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apkellogg
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Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:08 am

Hello all!

I'm looking to build a new computer for myself and have a quick question. Is the performance difference between 8700 and 8700k worth the price difference? I don't plan on overclocking. My usage is some gaming, light video editing and transcoding, and web/office work. For comparison I will be upgrading from a Core i7-870.

Thank you for any insight!
 
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Re: Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:12 am

apkellogg wrote:
Is the performance difference between 8700 and 8700k worth the price difference?


Not for you.
Last edited by End User on Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:13 am

I'd probably go for the non-k variant and wait for non-Z motherboards if you want to save some cash and have similar performance without an overclock. From reports I've heard though, that could take a few months :-/
 
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Re: Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:29 am

Even if you don't manually overclock the chip, the K variant has benefits with Z370 motherboards. It can turbo higher and the MCE (multi-core enchancement) feature on the motherboard will bump all core clockspeeds for you (to safe levels).

With that being said, let me offer an alternative setup. Go with a Ryzen 1600 or 1600X and save a few dollars. If gaming isn't your primary focus, money will be wasted on the 8700(K) platform. Ryzen is a beast in non-gaming, high performance workloads.

EDIT: I meant to add a B350 motherboard to the Ryzen 1600(X) combo. That's a bang-for-your-buck champion combination.
Last edited by wingless on Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:41 am

apkellogg wrote:
Hello all!

I'm looking to build a new computer for myself and have a quick question. Is the performance difference between 8700 and 8700k worth the price difference? I don't plan on overclocking. My usage is some gaming, light video editing and transcoding, and web/office work. For comparison I will be upgrading from a Core i7-870.

Thank you for any insight!

Side question, I assume you plan to install an add-on GPU, and not rely on the onboard graphics? If so, the Ryzen has been mentioned, have you compared CPU and motherboard prices to see what your best value would be?
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Re: Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:49 am

Another vote for Ryzen. If you're not going to be overclocking or gaming and just want general good performance, a Ryzen-based system will last longer (more cores will matter in the near future). The only major disadvantage is needing to buy some kind of video card.
 
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Re: Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:55 am

ludi wrote:
Side question, I assume you plan to install an add-on GPU, and not rely on the onboard graphics? If so, the Ryzen has been mentioned, have you compared CPU and motherboard prices to see what your best value would be?


You are correct. I will be transferring my GTX 1070 to the new system, so a graphics card is not a near term purchase. I already ordered a motherboard (trying to buy pieces as I can/as available), but I could try to return it.

Guess I could look at AMD, just haven't had on since the Athlon 64. Thank you for the advice!
 
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Re: Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:57 am

wingless wrote:
Go with a Ryzen 1600 or 1600X and save a few dollars. If gaming isn't your primary focus, money will be wasted on the 8700(K) platform. Ryzen is a beast in non-gaming, high performance workloads.


Alternatively, look at an R7 1700 and get 2 more cores. Same motherboard would still be appropriate unless you need multiple graphics cards (which sounds unlikely for the use case you described).
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Re: Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Wed Nov 01, 2017 11:46 am

apkellogg wrote:
Guess I could look at AMD, just haven't had on since the Athlon 64. Thank you for the advice!

I haven't had one since about that time (Opteron 980), too. But if you missed the reviews, there's been some fantastic developments this year:

http://techreport.com/review/31366/amd- ... s-reviewed
http://techreport.com/review/31724/amd- ... d-part-one
http://techreport.com/review/31979/amd- ... d-part-two

These are available now. The only catch is that the new APU models won't be widely available (outside of a few Christmas laptops) until early next year, so anyone wanting to use integrated graphics will be buying Intel for the meantime.
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Re: Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:23 pm

I would get the 8700 for gaming. If you're not going to overclock it's the same 4.6GHz when all cores are loaded and only 100MHz slower in those vanishing rare instances when all the other cores are idle. The extra cost is largely for the unlocked multiplier, which you're not going to use.

If you're more concerned about the non-gaming performance, I'll second a recommendation for a Ryzen 7 1700 - with the caveat that it does depend on what software you're using. Some transcodes are still faster on a 6-core i7-8700 than they are on an 8-core R7 1700 (which is a similar price). Where the Ryzen really shines might be outside your current usage case - and that's software rendering where the huge 16MB cache and 16 threads give it a distinct advantage. It's pretty close to the 8700 but it sips power by contrast. It's odd to think of AMD being more power-efficient than Intel, but when it comes to vastly parallel tasks that use all the threads and lots of data, AMD's Zen architecture with great inter-core bandwidth is just better suited to the job.

