Arbiter Odie wrote:End User wrote:AbRASiON wrote:If you don't play games, it's more than enough for windows / youtube.
You don't need a PC for YouTube/browsing/chat/music/Office/etc.
I would venture the opinion that an iPad counts as a PC
Touché.
Personal computing discussed
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Arbiter Odie wrote:End User wrote:AbRASiON wrote:If you don't play games, it's more than enough for windows / youtube.
You don't need a PC for YouTube/browsing/chat/music/Office/etc.
I would venture the opinion that an iPad counts as a PC
Arbiter Odie wrote:I don't know. I have less than 10 bookmarks, so I am the wrong person to ask, sorry!
End User wrote:Arbiter Odie wrote:I don't know. I have less than 10 bookmarks, so I am the wrong person to ask, sorry!
Good grief!
Arbiter Odie wrote:There is nothing silly about having 150 tabs open. In my own, personal, experience, bookmarks are rather clunky and I almost never re-open stuff once I've dropped into the bookmarks folder. But if I leave them open in tabs, it's all right there, and I almost always end up coming back to it. I use this for big long articles that look important, as well as forum threads.
Also, I have 32 GB of ram, and it doesn't help at all-- it's clearly the browser(s) not knowing being optimized for so many tabs. I suspect a Kaby clocked to 5GHz would be the best bet for helping the poor web browsers handle the unusual workflow.
Edit:
An example of an article that would receive this treatment.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/14/maga ... ening.html
xDoritox wrote:Ryzen's IPC is within 2-5% of Kaby Lake CPUs at the same or even slightly higher clocks.
xDoritox wrote:I don't think Intel's upcoming 6-core Skylake/Kaby Lake x CPUs will go beyond 4.2-4.5GHz, it's a nice boost yes, but there's no way Intel will sell them for anything under $500 USD. For that money, you can get the Ryzen 7 1800x overclock it to 4.1-4.2GHz and steamroll the competition.
whm1974 wrote:jihadjoe wrote:I feel that what you actually need isn't necessarily a faster CPU, but a ton of RAM. Most of the background tabs would be halted (as of Chrome 57 background tabs are restricted to 1% CPU), so whatever slowdown you get is coming from swapping the contents back into memory when you tab back. If you give each tab 256MB or so, at 150 tabs you'll need 38GB of RAM just so Chrome can keep the tab contents in memory.
Sounds like a NVMe SSD might help here as well, but I think having 150 tabs open is a bit silly. I do believe that if the OP changes his work flow and habits to something reasonable he will find his current system is good enough.
AbRASiON wrote:xDoritox wrote:Ryzen's IPC is within 2-5% of Kaby Lake CPUs at the same or even slightly higher clocks.
Untrue and it clocks quite poorly.xDoritox wrote:I don't think Intel's upcoming 6-core Skylake/Kaby Lake x CPUs will go beyond 4.2-4.5GHz, it's a nice boost yes, but there's no way Intel will sell them for anything under $500 USD. For that money, you can get the Ryzen 7 1800x overclock it to 4.1-4.2GHz and steamroll the competition.
I expect them to ship at most 4ghz turbo mode, stock, then overclock comfortably to 4.5
So you're likely looking at 500mhz higher than a Ryzen, you're looking at 2 cores and 2 more threads extra over a 7700k and you're looking at that kaby lake IPC to boot, PLUS you get a 'free' GPU?
Oh and the intel option works better with faster ram. People seem to be really, really struggling to hit 3000mhz, let alone 3200 and beyond.
Furthermore, the 7700k beats the Ryzen in quite a few benchmarks, and comes /damn close/ in some of the multithreaded. 50% more cores is going to substantially help.
Sorry, Ryzen doesn't appeal to my needs, I'm glad you like it - go for it, knock yourself out.
xDoritox wrote:Intel is asking too much for their processors that aren't really any faster than AMD's Ryzen.
For IPC, you can go check Anandtech's review of the 1600x and 1500x. They're using the latest BIOS, and the 1500x at 3.7GHz is on par or faster than 7600K at 4.2 in most "single-threaded" benchmarks there. In multi-threading it's like 50% to 2x sometimes for Ryzen, it's not even a competition.
