 v5, X11SAT-F, 32GB, RX 580, 500GB Crucial P1, 250GB Crucial MX500, 4TB 7E8, Xonar DGX, XL2730Z + L22e-20
HTPC: i5-2500K, DH67GD, 6GB, GT 1030, 250GB MX500, 1.5TB Barracuda, Xonar DX, G2420HDB
Laptop: MacBook6,1
 
Topinio
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Re: Transplant sanity check

Thu May 31, 2018 6:07 am

K-L-Waster wrote:
Before jumping on the smaller cases, how tall is that Sapphire Pulse Radeon RX 580 8 GB? Some of the HTPC cases are tight if you are putting a full height + extra high heat sink GPU in them. I went with the GD09 myself for that reason -- once you installed the GPU and attached the power cables, it was pretty close to the case lid.

Yes, that's an important point which I'd already been looking for in the manuals, so can confirm: the GD04, GD05, GD06 are too small for that RX 580 by 1 mm even ignoring the auxillary power cable, and even in the GD09 and GD10 there's only 8 mm above for that. (GD07 and GD08 too, but they are too big on depth for this project).

Sigh, HTPCs are annoying.

Edit to add: the GD04, GD05, and GD06 also all limit to 70 mm CPU HSF, where the GD09 has up to 88 mm possibilities (in all cases this is when an optical drive is installed, which it will be). And that SilverStone's manuals remain excellent.
Last edited by Topinio on Thu May 31, 2018 6:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Desktop: E3-1270 v5, X11SAT-F, 32GB, RX 580, 500GB Crucial P1, 250GB Crucial MX500, 4TB 7E8, Xonar DGX, XL2730Z + L22e-20
HTPC: i5-2500K, DH67GD, 6GB, GT 1030, 250GB MX500, 1.5TB Barracuda, Xonar DX, G2420HDB
Laptop: MacBook6,1
 
Chrispy_
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Re: Transplant sanity check

Thu May 31, 2018 6:09 am

I use a GD05 and it's incredibly quiet and well-cooled for my GTX970 but you do need to make sure that your GPU doesn't sit too tall in the slot. I'm using a reference model (founder's edition) and it's quite simply the tallest card you can fit in there with vertical power sockets (and I had to buy a low-profile 6-pin connector to make it work, too). If your GPU has power connectors on the front edge rather than the top edge, you can fit much larger cards. The limitation is that the PCIe power connector adds at least an inch of extra height because the cables are too thick to bend in a sharp radius.

I'm also not keen on the mounting location of the drives. I made my own drive cage and threw out the original because the SATA and power cables for the drives in the original location foul the area where you'd want to plug in your Xonar, and potentially the fans on the RX580.

If size isn't an issue for you, stick with the GD09. It's a decent case for HTPC duty given the component selection you are trying to use.

If size *is* and issue for you, I would consider finding a way to move to a more integrated build with mITX, a slimline optical, network storage and an external DAC instead of the Xonar. FTZ01 would probably fit the bill best for that option since you get a slim horizontal case with large GPU and optical drive support.

edit:
Topinio wrote:
so can confirm: the GD04, GD05, GD06 are too small for that RX 580 by 1 mm even ignoring the auxillary power cable, and even in the GD09 and GD10 there's only 8 mm above for that. (GD07 and GD08 too, but they are too big on depth for this project).

Sigh, HTPCs are annoying.


I'd sell the RX580 if you can right now. It's too big, it's power-hungry for a machine that I presume you want to keep as quiet as possible and you can possibly even turn a profit by flogging it to some miners at the moment. Use the proceeds to fund a 1050 3GB models for excellent 1080p casual gaming in under 75 Watts, or spend the money on a 10606GB to match the RX580.
Last edited by Chrispy_ on Thu May 31, 2018 6:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Topinio
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Re: Transplant sanity check

Thu May 31, 2018 6:16 am

Chrispy_ wrote:
I'm also not keen on the mounting location of the drives. I made my own drive cage and threw out the original because the SATA and power cables for the drives in the original location foul the area where you'd want to plug in your Xonar, and potentially the fans on the RX580.
Ta, I'll look into that next.

Chrispy_ wrote:
If size isn't an issue for you, stick with the GD09. It's a decent case for HTPC duty given the component selection you are trying to use.

If size *is* and issue for you, I would consider finding a way to move to a more integrated build with mITX, a slimline optical, network storage and an external DAC instead of the Xonar. FTZ01 would probably fit the bill best for that option since you get a slim horizontal case with large GPU and optical drive support.
Size isn't an issue, cost is more at this point and this machine is iteratively improved... if I start looking at the soundcard and optical drive then I'm in trouble, it kinda needs more RAM, a Windows 10-supporting motherboard, and a Windows 10 licence first. (In the opposite order.)