As much as I'd like to recommend Ryzen to you, I would expect that you're more gaming focused than people are giving you credit for, because the 1070 is not a light gaming card. I don't think Ryzen will be the right choice at the level you're talking about. The R5 1600 makes a lot of sense against any intel quad core for gaming, but once you get beyond that mid-level budget, Intel still offer the better gaming experience, and the 8700/8700K have enough cores to remain competitive for productivity too.
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Re: Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:31 pm

Depends on how serious you are at video editing and transcoding and how much you're willing to give up in the gaming department. The 6C/6T i5-8600K is a pretty good all-around processor at a nice price.
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Re: Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Wed Nov 01, 2017 12:38 pm

Chrispy_ wrote:
As much as I'd like to recommend Ryzen to you, I would expect that you're more gaming focused than people are giving you credit for, because the 1070 is not a light gaming card. I don't think Ryzen will be the right choice at the level you're talking about. The R5 1600 makes a lot of sense against any intel quad core for gaming, but once you get beyond that mid-level budget, Intel still offer the better gaming experience, and the 8700/8700K have enough cores to remain competitive for productivity too.

Note that he's upgrading from an i7-870 (Lynnfield, 2009). Either an R7 or an 8700 is going to be light years ahead of what he's living with now.
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Re: Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Wed Nov 01, 2017 1:46 pm

ludi wrote:
Note that he's upgrading from an i7-870 (Lynnfield, 2009). Either an R7 or an 8700 is going to be light years ahead of what he's living with now.
Yeah, its going to be nice to upgrade to a motherboard with full SATA 6.0Gb/s for my SSD's along with the PCI 3.0 x4 M.2 drive I'm looking at in addition to upgrading the CPU and going from 8 GB to 32 GB RAM.
 
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Re: Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Wed Nov 01, 2017 4:07 pm

If you're priority is gaming, and will be playing at high refresh rates, then the i7-8700 is what you want.

However, I think, since you don't need integrated video, it is very tempting to save $50-$100 on the CPU/motherboard combo and go with an AMD r7 1700. It will most likely be (depending on what you do specifically) the faster processor for video editing, transcoding and productivity.

The reviews, including the one published here, show the i7-8700 to be significantly faster than the AMD r7 1700 in games And it is when the testing conditions are extreme (though how perceptible this difference is when playing might not be as much as the numbers would seem to indicate). But, for instance, the TechReport review of the i7-8700 tested gaming at 1080p (fairly low resolution) and with a 1080 Ti. With a GTX 1070, the difference will be less perceptible. And if you play at higher resolutions than 1080p, you probably wouldn't be able to notice the difference, while saving a bit of money and getting better performance in most multithreaded tasks with the R7 1700.
 
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Re: Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:48 am

ludi wrote:
Chrispy_ wrote:
As much as I'd like to recommend Ryzen to you, I would expect that you're more gaming focused than people are giving you credit for, because the 1070 is not a light gaming card. I don't think Ryzen will be the right choice at the level you're talking about. The R5 1600 makes a lot of sense against any intel quad core for gaming, but once you get beyond that mid-level budget, Intel still offer the better gaming experience, and the 8700/8700K have enough cores to remain competitive for productivity too.

Note that he's upgrading from an i7-870 (Lynnfield, 2009). Either an R7 or an 8700 is going to be light years ahead of what he's living with now.


True, but whilst the Intel 8700 and AMD 1700 are competitive on compute/transcode and non-gaming tasks, the 8700 is a whopping 35% better at gaming.

Sure, the 1700 will game just fine, but why leave so much performance on the table unnecessarily?

I always root for the underdog, and AMD deserve all the sales they get from Ryzen's excellent performance, but for games that still benefit from high clocks and high IPC, the Intels have a significant advantage still. I hate to say it, but Coffee Lake i7 is good enough to tempt me away from the 1700X I was eyeing up.
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Re: Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:25 am

Chrispy_ wrote:
ludi wrote:
Chrispy_ wrote:
As much as I'd like to recommend Ryzen to you, I would expect that you're more gaming focused than people are giving you credit for, because the 1070 is not a light gaming card. I don't think Ryzen will be the right choice at the level you're talking about. The R5 1600 makes a lot of sense against any intel quad core for gaming, but once you get beyond that mid-level budget, Intel still offer the better gaming experience, and the 8700/8700K have enough cores to remain competitive for productivity too.

