Personal computing discussed

Moderators: renee, Flying Fox, morphine

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 7
 
End User
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2977
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Upper Canada

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:21 pm

the wrote:
End User wrote:
chuckula wrote:
People tend to forget that event though Apple has done a piss-poor job of updating the Mac lineup, even the Macs that are running pretty outdated Intel x86 parts

Both the MacBook Pro and iMac lineups feature 7th gen Intel CPUs. Apple always lags a bit behind when it comes adding new CPUs into their products. The iMac Pro has a current gen Xeon CPU lineup I believe. The exception is the Mac mini and possibly the MacBook Air.


The Mac Pro and its Ivy Bridge processor released in 2013 says 'hi'. By my math, that is 5 years Apple hasn't touched that system. Even then, the 2013 Mac Pro was a lateral upgrade from the 2010 model as socket count went down, total core count was the same, memory capacity went down, and GPUs were no longer upgradable. It was only remarkably faster if your software could leverage AVX vs. the 2010 model. On the GPU side of things, the upgradable 2010 Mac Pro wins hands down once a newer card is installed.

Some people have been waiting 8 long years for a worthy replacement to call a Mac Pro.

Holy crap! We all know this! Apple released the iMac Pro as a peace offering while we wait for the new Mac Pro! I'm going to post like this from now on!


ARM RULES!
 
just brew it!
Administrator
Posts: 54420
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:32 pm

End User wrote:
chuckula wrote:
Or it could be the equivalent of dropping the headphone jack from the iPhone.

Wireless audio on phones is amazing. Such a sense of freedom.

Spoken like a true zealot. Silly me, I didn't realize that taking a feature away increases users' freedom! :lol:

End User wrote:
chuckula wrote:
Losing the ability to easily run regular Windows natively on Mac hardware means that Apple failed.

10 years ago maybe. Times have changed.

That being said by the time 2020 rolls around I'll probably be able to run Windows 10 for ARM x64 in a VM on my ARM based Mac.

How many Mac users actually care about being able to run Windows natively? Seems to defeat much of the purpose of getting a Mac in the first place.

***

There's really no inherent reason ARM needs to have inferior performance to x86-64. That just has tended to be true historically because ARM's focus has been on power consumption, not raw compute horsepower. Put enough really smart people to work on the problem and I'm sure you could come up with an implementation of ARM that rivals the performance of Intel's best. Whether Apple can actually pull that off remains to be seen, but there's no technical reason it can't happen.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
just brew it!
Administrator
Posts: 54420
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:35 pm

whm1974 wrote:
I'm taking a wait and see approach myself with high performing ARM CPUs.

...and yet, you were all gung ho to buy a RISC-V system sight unseen (until you saw what the hardware costs). Seems like a bit of a double standard?
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
Heiwashin
Maximum Gerbil
Posts: 4815
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 1:21 pm
Location: Denham Springs, LA

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:37 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
End User wrote:
Wireless audio on phones is amazing. Such a sense of freedom.

Those who would give up essential fidelity to gain temporary freedom deserve neither fidelity nor freedom.

Don't mention that you can have an audio port and still have wireless audio as well. He won't believe it anyway.
Looking for Knowledge wrote:
When drunk.....
I want to have sex, but find I am more likely to be shot down than when I am sober.
 
Glorious
Gerbilus Supremus
Posts: 12343
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2002 6:35 pm

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:38 pm

Heiwashin wrote:
Don't mention that you can have an audio port and still have wireless audio as well. He won't believe it anyway.


HERESY
 
just brew it!
Administrator
Posts: 54420
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:45 pm

Out, damned port! Out, I say!
--EU
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
whm1974
Emperor Gerbilius I
Posts: 6349
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:29 am

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:53 pm

just brew it! wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
I'm taking a wait and see approach myself with high performing ARM CPUs.

...and yet, you were all gung ho to buy a RISC-V system sight unseen (until you saw what the hardware costs). Seems like a bit of a double standard?