In civilization after the recent patch, Ryzen is actually outperforming 7600/7600K.
The only difference between the 7600K and 7700K is the HT and the 300MHz higher clock speed, which adds extra 15-20% extra performance.
You don't really benefit from that measly iGPU on the desktop, you can get GTX1050Ti or RX470 for like $100 and smoke it.
With the latest BIOS, All Ryzen R5 and R7s work perfectly fine with 3200MHz RAM sticks.
Personally, in my honest opinion, I think the Ryzen 5 1600 non-x is the best CPU that can be bought right now for the money. 6-cores 12 threads for $230, overclocks to 3.9-4GHz no problems and is a beast.
DeadOfKnight wrote:Interesting strategy, this is. Looks like they are bringing more cores to the mainstream and lower cores to the enthusiast platforms. I'm guessing that Coffee Lake will be a drop in clock speed and advertised as the value option for professionals and kaby lake-x will be clocked higher and advertised as the fastest chip for gamers and upgradable to the highest end extreme processors.
It kind of makes sense, since they will likely be able to sell a significant number of chips this way, but the implications for the future and how this will affect consumers is not as clear. It seems more like this is a strategy to win the battle for marketing against AMD than anything. Sure, this may have been coming down the pipe for a long time, but there's no way Intel had no idea what to expect from AMD since pretty much all the rumors this time around turned out to be quite accurate.
Coffee Lake will crush benches against AMD's 6-core chips and KBL-X will crush AMD's 8-core processors in games at presumably similar price points. The question still remains about how soon we will see quad cores at the low end. I don't know about you guys, but I'm still eagerly awaiting the demise of dual core chips since the low end is always the determining factor for developers who try to target the largest range of compatibility with the hardware that's available.
xDoritox wrote:AbRASiON wrote:xDoritox wrote:Ryzen's IPC is within 2-5% of Kaby Lake CPUs at the same or even slightly higher clocks.
Untrue and it clocks quite poorly.xDoritox wrote:I don't think Intel's upcoming 6-core Skylake/Kaby Lake x CPUs will go beyond 4.2-4.5GHz, it's a nice boost yes, but there's no way Intel will sell them for anything under $500 USD. For that money, you can get the Ryzen 7 1800x overclock it to 4.1-4.2GHz and steamroll the competition.
I expect them to ship at most 4ghz turbo mode, stock, then overclock comfortably to 4.5
So you're likely looking at 500mhz higher than a Ryzen, you're looking at 2 cores and 2 more threads extra over a 7700k and you're looking at that kaby lake IPC to boot, PLUS you get a 'free' GPU?
Oh and the intel option works better with faster ram. People seem to be really, really struggling to hit 3000mhz, let alone 3200 and beyond.
Furthermore, the 7700k beats the Ryzen in quite a few benchmarks, and comes /damn close/ in some of the multithreaded. 50% more cores is going to substantially help.
Sorry, Ryzen doesn't appeal to my needs, I'm glad you like it - go for it, knock yourself out.
the 1500x at 3.7GHz is on par or faster than 7600K at 4.2 in most "single-threaded" benchmarks there. .
AbRASiON wrote:Please don't bring fantasy into the thread, this is actual discussion about the new chip in August.
If AMD can get to 4.7 and bring the ipc and being a GPU, then I might consider giving them airspace.
Vhalidictes wrote:AbRASiON wrote:Please don't bring fantasy into the thread, this is actual discussion about the new chip in August.
If AMD can get to 4.7 and bring the ipc and being a GPU, then I might consider giving them airspace.
RyZen IPC == Haswell IPC clock-for-clock. With less power and more cores.
If Haswell-level performance isn't satisfactory for you I'd like some of what you're smoking. In the case of a Gaming PC, sure, Kaby-Lake all the way (Pentium G4560 2C/4T).
But that's one use-case out of many.