Network storage is done but not in production, there's a FreeNAS install on a Proliant waiting for a free day one weekend or a day off.
Desktop: E3-1270 v5, X11SAT-F, 32GB, RX 580, 500GB Crucial P1, 250GB Crucial MX500, 4TB 7E8, Xonar DGX, XL2730Z + L22e-20
HTPC: i5-2500K, DH67GD, 6GB, GT 1030, 250GB MX500, 1.5TB Barracuda, Xonar DX, G2420HDB
Laptop: MacBook6,1
 
Topinio
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Re: Transplant sanity check

Thu May 31, 2018 6:21 am

Chrispy_ wrote:
edit:
Topinio wrote:
so can confirm: the GD04, GD05, GD06 are too small for that RX 580 by 1 mm even ignoring the auxillary power cable, and even in the GD09 and GD10 there's only 8 mm above for that. (GD07 and GD08 too, but they are too big on depth for this project).

Sigh, HTPCs are annoying.


I'd sell the RX580 if you can right now. It's too big, it's power-hungry for a machine that I presume you want to keep as quiet as possible and you can possibly even turn a profit by flogging it to some miners at the moment. Use the proceeds to fund a 1050 3GB models for excellent 1080p casual gaming in under 75 Watts, or spend the money on a 10606GB to match the RX580.

I don't really have it together for selling stuff... I don't trust eBay or whatever and don't know anyone who'd want it. Could CEX it, I suppose, but then I'd have a load of credit to buy other stuff I don't need ...
Desktop: E3-1270 v5, X11SAT-F, 32GB, RX 580, 500GB Crucial P1, 250GB Crucial MX500, 4TB 7E8, Xonar DGX, XL2730Z + L22e-20
HTPC: i5-2500K, DH67GD, 6GB, GT 1030, 250GB MX500, 1.5TB Barracuda, Xonar DX, G2420HDB
Laptop: MacBook6,1
 
Chrispy_
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Re: Transplant sanity check

Thu May 31, 2018 6:50 am

You should be able to upgrade to Windows 10 for free, still. Just take a backup image with Macrium or something and then see if your existing product key works with Windows 10 anyway.

Shame about the GPU. There's nothing wrong with the 580 but it's one of the least-suitable GPUs for an HTPC that I can think of simply because it sits at the upper end of the physical size, power and cooling requirements these days. I genuinely cannot think of a horizontal HTPC-style case that will fit your requirement of a GPU that large at the same time as a (presumably full-size) optical drive. Maybe list it here on TR to see if any gerbils are interested in buying it or swapping it for something smaller? One of the better options for an HTPC is an Nvidia reference card or founder's edition. They're compact - barely taller than the expansion slot cover, They're good for HTPCs because the horizontal nature of them robs the case airflow of the chimney effect - so getting heat exhausted directly out of the back of the GPU is a huge benefit, and they're reasonably quiet even under load.

What sort of games are you playing and at what details?
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Topinio
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Re: Transplant sanity check

Thu May 31, 2018 7:35 am

I'm not sure about Windows 10 using the current Windows 8 key, but I suppose it might be worth a go. I could even reinstall Windows 7 and hope that Microsoft gives it another push to in-place upgrade the Windows 7 holdouts to Windows 10 next year, when there's less than a year left.

I know, I know, on the RX 580. It's an accident that I have one and I just don't really want to waste it. I don't often need to play games on this machine anyway, the main machine has a RX Vega 56 in it, but when I do it's just Rocket League at the mo. 1280x720 and really low detail, RL seems to perform much worse on the GT 1030 than it did on the HD 7750, a swap out that only happened because AMD stopped driver support for Windows 8.1.

(Windows 8.1 happened before that, only because I got a full retail copy for £10 or so and at the time that meant I wouldn't need to do anything else with this machine until 2020 or later, i.e. could keep it as is despite Windows 7's EOL in January 2020...)
Desktop: E3-1270 v5, X11SAT-F, 32GB, RX 580, 500GB Crucial P1, 250GB Crucial MX500, 4TB 7E8, Xonar DGX, XL2730Z + L22e-20
HTPC: i5-2500K, DH67GD, 6GB, GT 1030, 250GB MX500, 1.5TB Barracuda, Xonar DX, G2420HDB
Laptop: MacBook6,1
 
Chrispy_
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Re: Transplant sanity check

Thu May 31, 2018 7:48 am

You could always stream your steam games from the Vega56 machine? It adds a tiny bit of lag but on wired gigabit connections, it's usually only 1 frame.

The 1030 is pretty basic but it's not that bad. Youtube shows that it should handle 720p Medium at 100+ fps, unless you managed to end up with the DDR4 version, which is fit for absolutely nothing as it's so hampered by a lack of memory bandwidth that you might as well stick to the Sandy Bridge HD3000 graphics.
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DPete27
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Re: Transplant sanity check

Thu May 31, 2018 9:12 am

Yeah the Grandia series are probably not going to be suitable for your existing GPU. They require some careful GPU choices (power out the end of the card, etc).

