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whm1974
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:19 pm

just brew it! wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
JustAnEngineer wrote:
To be fair... I do believe that End User's Macbook has utility. I just don't believe that it's exempt from price/performance analysis (nor any laws of physics). Zenbooks aren't the cheapest laptops, either.

I would get me something from System76.

What were you just saying about droids? :wink:

From the reviews I've read and the YouTube reviews I watched, supposedly they sell decent products with good support. And unlike Apple, they are upgradable!!!
DancinJack wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
Come to think of think it my preconceived notions probably mostly applies to those who buy iPhones and iMacs.

...and what would your preconceived notions about iPhone users be, then?


I never saw an answer to this. Did I miss it?

No I forgot to answer, most of them are droids.
 
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:37 pm

Vhalidictes wrote:
one thing I'm always looking out for is 200-300 watt high-end PSUs. I always end up over-speccing because they just don't seem to exist at any kind of reasonable price any more.


Seasonic G series are a great mid-range PSU.Don't know if the 360 Watt is available any more.
Corsairs SFF 450 is a nice unit-but I'd avoid all their other cheaper gear.
You might find more here-
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=111399
 
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:47 pm

whm1974 wrote:
Captain Ned wrote:
It just hit me in remembrance and I now know why EndUser is an Apple-Droid. I haven't searched for the exact thread, but he led us on a multi-page merry chase why Apple was right to eliminate the 3.5mm jack on iPhone 7, most of which was for aesthetic reasons, and that every other phone mfg should do the same.

I remember that thread. As I recall, I was the one arguing that there nothing wrong with the 3.5mm jack at all. I'm wondering just how we ended up with a Apple-droid on a forum where most of users are folks who enjoy building custom computers?

I've been building PCs for 30 years. Even my sig is PC heavy. Yet, for some strange reason, PC people resort to name calling when the mere hint that one is Mac user is made apparent. For shame Captain Ned. For shame.

My thoughts on the 3.5mm port have nothing to do with aesthetics. I use Bluetooth headphones (Jaybird X2 / AirPods / MDR-1000X) with my mobile devices so, for me, the 3.5mm port is useless.
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whm1974
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:05 pm

End User wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
Captain Ned wrote:
It just hit me in remembrance and I now know why EndUser is an Apple-Droid. I haven't searched for the exact thread, but he led us on a multi-page merry chase why Apple was right to eliminate the 3.5mm jack on iPhone 7, most of which was for aesthetic reasons, and that every other phone mfg should do the same.

I remember that thread. As I recall, I was the one arguing that there nothing wrong with the 3.5mm jack at all. I'm wondering just how we ended up with a Apple-droid on a forum where most of users are folks who enjoy building custom computers?

I've been building PCs for 30 years. Even my sig is PC heavy. Yet, for some strange reason, PC people resort to name calling when the mere hint that one is Mac user is made apparent. For shame Captain Ned. For shame.

My thoughts on the 3.5mm port have nothing to do with aesthetics. I use Bluetooth headphones (Jaybird X2 / AirPods / MDR-1000X) with my mobile devices so, for me, the 3.5mm port is useless.

The MacOS users who are using the last Mac pro that came in a tower form factor, and are using MacOS due to better workflow or such, or a MacBook Pro with decent specs, I don't make fun as much as the iMac owners.
 
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:36 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Flying Fox wrote:
The Egg wrote:
You guys realize this is all just a matter of opinion? It's a pointless thread with no answer.

You realize who the OP is? :lol: :P

Yes, he already made that observation several posts back.

Maybe the thread should be renamed "What is the REAL point of this THREAD?"


What's the real point of *any* of his threads?
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Tue Jun 06, 2017 10:53 pm

whm1974 wrote:
The MacOS users who are using the last Mac pro that came in a tower form factor, and are using MacOS due to better workflow or such, or a MacBook Pro with decent specs, I don't make fun as much as the iMac owners.

When it comes to spending other peoples money (namely my employers) I have no problem with a properly spec'ed 27" iMac. They make for fantastic workstations. Easy-peasy-lemon-squeezy.