Redocbew wrote:Dude, you're not helping here. Put the pitchfork away. The point is Ryzen doesn't suck. Obviously you've got your mind set on building an uber-PC. If component X doesn't measure up, because reasons, then don't buy it, but it still doesn't suck.
For my part, since I also like miniITX machines, both Ryzen and z370 are a bit too far out for me to wait on. I'm not very good at waiting when it comes to hardware anyway.
AbBRASiON wrote:Opening explorer, changing applications, changing tabs, closing applications, switching things from monitor to monitor, copying files, scanning files, printing, opening RDP connections, booting VMs , copying and pasting extremely extremely large graphics images, saving files, maximising windows, making flash video full screen. Opening local video files, etc
General.use. I want this particular element as quick as possible.
the wrote:Kaby Lake-X is just stupid. The benefits of the high end desktop platform won't be utilized as half the memory channels and half the PCIe lanes won't be used. Sure, there is more overclocking head room as the integrated graphics will be fused off and there is more TDP to use, officially at least. (Chip is expected to be rated at 112W but the socket reportedly is specced up to 165W and I'm sure some motherboard makers will go well beyond that.) So for the overclocking crowd this chip will be great but with so much else removed form the platform, I can't see recommending it to anyone else. The upgrade of Kaby Lake-X to Coffee Lake-X would be weird. There is already going to be 6 core Sky Lake-X chips when Kaby Lake-X arrives, so adding another one chip with fewer features but maybe higher clocks.
the wrote:Coffee Lake-S does make sense though as it will fit into existing LGA 1151 sockets and provide a 6 core upgrade path. Here, this makes sense. There is the possibility that motherboard manufacturers may permit this chip to be enabled on earlier Z170 boards. This mirrors Kaby Lake chips getting support on Z170 boards.
Redocbew wrote:For my part, since I also like miniITX machines, both Ryzen and z370 are a bit too far out for me to wait on. I'm not very good at waiting when it comes to hardware anyway.
Vhalidictes wrote:Redocbew wrote:For my part, since I also like miniITX machines, both Ryzen and z370 are a bit too far out for me to wait on. I'm not very good at waiting when it comes to hardware anyway.
If I ever end up building a Mini-ITX machine (I hope to at some point), I'll definitely use RyZen as running Intel's 4-channel CPUs with only 2 DIMMs doesn't make any sense.
Vhalidictes wrote:Redocbew wrote:For my part, since I also like miniITX machines, both Ryzen and z370 are a bit too far out for me to wait on. I'm not very good at waiting when it comes to hardware anyway.
If I ever end up building a Mini-ITX machine (I hope to at some point), I'll definitely use RyZen as running Intel's 4-channel CPUs with only 2 DIMMs doesn't make any sense.
whm1974 wrote:Well that and we wouldn't want to put a 140w CPU in a mITX case anyway, so RyZen it is.
AbRASiON wrote:Interesting, yet another one of the reasons I won't consider Ryzen is how impractical it is for me as an ITX person, the lack of a gpu means more heat, noise and cost in a small case.
Intel onboard is perfect for my needs and it's extremely possible Intel will be the first to make a 6 core CPU with video in August. Perfect for my two itx machines.
credible wrote:AbRASiON wrote:Interesting, yet another one of the reasons I won't consider Ryzen is how impractical it is for me as an ITX person, the lack of a gpu means more heat, noise and cost in a small case.
Intel onboard is perfect for my needs and it's extremely possible Intel will be the first to make a 6 core CPU with video in August. Perfect for my two itx machines.
I would put this in for the price with a $230 6/12 RyZen and be done with it as its 3 to 4 times faster than the Iris Intel HD 630.
http://techreport.com/news/31825/visiontek-adds-a-radeon-rx-550-to-its-lineup
Redocbew wrote:Isn't the claimed 15% performance increase for Coffee Lake the same thing Intel said about Kaby Lake? I guess we'll just have to wait and see what changes there are(if any) to the architecture.
The wiki page on coffee lake lists two stories at WCCFTech as sources, so..... yeah, I'm not going to read much into things until we have more to go on.