What about the Silverstone SG10? That's about the most compact mATX case I can think of.
Main: i5-3570K, ASRock Z77 Pro4-M, MSI RX480 8G, 500GB Crucial BX100, 2 TB Samsung EcoGreen F4, 16GB 1600MHz G.Skill @1.25V, EVGA 550-G2, Silverstone PS07B
HTPC: A8-5600K, MSI FM2-A75IA-E53, 4TB Seagate SSHD, 8GB 1866MHz G.Skill, Crosley D-25 Case Mod
 
JustAnEngineer
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Re: Transplant sanity check

Thu May 31, 2018 12:46 pm

Topinio wrote:
JustAnEngineer wrote:
If you have one of the older ones, you can upgrade it to USB 3.1 type C:
Gaah. Really nice, thanks for pointing it out, but isn't there one for the GD09 (or GD10)? That page says it only works with GD04-USB 3.0, GD05-USB 3.0, GD06, GD07, GD08.

Here is the manufacturer’s product page.
https://www.silverstonetek.com/product. ... 48&area=en
Silverstone wrote:
To inquire about chassis not listed above, please mail to the following address before purchasing: support@silverstonetek.com
i7-9700K, NH-D15, Z390M Pro4, 32 GiB, RX Vega64, Define Mini-C, SSR-850PX, C32HG70+U2407, RK-9000BR, MX518
 
Topinio
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Re: Transplant sanity check

Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:30 pm

Update: I have done the transplant, having bought the GD09 and dragged the X-650 out of the parts box. So far, mostly so good: temps are lower and I'm not getting pop-ups about the CPU overheating (but then the stupidly hot weather is over...); however, the speakers are now (unrelatedly?) unhappy and popping and crackling (whether on the Xonar or the Realtek onboard).

When I can find the spare Intel SSD which wasn't in its box, I might play with Windows 7 again.

FWIW, the GD09 is quite silly with drive installation: the 2.5" drive is supposed to be screwed to the case in front of the PSU but there's no room to get the cables into it, the other hangs below the bay for the 5.25" optical drive but needs the latter to be not there when being installed or removed, so much faff. Using this 2.5" position takes up a 3.5" position, meaning the sideways one screwed to the front of the case is the only option.

The RX 580 will only get installed if I put 7 back on there (my 8.1 licence is retail, 7 is OEM from the Jan 2011 build) as AMD took the unhelpful decision to not make Windows 8.1 drivers any more. The 1030 is that bad that I'm considering this.

Edit: forgot, I didn't get the USB-C panel yet, the motherboard only has USB 2 headers so even the included one can't be hooked up without an adapter, and I haven't got the energy yet.
Desktop: E3-1270 v5, X11SAT-F, 32GB, RX 580, 500GB Crucial P1, 250GB Crucial MX500, 4TB 7E8, Xonar DGX, XL2730Z + L22e-20
HTPC: i5-2500K, DH67GD, 6GB, GT 1030, 250GB MX500, 1.5TB Barracuda, Xonar DX, G2420HDB
Laptop: MacBook6,1
 
ludi
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Re: Transplant sanity check

Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:20 am

Topinio wrote:
Update: I have done the transplant, having bought the GD09 and dragged the X-650 out of the parts box. So far, mostly so good: temps are lower and I'm not getting pop-ups about the CPU overheating (but then the stupidly hot weather is over...)

If I read this correctly, your board supports some Ivy Bridge processors, which would get you more performance at even cooler temperatures. You can get an i7-3770S (note the 'S') for less than $100 on eBay, and that would get you from a 4C/4T, 6MB, 95W TDP processor to a 4C/8T, 8MB, 65W TDP processor with similar clock speeds. (Also full virtualization support if you care about that, VT-d is disabled on the 2500K). I made that same transition earlier this year and have no regrets; using the same HSF as before and the fan runs slower most of the time.
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Topinio
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Re: Transplant sanity check

Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:12 am

ludi wrote:
If I read this correctly, your board supports some Ivy Bridge processors, which would get you more performance at even cooler temperatures.

Nice idea, but not a goer thanks to it being too early a revision. Detailed nonsense explains.

It's annoying, in part because the board is an RMA one (for the B3 SATA issue).
Desktop: E3-1270 v5, X11SAT-F, 32GB, RX 580, 500GB Crucial P1, 250GB Crucial MX500, 4TB 7E8, Xonar DGX, XL2730Z + L22e-20
HTPC: i5-2500K, DH67GD, 6GB, GT 1030, 250GB MX500, 1.5TB Barracuda, Xonar DX, G2420HDB
Laptop: MacBook6,1
 
Topinio
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Re: Transplant sanity check

Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:01 pm

Update: I tried out Windows 10 1803 and it's definitely a no-go; among several stupidities, it flat-out refuses to recognise my Blu ray drive, LG BH10LS30, and temps are through the roof. On the plus side, the Xonar DX worked under 10, so its issue is software under 8.1 which I'll work on now it's back on that. A few hours of wasted effort there, not sure I can be bothered to repeat for Windows 7 really, so maybe I will sell the RX 580 after all...
Desktop: E3-1270 v5, X11SAT-F, 32GB, RX 580, 500GB Crucial P1, 250GB Crucial MX500, 4TB 7E8, Xonar DGX, XL2730Z + L22e-20
HTPC: i5-2500K, DH67GD, 6GB, GT 1030, 250GB MX500, 1.5TB Barracuda, Xonar DX, G2420HDB
Laptop: MacBook6,1

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