No I actually wasn't. In its current form, RISC-V is mostly useless for me. :cry:
 
DancinJack
Maximum Gerbil
Posts: 4494
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:21 pm
Location: Kansas

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:54 pm

the wrote:
The Mac Pro and its Ivy Bridge processor released in 2013 says 'hi'. By my math, that is 5 years Apple hasn't touched that system. Even then, the 2013 Mac Pro was a lateral upgrade from the 2010 model as socket count went down, total core count was the same, memory capacity went down, and GPUs were no longer upgradable. It was only remarkably faster if your software could leverage AVX vs. the 2010 model. On the GPU side of things, the upgradable 2010 Mac Pro wins hands down once a newer card is installed.

Some people have been waiting 8 long years for a worthy replacement to call a Mac Pro.

Not that I disagree with anything you've said, people longing for a Mac Pro with a worthy upgrade should just buy an iMac Pro if they can't wait. At least it's pretty up to date now.

edit: it seems I didn't see the new page of posts. I don't care i'm not deleting this post. deal with it chumps.
i7 6700K - Z170 - 16GiB DDR4 - GTX 1080 - 512GB SSD - 256GB SSD - 500GB SSD - 3TB HDD- 27" IPS G-sync - Win10 Pro x64 - Ubuntu/Mint x64 :: 2015 13" rMBP Sierra :: Canon EOS 80D/Sony RX100
 
just brew it!
Administrator
Posts: 54420
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:01 pm

whm1974 wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
I'm taking a wait and see approach myself with high performing ARM CPUs.

...and yet, you were all gung ho to buy a RISC-V system sight unseen (until you saw what the hardware costs). Seems like a bit of a double standard?

No I actually wasn't. In its current form, RISC-V is mostly useless for me. :cry:

whm1974 (in another thread) wrote:
The HiFive Unleashed is finally out, featuring the Freedom U540 SoC by SiFive and has 8GB of ECC DDR4 memory. It is rather pricey however... They showed a demo running Linux playing Quake and running a full GUI. I want one, but I wouldn't know how to setup a single board computer like this.

Anyone also looking at this?

Sounds like you were ready to buy if it had been easier to make a usable PC out of it.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
whm1974
Emperor Gerbilius I
Posts: 6349
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:29 am

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:11 pm

just brew it! wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
...and yet, you were all gung ho to buy a RISC-V system sight unseen (until you saw what the hardware costs). Seems like a bit of a double standard?

No I actually wasn't. In its current form, RISC-V is mostly useless for me. :cry:

whm1974 (in another thread) wrote:
The HiFive Unleashed is finally out, featuring the Freedom U540 SoC by SiFive and has 8GB of ECC DDR4 memory. It is rather pricey however... They showed a demo running Linux playing Quake and running a full GUI. I want one, but I wouldn't know how to setup a single board computer like this.

Anyone also looking at this?

Sounds like you were ready to buy if it had been easier to make a usable PC out of it.

Not for $1200 just for the board alone.
 
End User
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2977
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Upper Canada

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:37 pm

just brew it! wrote:
How many Mac users actually care about being able to run Windows natively? Seems to defeat much of the purpose of getting a Mac in the first place.

Fusion and Parallels exist for some strange reason. I can't for the life of me think of why. Oh wait, there is a market for running Windows in a VM on the Mac!

When I ordered my work 2014 15" MacBook Pro back in the day, I bought it because I knew I needed the extra cores for running Windows under a VM on a daily basis. I now run a Windows VM once in a blue moon. The times are a changing.

I've been preparing for Apples switch over to ARM. Any requirement I have for Windows can now be met by my new personal T480 (it has an ethernet port!).
 
the
Gerbil Elite
Posts: 941
Joined: Tue Jun 29, 2010 2:26 am

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:39 pm

End User wrote:
the wrote:
End User wrote:
Both the MacBook Pro and iMac lineups feature 7th gen Intel CPUs. Apple always lags a bit behind when it comes adding new CPUs into their products. The iMac Pro has a current gen Xeon CPU lineup I believe. The exception is the Mac mini and possibly the MacBook Air.


The Mac Pro and its Ivy Bridge processor released in 2013 says 'hi'. By my math, that is 5 years Apple hasn't touched that system. Even then, the 2013 Mac Pro was a lateral upgrade from the 2010 model as socket count went down, total core count was the same, memory capacity went down, and GPUs were no longer upgradable. It was only remarkably faster if your software could leverage AVX vs. the 2010 model. On the GPU side of things, the upgradable 2010 Mac Pro wins hands down once a newer card is installed.

