Personal computing discussed
Moderators: renee, Flying Fox, morphine
srjtv wrote:I'm not trying to start a flame war, this is an honest-to-god rumination on the OCing of the i7 as it relates to Adobe work - the hyperthreading is pretty much essential for working with video above HD.
From everything I have read, the 6700K consistently overclocks to about 4.5GHz - about the same as the 6600K. The difference between the two seems to be that the the 6600K can reach that OC with a decent tower cooler, whereas the 6700K requires something on the lines of a H100i. Consider also that the 6600K is 3.5 stock and the 6700K is 4.0 stock - so you can spend $40 on a good tower with the 6600K, making $280 - 16% price increase for a 25% increase in speed. A 6700K, for same clock, is a 23% price increase for a 11% increase in speed. Seems like a diminishing law of returns.
Now - that being said - who has experience with a 6700? Goes up to 4.0 on turbo making it equal to a stock 6700K. Replace it a Hyper 212 instead of a stock cooler, and you're at $330. I Another way of looking at it:
6700K OC'd - $430 for 4.5 Ghz = $95 per GHz
6700 - $330 for 4Ghz = $83 per GHz
6600K OC'd - $280 for 4.5Ghz - $62 per GHz, BUT no hyperthreading.
Is an extra 500MHz going to make a world of difference in Adobe apps (since a 6700 would be in Turbo pretty much constantly working in professional apps)? It just seems to me . . . to be honest . . . is overclocking starting to become a non-viable to get better performance from a price to performance standpoint once one gets above the entry level / i3 range? I guess I'm trying to justify not buying a overclockable model and would love to hear other opinoins
srjtv wrote:Is an extra 500MHz going to make a world of difference in Adobe apps (since a 6700 would be in Turbo pretty much constantly working in professional apps)?
srjtv wrote:I won't lie, I'm interested in the rumors of Kaby Lake doing 6 cores in mainstream instead of HEDT equipment - though that launch date seems to have been pushed back to 2018 as part of Cannonlake, if I'm reading correctly.
EndlessWaves wrote:That would not help AMD's $ position. If their per-core performance is really matching Broadwell, I would expect the 6-core version to cost the same, if not slightly more, as the 6700K. The 8-core will go one level up and be around 400-600 (this one they can price anywhere under the 1K that the 6900K charges). At least these make more sense to me, unless the IPC is not up to snuff, or the chips cannot be clocked enough, or heat dissipation is bad.I'd certainly expect AMD to release an 8 core chip at 6700k pricing. For your use I'd say it's well worth waiting unless you're desperate for a new machine.
srjtv wrote:whereas the 6700K requires something on the lines of a H100i.
Flying Fox wrote:srjtv wrote:I won't lie, I'm interested in the rumors of Kaby Lake doing 6 cores in mainstream instead of HEDT equipment - though that launch date seems to have been pushed back to 2018 as part of Cannonlake, if I'm reading correctly.
You probably meant Coffee Lake. Kaby Lake is already rolling out.EndlessWaves wrote:I'd certainly expect AMD to release an 8 core chip at 6700k pricing. For your use I'd say it's well worth waiting unless you're desperate for a new machine.
That would not help AMD's $ position. If their per-core performance is really matching Broadwell, I would expect the 6-core version to cost the same, if not slightly more, as the 6700K. The 8-core will go one level up and be around 400-600 (this one they can price anywhere under the 1K that the 6900K charges). At least these make more sense to me, unless the IPC is not up to snuff, or the chips cannot be clocked enough, or heat dissipation is bad.
EndlessWaves wrote:The highest binned, fully enabled 8 core chips will be more of course but unless the 6 core version has it's own die then it won't save AMD any money on fabrication.
Flying Fox wrote:That would not help AMD's $ position. If their per-core performance is really matching Broadwell, I would expect the 6-core version to cost the same, if not slightly more, as the 6700K. The 8-core will go one level up and be around 400-600 (this one they can price anywhere under the 1K that the 6900K charges). At least these make more sense to me, unless the IPC is not up to snuff, or the chips cannot be clocked enough, or heat dissipation is bad.
sophisticles wrote:One thing I learned along the way, if you want to see how stable an overclock is try and encode video with it, especially x265. I have seen over-clocked rigs with water cooling that would run prime for hours no problem
sophisticles wrote:play any game you wanted
sophisticles wrote:I have seen this on systems I have built, that other people have built, if video work is your goal avoid over-clocking.
sophisticles wrote:and your electrical outlet. I used to live in an old building and I burned out two electrical sockets running an over-clocked system 24/7
sophisticles wrote:If you're serious about video, wait to see what Ryzen has to offer both in terms of performance and price range.
