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whm1974
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CPU tempereratures and Folding@Home

Thu Jul 09, 2015 10:08 pm

I've been running Folding@Home for some time now, and checking Psensor, the CPU cores has temperatures from 80 to 90.
With Turning F@H off, the temperatures drop down to thirty something. ~80 to 90C sounds a little high to me but is this normal? Will my CPU be damaged running at these temps?
 
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Re: CPU tempereratures and Folding@Home

Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:10 pm

Depends on the CPU, but in general I'd say that's REALLY high for modern CPUs. IMO your cooling solution is inadequate. You need to beef up your cooling, or (second choice) throttle F@h's CPU usage to stay within what your cooling is capable of handling. But if you opt for the latter, be aware that anything that pegs all of your cores is probably gonna result in temperatures that exceed your CPU's thermal specs.
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whm1974
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Re: CPU tempereratures and Folding@Home

Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:13 pm

IMO your cooling solution is inadequate. You need to beef up your cooling,


Probley have to clean the case out. Or get a aftermarket HSF.
 
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Re: CPU tempereratures and Folding@Home

Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:36 pm

whm1974 wrote:
IMO your cooling solution is inadequate. You need to beef up your cooling,

Probley have to clean the case out. Or get a aftermarket HSF.

"Normal" people don't run F@h, therefore Intel and AMD don't assume that their stock config needs to handle 100% load 24x7. Even if the temps remained within spec, I think the the noise of a stock HSF with F@h running would drive me nuts, unless the system was stashed in a closet or crawlspace (yes, I've done that). :wink:
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whm1974
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Re: CPU tempereratures and Folding@Home

Thu Jul 09, 2015 11:50 pm

Even if the temps remained within spec, I think the the noise of a stock HSF with F@h running would drive me nuts


I know what you mean...
 
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Re: CPU tempereratures and Folding@Home

Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:04 am

What's your CPU ?
A CM-212 evo is a relatively cheap aftermarket cooler.
Even a CM 103 would drop temps more than 10 degrees lower than stock-and is even cheaper................................
 
whm1974
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Re: CPU tempereratures and Folding@Home

Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:14 am

What's your CPU ?


i5-4670.
 
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Re: CPU tempereratures and Folding@Home

Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:22 am

whm1974 wrote:
What's your CPU ?


i5-4670.

Stock cooling?
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whm1974
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Re: CPU tempereratures and Folding@Home

Sat Jul 11, 2015 1:02 pm

Stock cooling?


Yes
 
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Re: CPU tempereratures and Folding@Home

Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:07 pm

Consider Bionic instead.

Better controls over CPU usage so that you can control heat.
A greater variety of programs so that you can donate your money/time/power bill to a project that you strongly support
F@h is poorly managed and disrespectful to donors. Even if you are REALLY into protein folding vs clean water or better internet encryption or whatever, give your time to a project like Rosetta (university of wa) or curing malaria, or whatever. Those projects appreciate your contributions, and match your contributions with hard work on their side.
 
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Re: CPU tempereratures and Folding@Home

Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:17 pm

Just get a better cooler for like $20-$30 so you don't have to listen to the stock intel fan any more. Those things aren't very loud, but good lord are they annoying.
 
whm1974
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Re: CPU tempereratures and Folding@Home

Sat Jul 11, 2015 7:36 pm

Consider Bionic instead.

Better controls over CPU usage so that you can control heat.
A greater variety of programs so that you can donate your money/time/power bill to a project that you strongly support
F@h is poorly managed and disrespectful to donors. Even if you are REALLY into protein folding vs clean water or better internet encryption or whatever, give your time to a project like Rosetta (university of wa) or curing malaria, or whatever. Those projects appreciate your contributions, and match your contributions with hard work on their side.


I just may do this.
 
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Re: CPU tempereratures and Folding@Home

Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:56 am

just brew it! wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
IMO your cooling solution is inadequate. You need to beef up your cooling,

Probley have to clean the case out. Or get a aftermarket HSF.