I am tempted by the iMac Pro for use at home. I have no need for one but it is a tasty looking dish. It has price (big), performance (big), and a curve from certain angles.

Question: Is the iMac Pro a consumer product?
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Wed Jun 07, 2017 12:43 am

There are several main kinds of people who like to categorize things and they don't get along or even interact until some rabble-rouser forces the issue:

Those that like to divide things into two binary/bivalent groups (e.g. Boolean true/false, good/bad, black/white) will see only Consumer and Professional

While those who see three (e.g. good-better-best) will see Consumer-Prosumer-Professional

And then there was Linnaeus.


As for those who don't like the line graphs, there's honestly not much that can be done when the data consists only of initial MSRP prices which can be easily obtained from period reviews. A chart with the 4th axis of time would indeed be much more useful but compiling it wouldn't be easy--those Amazon charts only go by one particular sku and PriceSCAN went under six years ago so you are welcome to peruse old Computer Shoppers for the data! I think we can agree that the prices mostly seemed to drop around a hundred bucks or so per year until they were discontinued, except for those perennial Radeon 9250 and Geforce 6200 cards that oddly continued to be sold new for 10 years. For those interested the adjusted 2017 numbers are here and you can see the 1080ti is about the same price as a Geforce 2 Ultra so not much changes. The largest price swing was after ATI's budget HD4870 kicked high-end 8800GTX butt so competition is good for consumers!

I guess you could consider Titan "Prosumer" if Quadro and FirePro are "Professional." As for the Mac Pro it has "Pro" right in the name and Xeons inside.
 
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Wed Jun 07, 2017 3:04 am

The original Kepler Titans might have been "prosumer" cards, but the Maxwell and Pascal Titans have definitely been designed and optimized as gaming GPUs from the get-go. The newer Titans have no more compute capacity than any other GeForce gaming graphics card. NVidia's Titan branding from 2015 onward has just been about getting higher prices for their top-tier gaming cards.
2010 GeForce GTX 480 - GF100 - 0.17 TFlops DP
2011 GeForce GTX 580 - GF110 - 0.20 TFlops DP
2012 GeForce GTX 680 - GK104 - 0.13 TFlops DP
2013 GeForce GTX Titan - GK110 - 1.3 TFlops DP
2013 GeForce GTX 780Ti - GK110 - 0.21 TFlops DP
2014 GeForce GTX Titan Black - GK110 - 1.7 TFlops DP
2014 GeForce GTX Titan Z - 2x GK110 - 2.7 TFlops DP
2015 GeForce GTX Titan X - GM200 - 0.19 TFlops DP
2015 GeForce GTX 980Ti - GM200 - 0.18 TFlops DP
2016 Titan X - GP102 - 0.33 TFlops DP
2017 GeForce GTX 1080Ti - GP102 - 0.32 TFlops DP
2017 Titan Xp - GP102 - 0.36 TFlops DP

Travbrad wrote:
If we are going to complain about prices on hardware getting silly, I'd start with graphics cards not CPUs.
Travbrad was absolutely right. NVidia has driven up gaming graphics card prices at a faster pace than Intel has driven up CPU prices. Conversely, one might also point out that NVidia and AMD have significantly increased gaming GPU performance with each generation, while Intel has been content to dribble out only very small performance upgrades with Ivy Bridge, Haswell, Broadwell, Skylake and Kaby Lake since Sandy Bridge arrived in January 2011. The top-performing NVidia graphics card at that time was the GeForce GTX480 using the Fermi GF100 GPU - less than one eighth as powerful as their current top-end gaming graphics cards.
Last edited by JustAnEngineer on Fri Jun 30, 2017 9:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:31 am

Vhalidictes wrote:
One thing I'm always looking out for is 200-300 watt high-end PSUs. I always end up over-speccing because they just don't seem to exist at any kind of reasonable price any more.
HERETIC wrote:
Seasonic G series are a great mid-range PSU.Don't know if the 360 Watt is available any more.
$60 from Amazon:
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:53 am

JustAnEngineer wrote:
The newer Titans have no more compute capacity than any other GeForce gaming graphics card. NVidia's Titan branding from 2015 onward has just been about getting higher prices for their top-tier gaming cards.
Gosh, plenty of Xeons have no more IPC, cores, GHz or special capabilities than regular old Core i CPUs, and many of them were even completely identical except for the socket interface. Does that mean they aren't really Enterprise CPUs for workstations?