Glorious wrote:sophisticles wrote:and your electrical outlet. I used to live in an old building and I burned out two electrical sockets running an over-clocked system 24/7
What?
Or if you are serious about not dying you could talk to your landlord. If a CPU chugging an astronomical and virtually impossible 400 watts can burn out a socket, what happens when you plug in a $15 space heater or a $75 microwave?
Immediate flaming death?
tootercomputer wrote:My only complaint is that the hyper 212+ speeds up when the cpu loads up and is kind of loud and annoying.
Glorious wrote:sophisticles wrote:One thing I learned along the way, if you want to see how stable an overclock is try and encode video with it, especially x265. I have seen over-clocked rigs with water cooling that would run prime for hours no problem
While that is indeed a strenuous workload, prime95 loads the CPU more.
I didn't do this on a overclocked system, but it's observable reality on my E3 v5. I do roughly daily encodes with x265 for my homebrew DVR, and the occasional ripped blu-ray. Prime95 is much more of a load than either. This is reflected both in the temperature of the die and the power at the wall.
Glorious wrote:Or if you are serious about not dying you could talk to your landlord. If a CPU chugging an astronomical and virtually impossible 400 watts can burn out a socket, what happens when you plug in a $15 space heater or a $75 microwave?
The Egg wrote:I don't mean to pile on, but yeah. Or a vacuum cleaner, hair dryer, toaster, or god forbid a window-unit air conditioner. You're probably gonna want to address that issue ASAP (and also make sure you have some insurance).
Flying Fox wrote:Based on what I read, both of you can be correct with additional qualifying statements. The key to this is whether AVX2 is used. You missed quoting the AVX2 part from sophisticles. If the video encoder uses AVX2 instructions and Prime95 is before 28.x where AVX2 is not used, then the encoding is more strenuous. If Prime95 version is new enough, then its AVX2 load is even higher than AVX2 video encode from what I can gather.
sophisticles wrote:The Egg wrote:I don't mean to pile on, but yeah. Or a vacuum cleaner, hair dryer, toaster, or god forbid a window-unit air conditioner. You're probably gonna want to address that issue ASAP (and also make sure you have some insurance).
As I said, this was an old building I lived in for a while, don't live their anymore. Be that as it may, the appliances you mentioned, with the exception of a A/C don't get used for the length of time that an over-clocked pc does nor do they draw the same amount of juice.
The Egg wrote:Glorious wrote:sophisticles wrote:and your electrical outlet. I used to live in an old building and I burned out two electrical sockets running an over-clocked system 24/7
What?
Or if you are serious about not dying you could talk to your landlord. If a CPU chugging an astronomical and virtually impossible 400 watts can burn out a socket, what happens when you plug in a $15 space heater or a $75 microwave?
Immediate flaming death?
I don't mean to pile on, but yeah. Or a vacuum cleaner, hair dryer, toaster, or god forbid a window-unit air conditioner. You're probably gonna want to address that issue ASAP (and also make sure you have some insurance).
Flying Fox wrote:If the video encoder uses AVX2 instructions and Prime95 is before 28.x where AVX2 is not used, then the encoding is more strenuous. If Prime95 version is new enough, then its AVX2 load is even higher than AVX2 video encode from what I can gather.
Core 0: +59.0°C (high = +80.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 1: +54.0°C (high = +80.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 2: +55.0°C (high = +80.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 3: +53.0°C (high = +80.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 0: +69.0°C (high = +80.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 1: +60.0°C (high = +80.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 2: +63.0°C (high = +80.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 3: +59.0°C (high = +80.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 0: +60.0°C (high = +80.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 1: +55.0°C (high = +80.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 2: +57.0°C (high = +80.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
Core 3: +55.0°C (high = +80.0°C, crit = +100.0°C)
sophisticles wrote:X265 seems to be especially hard on the AVX2 units, though there is some anecdotal evidence that newer builds have cleaned up the AVX2 code a bit.
$15 space heaters are some of the most dangerous fire hazards in people homes precisely for the reason I stated
sophisticles wrote:you run them for hours an end drawing massive amount of current and you overheat the socket; a microwave isn't used long enough to have the same effect.
An over-clocked PC at full load for hours can have the same effect if the sockets and wiring are old
sophisticles wrote:probably a good idea to invest in a UPS if one is planning on running a high end pc for hours on end.
Glorious wrote:The solution is move, or get an electrician so you don't die. If a computer, overclocked or not, is burning up a socket that place is a deathtrap.