"Normal" people don't run F@h, therefore Intel and AMD don't assume that their stock config needs to handle 100% load 24x7. Even if the temps remained within spec, I think the the noise of a stock HSF with F@h running would drive me nuts, unless the system was stashed in a closet or crawlspace (yes, I've done that). :wink:


Doesn't make it right though. 90c for F@H is normal, try cranking it up with AVX2 based crunching and temps can reach throttling limits. It'd be like a car dealership selling you a car with donut tires rated for only 55mph tops, and expecting the buyer to be responsible for upgrading the tires. That amounts to what Intel is doing with it's worthless coolers just so they can save $8 on a $300 part.
 
whm1974
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Re: CPU tempereratures and Folding@Home

Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:38 am

Doesn't make it right though. 90c for F@H is normal, try cranking it up with AVX2 based crunching and temps can reach throttling limits.


Something I just now thought about. Will running F@H 24/7 at full speed shorten the lifespan of my system?
 
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Re: CPU tempereratures and Folding@Home

Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:47 pm

whm1974 wrote:
Doesn't make it right though. 90c for F@H is normal, try cranking it up with AVX2 based crunching and temps can reach throttling limits.


Something I just now thought about. Will running F@H 24/7 at full speed shorten the lifespan of my system?


Yes and no. Assuming it's stock, it probably will but not enough you would ever notice it or that it would matter. And if it's throttling then that's worse. That said, running a CPU around 100c around the clock is more likely to cook the motherboard VRM first regardless.
 
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Re: CPU tempereratures and Folding@Home

Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:23 pm

And if it's throttling then that's worse.


I ran into that last year and my system kept rebooting on me when playing games. The wires wrapped around the HSF came loose enough to block the fan. I also had the case fans running at full speed for the system's first year. All that did was fill the case with dust. After fixing the HSF, removing the dust, and setting the fans to run only when needed, I haven't had a problem since then.
 
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Re: CPU tempereratures and Folding@Home

Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:51 am

1) Yes, that's normal temps for the stock Intel HSF on a 100% loaded CPU. They're not designed for sustained heavy workloads like F@H.
2) 80-90C is getting toward the upper limits of what the chip was designed to handle, but they will throttle themselves to prevent damage if needed. Technically I think it'd be fine, but 65-70C max would be a more comfortable temp. Everyone knows that cooler component temps encourages longer lifespans, but I don't think you'd be able to find any data out there to prove what the tipping point is for a given part. Law of diminishing returns applies here.
3) I'm not sure how many people have actually listened to a stock Intel HSF lately and how many are just making generalizations, but they're not terribly loud even when the CPU is at 90C and haven't been for quite some time (I just had a Haswell one going Prime95 on an open test bench a couple months ago). A 120mm aftermarket HSF would definitely keep the CPU cooler at the same or slightly less noise though. Stock AMD heatsinks still suck as much as they used to, P4 HSFs were bad, but IMO C2D/C2Q was a major improvement, and stock Intel HSF's have been decent at stock clocks and "typical" workloads since Sandy.
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whm1974
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Re: CPU tempereratures and Folding@Home

Mon Jul 13, 2015 10:16 am

Everyone knows that cooler component temps encourages longer lifespans, but I don't think you'd be able to find any data out there to prove what the tipping point is for a given part. Law of diminishing returns applies here.


CPU wise I am not planning on upgrading during the next three to four years, so I would be really pissed if I have to replace the CPU or the motherboard.
 
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Re: CPU tempereratures and Folding@Home

Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:23 am

whm1974 wrote:
CPU wise I am not planning on upgrading during the next three to four years, so I would be really pissed if I have to replace the CPU or the motherboard.