The difference is the intended target market--Prosumer gear in general is all about getting higher prices by selling needlessly high performance equipment to those who just want the best and are willing to pay for it but generally don't need it and won't be using it for much actual work anyway. For the typical Prosumer gaming usage both Titan and i9 are poor value because they aren't too noticeably better than Consumer gear for that. If they perform no better can you really say they are driving up prices of gaming? It's more like they are taking advantage of a few suckers and know there aren't too many of those. The best part is they'll feel compelled to upgrade next year too when the lowly 1170 beats it.

If you actually need compute power for Professional use, Nvidia's Tesla V100 is rated 7.5 TFlops DP and the previous P100 5.3 TFlops. They don't want people using relatively cheap Prosumer gear for Enterprise use, and found most Prosumer customers don't care about compute anyway so it's a win-win for them. So no, Prosumer isn't actually intended for work.
 
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:01 am

JustAnEngineer wrote:
2013 GeForce GTX Titan - GK110 - 1.3 TFlops DP
2013 GeForce GTX 780Ti - GK110 - 0.21 TFlops DP
2014 GeForce GTX Titan Black - GK110 - 1.7 TFlops DP
2014 GeForce GTX Titan Z - 2x GK110 - 2.7 TFlops DP
2015 GeForce GTX Titan X - GM200 - 0.19 TFlops DP
2015 GeForce GTX 980Ti - GM200 - 0.18 TFlops DP
2016 Titan X - GP102 - 0.33 TFlops DP
2017 GeForce GTX 1080Ti - GP102 - 0.32 TFlops DP
2017 Titan Xp - GP102 - 0.36 TFlops DP

Thanks for reminding everyone just how stupid Nvidia's naming scheme is for Titan GPUs. :lol:
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:24 am

bthylafh wrote:
What's the real point of *any* of his threads?

For the lolz? :lol:
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:44 am

whm1974 wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
I would get me something from System76.

What were you just saying about droids? :wink:

From the reviews I've read and the YouTube reviews I watched, supposedly they sell decent products with good support. And unlike Apple, they are upgradable!!!

In case you missed it, I was referring to the irony of you complaining about Apple "droids", then going on to recommend a vendor that specializes in selling only Linux-based systems. :wink:
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:33 am

bfg-9000 wrote:
There are several main kinds of people who like to categorize things and they don't get along or even interact until some rabble-rouser forces the issue:

Those that like to divide things into two binary/bivalent groups (e.g. Boolean true/false, good/bad, black/white) will see only Consumer and Professional

While those who see three (e.g. good-better-best) will see Consumer-Prosumer-Professional

And then there was Linnaeus.


As for those who don't like the line graphs, there's honestly not much that can be done when the data consists only of initial MSRP prices which can be easily obtained from period reviews. A chart with the 4th axis of time would indeed be much more useful but compiling it wouldn't be easy--those Amazon charts only go by one particular sku and PriceSCAN went under six years ago so you are welcome to peruse old Computer Shoppers for the data! I think we can agree that the prices mostly seemed to drop around a hundred bucks or so per year until they were discontinued, except for those perennial Radeon 9250 and Geforce 6200 cards that oddly continued to be sold new for 10 years. For those interested the adjusted 2017 numbers are here and you can see the 1080ti is about the same price as a Geforce 2 Ultra so not much changes. The largest price swing was after ATI's budget HD4870 kicked high-end 8800GTX butt so competition is good for consumers!

I guess you could consider Titan "Prosumer" if Quadro and FirePro are "Professional." As for the Mac Pro it has "Pro" right in the name and Xeons inside.

You basically shot yourself in the foot with your last sentence. My 12" MacBook is an awesome laptop perfectly suited to the mobile profesional yet it does not have Pro in the name. The 13" MacBook Pro is a tremendously popular laptop in the consumer market. Having Pro in the name is a purely a marketing RDF.

