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whm1974
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Intel needs to fire thier marketing team.

Mon Jun 26, 2017 7:43 pm

OK the more I read about Intel's new Socket 2066 CPUs, the less they any sense. Especially the quad core i5 and i7 ones. Personally I think Intel should have thought this out a bit longer than they did, as this sounds like a knee jerk response to AMD Threadripper then anything else.

Here is I would have done:

1) Release a six core CPU for current 1151 motherboards.
2) Rename the HEDT CPUs to Core i9.
3) Only have 8 core and above CPUs for Socket 2066

The only reason to even have a four core CPU on the 2066 platform is higher clockspeed and it should be able to use every feature of the chipset. If I can't reach 5Gzh or better at stock, then why bother?

Or does this makes too much sense for a large corporation to do?
 
Krogoth
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Re: Intel needs to fire thier marketing team.

Mon Jun 26, 2017 8:51 pm

Kaby Lake-X only exists because Intel cannot get enough Skylake-X silicon into retail and motherboard channel at this time. They weren't expecting to launch Socket 2066/X299 so soon. They were originally shooting for a Q4 2017-Q1 2018 launch but pressure from Ryzen and now Threadripper has forced Intel's hands to deploy Socket 2066/X299 earlier then expected and it shows. They were forced to repackage existing Kaby Lake silicon onto Socket 2066 in order to get enough units out to X299/Socket 2066 platform.

Kaby Lake-X is pretty much "Celeron" of HEDT platform and will most likely phased out as soon as Intel manages to get enough Skylake-X silicon into channel and at that point Coffee Lake/Socket1151+ will make current Kaby Lake-X completely pointless.
Last edited by Krogoth on Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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whm1974
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Re: Intel needs to fire thier marketing team.

Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:00 pm

Even so, I still wouldn't bother producing quad cores for 2066 unless they will have higher clockspeeds at stock and support all of the features of the x299 chipset.
 
blahsaysblah
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Re: Intel needs to fire thier marketing team.

Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:02 pm

While they fail on execution too much (NUCs are too noisy, 600p m.2 drive is just total fail as an SSD, new Intel drivers ship too buggy) they are hitting actual market needs. Just big failures on execution. Remember, everything they make has to have a ridiculous margin per Wall Street expectations due to Intel's own monopoly and monstrous size. Like those massive cargo ships that take many minutes to slow down or turn.

Kaby Lake X is probably testing waters to move lower margin Z chipset/K CPUs into higher margin X chipset, workstation/premium CPUs segment. Also, the increased volume would improve their already high margins on the premium products. I very much think this was done before or has anything to do with Zen/Threadripper.

edit: they had already started in skylake time frame to get rid of cheap Xeons on consumer boards. Xeons need the Cxxx chipset boards.
 
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Re: Intel needs to fire thier marketing team.

Mon Jun 26, 2017 9:51 pm

whm1974 wrote:
Or does this makes too much sense for a large corporation to do?


Yes, stop making sense already :)
I agree it is annoying what Intel is doing with Core-X. HEDT-CPUs should all have enough PCIe lanes to run a wide variety of add-in parts. On one hand, I do like the new X299 motherboard capabilities since I add audio cards, PCIe Wi-Fi, M.2 SSDs (or 2 in PCIe) and maybe SLI occasionally. It’s what a PC enthusiast likes to do as a hobby right? I can use more lanes but Intel is confounding a lot of folks with the way they divided up the Kaby i5 and Skylake i7/i9 Core-X series. On the other hand, I’m wondering if it is really worth the expense for the capabilities?
The reviews for Core-X are favorable for the most part except for the low-end Kaby-X CPUs because those do not make sense at all. The power draw when overclocking the higher end Skylake-X is concerning from what I'm reading. Bottom-line this is an interesting time now between Intel and AMD for those building a new HEDT. I like what I’m hearing so far about ThreadRipper giving all their series the same amount of 64 PCIE lanes and all 4-channel memory. Looking forward to TR’s reviews when those are released.
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Re: Intel needs to fire thier marketing team.

Mon Jun 26, 2017 10:55 pm

whm1974 wrote:
Even so, I still wouldn't bother producing quad cores for 2066 unless they will have higher clockspeeds at stock and support all of the features of the x299 chipset.