With throttling, I don't think it will cause any damage in your timeframe. The talks of electromigration are usually amplified by overclocking (especially if you have overvolted the CPU). Even that is not going to be 3-4 years. The prevalent idea is that you may be risking from 7-9 years down to 5-7 (if there is any "damage" to speak of), still well within any "usable lifetime" of the CPU. If you run at stock speeds, then improved cooling is probably just what you need to ensure longevity.

GPU folding is much more fragile.
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whm1974
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Re: CPU tempereratures and Folding@Home

Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:48 am

With throttling, I don't think it will cause any damage in your timeframe. The talks of electromigration are usually amplified by overclocking (especially if you have overvolted the CPU). Even that is not going to be 3-4 years.
 
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Re: CPU tempereratures and Folding@Home

Mon Jul 13, 2015 12:04 pm

I agree with most others here (@ improving cooling).

For reference: Under a Corsair H100i, my slightly over-volted, and 4.4Ghz OC'd 3930k usually stays within 65-70C (and occasionally into the low 70's) under F@H on Core A4 work units.

IMHO, unless you're folding 24/7, removing the case's side panel, with a box fan pointed into it goes a long way for $0 + the cost of electricity running said box fan.
 
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Re: CPU tempereratures and Folding@Home

Mon Jul 13, 2015 2:27 pm

PainIs4ThaWeak1 wrote:
removing the case's side panel, with a box fan pointed into it goes a long way for $0 + the cost of electricity running said box fan.

and 8,000% noise increase. I think I'd rather buy a $20-$30 aftermarket HSF.
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whm1974
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Re: CPU tempereratures and Folding@Home

Mon Jul 13, 2015 7:35 pm

and 8,000% noise increase. I think I'd rather buy a $20-$30 aftermarket HSF.


And the computer gets filled with crap. I've have done this a couple of time before.
 
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Re: CPU tempereratures and Folding@Home

Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:11 am

Really? Surely most people can't consider that too much of a hindrance to deal with for a few days/behind a closed door/vacuum afterwards to turn up their nose at it?

I guess I just don't understand TR readers sometimes.
 
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Re: CPU tempereratures and Folding@Home

Tue Jul 14, 2015 8:25 am

PainIs4ThaWeak1 wrote:
Really? Surely most people can't consider that too much of a hindrance to deal with for a few days/behind a closed door/vacuum afterwards to turn up their nose at it?

I guess I just don't understand TR readers sometimes.

Decent aftermarket HSFs are cheap enough that it makes more sense to go that route. This will reduce noise levels across the board, so the benefits go beyond F@h.

I almost never use the stock cooler that comes with a CPU, unless the system is a lightly loaded server that will be put somewhere I don't need to listen to it. The stock coolers are designed to a price point (that price point being "as close to zero as we can get away with"), and provide barely adequate cooling at barely acceptable noise levels.
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Re: CPU tempereratures and Folding@Home

Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:23 am

just brew it! wrote:
barely adequate cooling at barely acceptable noise levels.


If you look at Intel stock coolers the design has definitely stayed the same - a copper core pressed into a radial aluminium sink with that one-piece fan and clip-housing snapped over the top.

What's remarkable is that each generation of processor has a slightly lower TDP and they trim the height of the alu stack down accordingly. A team of beancounters have said "Hey, this processor has a 19W lower TDP. If we trim 4.8mm off the total height of the heatsink we save $0.0025 off the material costs of each heatsink, we can reduce the size of the packaging by 5mm in one dimension, shaving 0.008kg off the shipping weight of each unit and allowing us to get an extra 600 units in a shipping container than if we use the original packaging. Over a production run of 100 million units that costs us $650,000 in re-tooling and packaging changes and saves us $1.4m in shipping and warehouse costs; net gain $850K."

Someone, somewhere has given the go-ahead to make 100-million retail coolers more awful than they already are, to save less than 9 cents on a $200+ product.


Yes, if you assumed that I did anything other than pull these numbers out of my arse, then you are pretty gullible - but I'd still bet money on the figures being somewhere in the right ballpark.
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