By your logic the i9 series of processors should not be used by professionals. Absolutely ridiculous!
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:43 am

bfg-9000 wrote:
They look pretty stable to me, except the very highest-end 7980 extreme edition equivalents:
ImageProps to [H]


I wanna see the 8800GT on that graph. AFAIK that was the biggest ever price drop on the GPU high-end ever. Nvidia basically made a chip that had 90% of the performance of the 8800GTX and sold it at about a third of the price.
 
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Wed Jun 07, 2017 4:07 pm

Chrispy_ wrote:
Ifalna wrote:
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I'm pretty sure that's autocorrect at work, but I hope (for the sake of entertainment value) that I'm wrong.

Not at all.
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Wed Jun 07, 2017 6:29 pm

End User wrote:
My 12" MacBook is an awesome laptop perfectly suited to the mobile profesional yet it does not have Pro in the name. The 13" MacBook Pro is a tremendously popular laptop in the consumer market. Having Pro in the name is a purely a marketing RDF.

By your logic the i9 series of processors should not be used by professionals. Absolutely ridiculous!
This is just comedy gold right here, an Apple user complaining about marketing RDF! But it's absolutely true--all marketing is RDF.

This entire thread has been about how CPUs are all pretty much the same products with a little artificial product segmentation of enabling or disabling a few bells and whistles for different markets. It's important to realize these are all marketing distinctions so does not mean that one market cannot use products intended for another. A professional who needs more cores but doesn't need the Enterprise feature of ECC would be well served by i9, for example. Or to put it as you would: by your logic professionals are not consumers. Absolutely ridiculous!

Consumer grade products are aimed at most customers who are very price conscious
Prosumer grade products are mostly intended for people who have more money than sense
Enterprise class products are for those who absolutely need the performance or reliability for work. For them time is money so they are the least price-sensitive segment.

It's marketing 101: all of these buyers are consumers. But you can see by these definitions that Apple makes virtually no consumer grade products at all.
 
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:25 pm

Real consumer CPUs?

The ARM chips in your phone/tablet/toaster!
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:29 pm

Yeah, but nobody cares about those. They're like ants. They're everywhere, and they outweigh us all, but only those weird bug doctors spend any time thinking about them.
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:40 pm

chuckula wrote:
Real consumer CPUs?

The ARM chips in your phone/tablet/toaster!

+1

I wonder hour Moore's Law looks if you "reset" it to ARM rather than intel. Those chips seem to get the kind of jumps in performance that we had in the 2000's and earlier with x86.
 
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:37 am

Losergamer04 wrote:
chuckula wrote:
Real consumer CPUs?

The ARM chips in your phone/tablet/toaster!

+1

I wonder hour Moore's Law looks if you "reset" it to ARM rather than intel. Those chips seem to get the kind of jumps in performance that we had in the 2000's and earlier with x86.

Looks like x86 has finally started to run out of steam like everyone used to say it would. Even Intel believed this back in early 90's.
 
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:00 am

whm1974 wrote:
OK after hearing all about AMD and Intel's new "Threadripper" and Core i9 CPUs along with their price tags, I'm beginning to wonder what exactly is a consumer CPU? Don't get wrong, I love having high end hardware but I would have to be making money with it to consider buying what are now considered to be consumer products even if I was filthy rich. The most I'll pay for a CPU is maybe ~400ish with s/h and a nice aftermarket HSF included.

At point do we start to get really silly?


Take cars as an example. Thirty years ago BMW produced series 3, 5 and 7 with a choice of 2-3 engines for each. Today, BMW produces series 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and X1, X3, X4, X5, X6 (X2 is coming). Each series comes with a range of engines and a range of sub-models (cabrio, coupe, GT). Now take coffee as an example. Twenty years ago we had the choice of coffee with/without milk and with/without sugar. Today, choosing a coffee at Starbuck is a hard combinatorial problem that has no known optimal solution.

The general trend in almost all industries is to increase the variety of products to cover all possible use cases. This has been enabled by automation and modular design. Intel doesn't really make 30 different cores, they make 2-3 basic design then fiddle with the frequency, fuse some options on/off (VT, HT, ECC etc etc) and generate a different product for every application. What I'm saying, is that it doesn't really cost Intel much more in development to have 50 CPUs than to have 5.