The Core i5 7640 and the Core i7 7740 do have the higher 4GHz+ clock speeds but they only support dual channel memory and a limited amount of PCI-E express lanes which will severely limit your options if you had any intention of running multiple GPU's and even a full PCI-E 3.0 x4 m.2 nVME SSD.

Don't forget the kneejerk reaction to Ryzen Threadripper with the annoucement of an 18-Core chip just to outdue AMD in the m0ar c0r3s category. AIB partners didn't even have this knowledge prior to its annoucement at Computex.

I have also just read that the Skylake-X chips are susceptible to the Hyperthreading issue the Skylake-E and Kaby Lake-E chips are. I would definitely wait for Ryzen Threadripper to release before considering an X299 build.
 
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Re: Intel needs to fire thier marketing team.

Mon Jun 26, 2017 11:12 pm

Yup, Intel's mainstream 6-core should have already be ready for production by SKL, not until Cannonlake. With the exception of the 7700K and G4650 their entire mainstream lineup is utter garbage after Ryzen.

Like ~99% of the people out there I can care less towards either HEDT platforms from Intel or AMD.

Anyway, I'm more interested in seeing Apple's A11 CPU/GPU gains and their other in-house designed ICs this year than anything coming out from the PC side.
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Vhalidictes
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Re: Intel needs to fire thier marketing team.

Tue Jun 27, 2017 10:38 am

I definitely get the sense that Intel Marketing is in charge of the current lineup, not Engineering. Which is new for Intel (and possibly bad).

The main advantage that Intel's resources have given them over competitors has been time to slow down and think rather than rapidly (over)reacting. Which isn't to say that pulling the new HEDT platform is a mistake (this time), but it's a bad place to be.
 
whm1974
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Re: Intel needs to fire thier marketing team.

Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:15 pm

Vhalidictes wrote:
I definitely get the sense that Intel Marketing is in charge of the current lineup, not Engineering. Which is new for Intel (and possibly bad).

The main advantage that Intel's resources have given them over competitors has been time to slow down and think rather than rapidly (over)reacting. Which isn't to say that pulling the new HEDT platform is a mistake (this time), but it's a bad place to be.

Several Youtube videos I've watched on Intel's new HEDT platform have mention the possibility of Intel combining both the mainstream and HEDT into one socket later on.
 
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Re: Intel needs to fire thier marketing team.

Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:26 pm

The lackluster bulldozer/piledriver performance allowed intel to take baby steps on price/performance while reducing production cost, increasing margins.

Now that ryzen is here and performs well they should just lower prices imo, but they seem rather reluctant and instead launched a confusing new lineup.
 
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Re: Intel needs to fire thier marketing team.

Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:33 pm

whm1974 wrote:
Several Youtube videos I've watched on Intel's new HEDT platform have mention the possibility of Intel combining both the mainstream and HEDT into one socket later on.


That sounds reasonable to me. Intel's strategy of retiring sockets before upgrading makes sense isn't new. At this point they probably consider every CPU sale to be a chipset sale.
 
whm1974
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Re: Intel needs to fire thier marketing team.

Tue Jun 27, 2017 3:45 pm

Vhalidictes wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
Several Youtube videos I've watched on Intel's new HEDT platform have mention the possibility of Intel combining both the mainstream and HEDT into one socket later on.


That sounds reasonable to me. Intel's strategy of retiring sockets before upgrading makes sense isn't new. At this point they probably consider every CPU sale to be a chipset sale.

Aren't modern x86 CPUs pretty close to being SoC anyway? Come to think of it, isn't possible use the Ryzen CPUs without having a chipset on the motherboard?
 
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Re: Intel needs to fire thier marketing team.

Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:14 am

whm1974 wrote:
Aren't modern x86 CPUs pretty close to being SoC anyway? Come to think of it, isn't possible use the Ryzen CPUs without having a chipset on the motherboard?


Ye, at least for some chips. See http://techreport.com/news/32139/stuff- ... otherboard
 
whm1974
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Re: Intel needs to fire thier marketing team.

Fri Jun 30, 2017 11:43 am

Kougar wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
Aren't modern x86 CPUs pretty close to being SoC anyway? Come to think of it, isn't possible use the Ryzen CPUs without having a chipset on the motherboard?