Note that he's upgrading from an i7-870 (Lynnfield, 2009). Either an R7 or an 8700 is going to be light years ahead of what he's living with now.


True, but whilst the Intel 8700 and AMD 1700 are competitive on compute/transcode and non-gaming tasks, the 8700 is a whopping 35% better at gaming.

Sure, the 1700 will game just fine, but why leave so much performance on the table unnecessarily?

IMO Techreport bench results were 20% off. At first when i saw the review of 8700K at TR, i had to go and see other reviews and i agree 8700K is fast, but not 35% faster than Ryzen.

Here are some links to reviews from internets.

Techpowerup - https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Int ... 0K/12.html

Guru3D - http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/in ... ew,19.html

Anandtech review of 8700K shows performance margin (gaming) to be not more than 10% at best. - https://www.anandtech.com/show/11859/th ... numbers/13
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Re: Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:17 am

I want to thank everyone for their input. Looks like I will be going with the 8700 non-K, whenever it becomes available. Guess I didn't need the Corsair H100 v2 after all.
 
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Re: Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Thu Nov 02, 2017 8:24 am

Now that *is* interesting.
Has anyone worked out why the TR results were so far from other sites?
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Re: Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Thu Nov 02, 2017 9:45 am

Chrispy_ wrote:
Now that *is* interesting.
Has anyone worked out why the TR results were so far from other sites?

TR: 95% percentile frame times
Everyone else: Average frame rates with no regard for frame times
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Re: Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:39 am

Captain Ned wrote:
Chrispy_ wrote:
Now that *is* interesting.
Has anyone worked out why the TR results were so far from other sites?

TR: 95% percentile frame times
Everyone else: Average frame rates with no regard for frame times


Pretty much this.

Anyone that isn't reporting frametimes is reporting trash.
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Re: Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:51 am

No, it's not that - even if you look at TR's average framerate data, it's more than elsewhere.
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Re: Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:25 am

Chrispy_ wrote:
Now that *is* interesting.
Has anyone worked out why the TR results were so far from other sites?


Different games, different settings. Jeff has said repeatedly "other sites aren't running our test routine."
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Re: Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Thu Nov 02, 2017 12:08 pm

Yeah, even in GPU reviews, the rankings and/or performance gap between each GPU doesn't really change when you flip between 99th% and Average. This is because AMD and Nvidia and game devs have basically fixed the frame time variance problem that Scott discovered way back when. I'd go so far as to say 99th% is a non-issue for most games these days (outliers being poorly coded games, or un-optimized drivers), but it's still good to keep their feet to the fire so things don't go back to what they were.
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Re: Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Thu Nov 02, 2017 3:28 pm

Jigar wrote:
Anandtech review of 8700K shows performance margin (gaming) to be not more than 10% at best. - https://www.anandtech.com/show/11859/th ... numbers/13


... in Civ 6. The discrepancy is larger in other games.
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Re: Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:33 pm

DPete27 wrote:
Yeah, even in GPU reviews, the rankings and/or performance gap between each GPU doesn't really change when you flip between 99th% and Average. This is because AMD and Nvidia and game devs have basically fixed the frame time variance problem that Scott discovered way back when. I'd go so far as to say 99th% is a non-issue for most games these days (outliers being poorly coded games, or un-optimized drivers), but it's still good to keep their feet to the fire so things don't go back to what they were.


It is certainly good for finding discrepancies in GPU performance, but now that AMD is making a solid effort to compete in the CPU space again, timeframe analysis is essential for pointing out differences- which is what we're talking about in this thread.
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Re: Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:58 pm

If you even care about the slightest in resale value and everything else irrelevant, the K hands down.
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Re: Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:53 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
Chrispy_ wrote:
Now that *is* interesting.
Has anyone worked out why the TR results were so far from other sites?

TR: 95% percentile frame times
Everyone else: Average frame rates with no regard for frame times


Actually, Anandtech does have 99th Percentile frame times in their review.
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Re: Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:10 am

Jigar wrote:
Actually, Anandtech does have 99th Percentile frame times in their review.


Now long absent Anand, I don't trust Anandtech as far as I can throw them.
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Re: Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:41 am

Airmantharp wrote:
Jigar wrote:
Actually, Anandtech does have 99th Percentile frame times in their review.


Now long absent Anand, I don't trust Anandtech as far as I can throw them.

You don't like it when the founder gets a job and leaves the site in the hands of others?
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Re: Intel i7-8700 vs 8700k

Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:29 am

End User wrote:
You don't like it when the founder gets a job and leaves the site in the hands of others?


Not when the quality suffers...
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