Now, some of these products have extremely fat margins and are very expensive. These "halo" products (think the Titan) are useful for those who are price elastic (rich) or feature-sensitive (business/pro) and at the same time provide an anchor point for marketing and pricing. If the Titan is great and is worth $1500, then surely the 1060 can't be bad at $300.

Anyway, coming to your question, I think that there is no real cutoff. If I had to generalize for a "median" western country, I would put the range of meaningful CPUs for a consumer at $50-$400, with most being sub-$200. I live in a relatively rich country and the most expensive CPU to break into the top-10 of the biggest online retailer is the 7700K at 359, the cheapest being the G4560 at 68. I bet that the sum of sales of the top 10 CPUs probably amounts to something like 80-90% of all CPU sales, so that range ($50-$400) is probably the biggest part of the pie.
Image
 
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:03 am

Losergamer04 wrote:
chuckula wrote:
Real consumer CPUs?

The ARM chips in your phone/tablet/toaster!

+1

I wonder hour Moore's Law looks if you "reset" it to ARM rather than intel. Those chips seem to get the kind of jumps in performance that we had in the 2000's and earlier with x86.


It won't last. ARM chips have been harvesting the low-hanging fruit of CPU development. As they approach x86_64 complexity and process limitations they will stagnate. There is no inherent benefit to the ARM instruction set, only the fact that they are open and pushed by very rich players (Apple, Samsung...).
Image
 
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Thu Jun 08, 2017 3:16 am

ptsant wrote:
Losergamer04 wrote:
chuckula wrote:
Real consumer CPUs?

The ARM chips in your phone/tablet/toaster!

+1

I wonder hour Moore's Law looks if you "reset" it to ARM rather than intel. Those chips seem to get the kind of jumps in performance that we had in the 2000's and earlier with x86.


It won't last. ARM chips have been harvesting the low-hanging fruit of CPU development. As they approach x86_64 complexity and process limitations they will stagnate. There is no inherent benefit to the ARM instruction set, only the fact that they are open and pushed by very rich players (Apple, Samsung...).

Room for the RISC-V ISA? Niche for sure, but if I could get a low cost and small RISC-V PC I would just to check it out.
 
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:23 am

whm1974 wrote:
ptsant wrote:
It won't last. ARM chips have been harvesting the low-hanging fruit of CPU development. As they approach x86_64 complexity and process limitations they will stagnate. There is no inherent benefit to the ARM instruction set, only the fact that they are open and pushed by very rich players (Apple, Samsung...).

Room for the RISC-V ISA? Niche for sure, but if I could get a low cost and small RISC-V PC I would just to check it out.

RISC-V is subject to the same constraints as ARM, and doesn't have ARM's momentum in the market. There may indeed be be room for them to carve out a niche for themselves, but I think the odds of them becoming the next ARM (or significantly improving on ARM in performance or performance/watt) are not good.

Interesting side note: AMD is a member of the RISC-V Foundation.
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:29 pm

End User wrote:
A consumer product is anything I can buy.


Exactly. A consumer, by definition, is one who "consumes", or purchases in this case.

I've had boxes around with all sorts of things. Dual Pentium Pro 200. My current Devil's Canyon i7-4790k and Skylake mobile quad i5-6440HQ. The K6-233MHz (not K6-2, K6-3) when it was a $400 top-of-the-line CPU, fastest x86 processor in the world for all of 30 days (until Intel, in their anxiety shipped the Pentium II early). Price, cores, or threads aren't what determine whether it's a consumer CPU or not.

A Core i9 or an AMD Threadripper will still be a consumer CPU because I can purchase it, as opposed to a Cray XC supercomputer, which I cannot. I can purchase mainboards and RAM for them and they support consumer operating systems.
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:44 pm

LoneWolf15 wrote:
End User wrote:
A consumer product is anything I can buy.


Exactly. A consumer, by definition, is one who "consumes", or purchases in this case.

