Personal computing discussed

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strangerguy
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Re: Ryzen 8C/16T at $320?

Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:42 am

Vhalidictes wrote:
I've found over the years that price/performance is simply more important than a set budget. My brother in law spent an insane amount of money for a PC once. I'm talking 5-7x the amount that I normally spent, and I had good equipment at the time. He said "this PC will be awesome for three times longer than your current one will be in service; I spent less money than you would."

It was a brand-new just-released Pentium Pro 200 system, and he was absolutely correct; he probably owned it for 6 years before replacing it, and I'd spend half as much three times over on upgrades during that time.

Now, I buy the price-performance king, it's usually the 2nd best part available at the time, and then keep it for 5+ years. This has saved me literally thousands over the years. I have a relatively-new i7-5820K family computer that sure, was really expensive at the time, but I won't need to upgrade it any time soon. 

Side note: hurrah for Intel's dumb product segmentation! If I actually cared about PCIe lanes I would have had to spend almost twice as much for the next CPU up (this was back when Haswell-E was just released).

I can't agree more. Which in the case for Zen rumored prices, unless you soooo cash-strapped it makes no sense not to at least get the $300 8C/16T SKU straight off the bat, in  an age where the expected useful life of CPUs is at least 5 years.
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whm1974
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Re: Ryzen 8C/16T at $320?

Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:56 am

strangerguy wrote:
Vhalidictes wrote:
I've found over the years that price/performance is simply more important than a set budget. My brother in law spent an insane amount of money for a PC once. I'm talking 5-7x the amount that I normally spent, and I had good equipment at the time. He said "this PC will be awesome for three times longer than your current one will be in service; I spent less money than you would."

It was a brand-new just-released Pentium Pro 200 system, and he was absolutely correct; he probably owned it for 6 years before replacing it, and I'd spend half as much three times over on upgrades during that time.

Now, I buy the price-performance king, it's usually the 2nd best part available at the time, and then keep it for 5+ years. This has saved me literally thousands over the years. I have a relatively-new i7-5820K family computer that sure, was really expensive at the time, but I won't need to upgrade it any time soon. 

Side note: hurrah for Intel's dumb product segmentation! If I actually cared about PCIe lanes I would have had to spend almost twice as much for the next CPU up (this was back when Haswell-E was just released).

I can't agree more. Which in the case for Zen rumored prices, unless you soooo cash-strapped it makes no sense not to at least get the $300 8C/16T SKU straight off the bat, in  an age where the expected useful life of CPUs is at least 5 years.

By all means a person should get what they can afford, but as I just telling a friend of mine yesterday, going at least with a midrange setup at the start now days can save you money in the long run. Well CPU wise that is.
 
derFunkenstein
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Re: Ryzen 8C/16T at $320?

Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:54 am

Kougar wrote:
AMD did release die size information, is there some reason you guys are ignoring it?? It seems unlikely the true number would be far off what they indicated  This is why I think AMD could get by with lower margins than Intel, it has an equivalent or better die-size, no fabs to support nor invest R&D in, a considerably smaller employee base, and has been shrinking its bottom line operating costs for the last decade. 

44mm2 isn't the full die size. That figure only accounts for the size of four cores and their cache. There's still a memory controller and a bunch of PCIe connectivity to account for. It should be a good chunk smaller than Bulldozer, though. That alone should be good news for AMD's margins.
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ptsant
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Re: Ryzen 8C/16T at $320?

Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:20 am

I'm wondering how much extra performance comes from XFR (limited to X processors) and the Wraith cooler. Worth testing with all kinds of cooling setups...
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Waco
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Re: Ryzen 8C/16T at $320?

Mon Feb 13, 2017 11:45 am

ptsant wrote:
I'm wondering how much extra performance comes from XFR (limited to X processors) and the Wraith cooler. Worth testing with all kinds of cooling setups...

I'm anxiously awaiting reviews. If XFS actually works well I would be surprised, but if I was a betting man, I'd bet it gives a few hundred MHz even with extreme cooling and doesn't touch manual overclocks. I'd be pleasantly surprised if there was a "exceed TDP by X%" setting somewhere to let it go crazy, though. With enough cooling that could be 5 GHz+ if the process is great...but I doubt that, given the supposed speeds of the 4C8T chips in the lineup.
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ptsant
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Re: Ryzen 8C/16T at $320?

Tue Feb 14, 2017 2:21 am

Waco wrote:
ptsant wrote:
I'm wondering how much extra performance comes from XFR (limited to X processors) and the Wraith cooler. Worth testing with all kinds of cooling setups...

I'm anxiously awaiting reviews.  If XFS actually works well I would be surprised, but if I was a betting man, I'd bet it gives a few hundred MHz even with extreme cooling and doesn't touch manual overclocks.  I'd be pleasantly surprised if there was a "exceed TDP by X%" setting somewhere to let it go crazy, though.  With enough cooling that could be 5 GHz+ if the process is great...but I doubt that, given the supposed speeds of the 4C8T chips in the lineup.

Well, a few hundred MHz is in the 3-5% range, which would bring Ryzen much closer to Intel chips in single-threaded. A 5% difference is an new Intel generation these days. Given that the chip reacts in the millisecond (or faster?) range, I think this will require a high quality VRM that delivers transient increases in voltage/current and a relatively massive cooler.
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strangerguy
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Re: Ryzen 8C/16T at $320?

Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:58 am

Waco wrote:
ptsant wrote:
I'm wondering how much extra performance comes from XFR (limited to X processors) and the Wraith cooler. Worth testing with all kinds of cooling setups...

I'm anxiously awaiting reviews.  If XFS actually works well I would be surprised, but if I was a betting man, I'd bet it gives a few hundred MHz even with extreme cooling and doesn't touch manual overclocks.  I'd be pleasantly surprised if there was a "exceed TDP by X%" setting somewhere to let it go crazy, though.  With enough cooling that could be 5 GHz+ if the process is great...but I doubt that, given the supposed speeds of the 4C8T chips in the lineup.

To me XFR sounds like Pascal's stock GPU boost 3.0, looks good at first until you realize it's too conservative in selecting the frequency/volt curve that it mostly defeats its own purpose.
I wouldn't bother with it if the actual OC headroom across the 8C/16T SKUs turns out to be more or less equal. 
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