Ye, at least for some chips. See http://techreport.com/news/32139/stuff- ... otherboard

Thanks.
 
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Re: Intel needs to fire thier marketing team.

Fri Jun 30, 2017 12:25 pm

I, for one, can't wait to build my LGA2066 X299 Core i5 system! WHO'S WITH ME?! :P :P :P

As a retro computer collector, years form now I hope to be able to buy the stock of these chips really cheap off of eBay to make a retro time machine. I bet they'll cost $8 like a P4 goes for today :lol:
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Re: Intel needs to fire thier marketing team.

Sat Jul 01, 2017 5:22 pm

wingless wrote:
As a retro computer collector, years form now I hope to be able to buy the stock of these chips really cheap off of eBay to make a retro time machine.

Your i7-2600K does give you certain retro credentials but don't give up the day job.
 
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Re: Intel needs to fire thier marketing team.

Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:55 am

smilingcrow wrote:
wingless wrote:
As a retro computer collector, years form now I hope to be able to buy the stock of these chips really cheap off of eBay to make a retro time machine.

Your i7-2600K does give you certain retro credentials but don't give up the day job.


You need the one in my sig to get your retro card
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smilingcrow
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Re: Intel needs to fire thier marketing team.

Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:28 pm

Starfalcon wrote:
smilingcrow wrote:
wingless wrote:
As a retro computer collector, years form now I hope to be able to buy the stock of these chips really cheap off of eBay to make a retro time machine.

Your i7-2600K does give you certain retro credentials but don't give up the day job.


You need the one in my sig to get your retro card


A Plextor SCSI optical drive, nice! :)
 
whm1974
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Re: Intel needs to fire thier marketing team.

Sun Jul 02, 2017 5:38 pm

smilingcrow wrote:
Starfalcon wrote:
smilingcrow wrote:
Your i7-2600K does give you certain retro credentials but don't give up the day job.


You need the one in my sig to get your retro card


A Plextor SCSI optical drive, nice! :)

A SCSI drive!!! Can they still used with modern computers? When did SCSI ports disappeared?
 
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Re: Intel needs to fire thier marketing team.

Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:21 pm

whm1974 wrote:
A SCSI drive!!! Can they still used with modern computers? When did SCSI ports disappeared?
When nobody made drivers for Windows 8 or later?
 
Krogoth
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Re: Intel needs to fire thier marketing team.

Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:27 pm

SATA and SAS replaced Parallel SCSI.

SATA gave all of the benefits of SCSI to the masses while SAS is pretty much SATA on roids (more devices per controller, longer cable lengths etc.)
Ivy Bridge i5-3570K@4.0Ghz, Gigabyte Z77X-UD3H, 2x4GiB of PC3-12800, Sapphire RX Vega 64, Corsair CX-600 and Fractal Refined R4 (W). Kentsfield Q6600@3Ghz, HD 4850 2x2GiB PC2-6400, Gigabyte EP45-DS4P, OCZ Modstream 700W, and PC-7B.
 
whm1974
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Re: Intel needs to fire thier marketing team.

Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:24 pm

Krogoth wrote:
SATA and SAS replaced Parallel SCSI.

SATA gave all of the benefits of SCSI to the masses while SAS is pretty much SATA on roids (more devices per controller, longer cable lengths etc.)

Thanks, I did thought that SCSI was replaced by SATA and SAS.
 
Starfalcon
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Re: Intel needs to fire thier marketing team.

Sun Jul 02, 2017 9:43 pm

Feel free to check out my parts inventory in the general hardware forum to scratch your retro itch.
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Vhalidictes
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Re: Intel needs to fire thier marketing team.

Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:42 pm

Starfalcon wrote:
Feel free to check out my parts inventory in the general hardware forum to scratch your retro itch.


Starfalcon, I have to ask... is your signature still accurate? Because if it is... what OS are you running on that?
 
Starfalcon
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Re: Intel needs to fire thier marketing team.

Sat Jul 08, 2017 4:39 am

Windows XP, well I should say used to be XP...when I fired it up earlier today, hard drive looks like it went to the drive graveyard in the sky. Considering how old the drive is and had a ton of hours on it, I guess it did not too bad. I used to run this one 24/7 for many many years, but when electricity went up a lot years ago it got relegated to less frequent use. I think all the on and offs finally took their toll.
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