I've had boxes around with all sorts of things. Dual Pentium Pro 200. My current Devil's Canyon i7-4790k and Skylake mobile quad i5-6440HQ. The K6-233MHz (not K6-2, K6-3) when it was a $400 top-of-the-line CPU, fastest x86 processor in the world for all of 30 days (until Intel, in their anxiety shipped the Pentium II early). Price, cores, or threads aren't what determine whether it's a consumer CPU or not.

A Core i9 or an AMD Threadripper will still be a consumer CPU because I can purchase it, as opposed to a Cray XC supercomputer, which I cannot. I can purchase mainboards and RAM for them and they support consumer operating systems.

OK I can see your point. Yeah I guess you could say that since The Core i9 and Threadripper are meant to be purchasable by consumers, then they are consumer products. And yes, I know there are a few people at least who can make use of them.
 
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Fri Jun 09, 2017 9:59 pm

whm1974 wrote:
LoneWolf15 wrote:
End User wrote:
A consumer product is anything I can buy.


Exactly. A consumer, by definition, is one who "consumes", or purchases in this case.

I've had boxes around with all sorts of things. Dual Pentium Pro 200. My current Devil's Canyon i7-4790k and Skylake mobile quad i5-6440HQ. The K6-233MHz (not K6-2, K6-3) when it was a $400 top-of-the-line CPU, fastest x86 processor in the world for all of 30 days (until Intel, in their anxiety shipped the Pentium II early). Price, cores, or threads aren't what determine whether it's a consumer CPU or not.

A Core i9 or an AMD Threadripper will still be a consumer CPU because I can purchase it, as opposed to a Cray XC supercomputer, which I cannot. I can purchase mainboards and RAM for them and they support consumer operating systems.

OK I can see your point. Yeah I guess you could say that since The Core i9 and Threadripper are meant to be purchasable by consumers, then they are consumer products. And yes, I know there are a few people at least who can make use of them.


One might call them "prosumer products", as in best used by CAD work folks, 3D design and animation people, physics modeling, raytracing, and on. However, the term prosumer really just means a consumer with either a bigger need or a bigger wallet.
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Sat Jun 10, 2017 3:34 pm

Mainstream "best value" processors have changed over the years, but today they're even lower-priced than they used to be.

The best value desktop processor for the last seven years has been the Intel Celeron, starting at $40USD.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 24G57Z4602

Two full cores based on the latest architecture, clocked at about 75% of the speed of the higher-end parts with half the L3 cache , everything but AVX functional, and cut-yet-functional integrated graphics. Intel unlocked all the video transcode features of these chips starting with Ivy Bridge, so there's no performance difference between the two, if you're not playing games on integrated graphics. It's surprisingly close in performance/clock compared to it's bigger brothers, thanks to the integrated memory controller and integrated PCIe lanes.

Pentiums have been poor values, as they are still 2 cores without AVX, and the price goes up quickly for very small performance improvements. The only standout was the Haswell unlocked Pentium, which made the brand relevant again.

The best-value midrange gaming processor was always the $120 Core i3. Came with uncut integrated graphics (if you wanted to try getting-by with on-board), full AVX (mostly affects encoding), 20% faster clock, and four full threads for better multi-tasking.

But Kaby Lake has turned that value proposition on it's head! The $70 Pentium has four threads just like the old Core i3, but like all Pentiums it's clocked TANTALIZINGLY CLOSE to the $120 Core i3.

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 6819117743

So after seven years of boredom Intel finally turned the value question completely on it's head.

AMD's Bulldozer-derived dual-cores are terrible. AMD's only good value processor TODAY starts at the 4-core parts,

And until they finally release Ryzen APU parts, that Intel Pentium rolls right over those quads, unless you want powerful integrated graphics.
 
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Re: What are REAL consumer CPUs?

Sat Jun 10, 2017 6:08 pm

LoneWolf15 wrote:

A Core i9 or an AMD Threadripper will still be a consumer CPU because I can purchase it, as opposed to a Cray XC supercomputer, which I cannot.

Cray will happily sell you an XC rack or few hundred racks if you want it - it just takes a lot of coin. :)
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