Some people have been waiting 8 long years for a worthy replacement to call a Mac Pro.

Holy crap! We all know this! Apple released the iMac Pro as a peace offering while we wait for the new Mac Pro! I'm going to post like this from now on!


LET THE SSK FLOW THROUGH YOU!
Dual Opteron 6376, 96 GB DDR3, Asus KGPE-D16, GTX 970
Mac Pro Dual Xeon E5645, 48 GB DDR3, GTX 770
Core i7 3930K@4.2 Ghz, 32 GB DDR3, GA-X79-UP5-Wifi
Core i7 2600K@4.4 Ghz, 16 GB DDR3, GTX 970, GA-X68XP-UD4
 
End User
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2977
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Upper Canada

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:43 pm

just brew it! wrote:
End User wrote:
chuckula wrote:
Or it could be the equivalent of dropping the headphone jack from the iPhone.

Wireless audio on phones is amazing. Such a sense of freedom.

Spoken like a true zealot. Silly me, I didn't realize that taking a feature away increases users' freedom! :lol:

I hate hate hate hate hate hate wires when I am moving around. My Sony MDR-1000Xs sound fantastic. I don't need wires to get great audio.

I'm not going to lament the loss of a port I don't use.
 
End User
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2977
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Upper Canada

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Mon Apr 02, 2018 7:45 pm

the wrote:
LET THE SSK FLOW THROUGH YOU!

Heavens no. Yuck. I've never come across such a misinformed so-and-so in my entire life.
 
Redocbew
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2488
Joined: Sat Mar 15, 2014 11:44 am

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:04 pm

I think I'd rather have the SSK flowing through me.

Not to make it weird or anything.
Do not meddle in the affairs of archers, for they are subtle and you won't hear them coming.
 
derFunkenstein
Gerbil God
Posts: 25404
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 9:13 pm
Location: Comin' to you directly from the Mothership

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:11 pm

****, you guys, you're in danger of making text legible on my phone at font sizes that large.

just brew it! wrote:
End User wrote:
chuckula wrote:
Or it could be the equivalent of dropping the headphone jack from the iPhone.

Wireless audio on phones is amazing. Such a sense of freedom.

Spoken like a true zealot. Silly me, I didn't realize that taking a feature away increases users' freedom! :lol:

Silly you, indeed - you know that phones can't have Bluetooth and headphone jacks at the same time! What are you thinking???

BTW, Being able to run Windows natively was about 163rd on my list of reasons to buy a Mac. Running it in a VM was higher up the list quite a bit. :lol:
I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.
Twittering away the day at @TVsBen
 
DancinJack
Maximum Gerbil
Posts: 4494
Joined: Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:21 pm
Location: Kansas

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:51 pm

Running Windows natively on a Mac has MAYBE crossed my mind mmmmaaayyyybee twice in the ~25 years I have been using Macs.
i7 6700K - Z170 - 16GiB DDR4 - GTX 1080 - 512GB SSD - 256GB SSD - 500GB SSD - 3TB HDD- 27" IPS G-sync - Win10 Pro x64 - Ubuntu/Mint x64 :: 2015 13" rMBP Sierra :: Canon EOS 80D/Sony RX100
 
PatrThom
Gerbil In Training
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:26 pm

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:51 pm

End User wrote:
Fusion and Parallels exist for some strange reason. I can't for the life of me think of why. Oh wait, there is a market for running Windows in a VM on the Mac!

Well, not JUST Windows...


And Apple has a habit of changing processors every dozen years or so. 68k ran from 1984-1994, PPC from 1994-2006. It's been x86 from 2006 on, maybe Apple is just finally getting that 12yr itch again.
Last edited by PatrThom on Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
chuckula
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Topic Author
Posts: 2109
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:18 pm
Location: Probably where I don't belong.

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:00 pm

End User wrote:
Fusion and Parallels exist for some strange reason. I can't for the life of me think of why. Oh wait, there is a market for running Windows in a VM on the Mac!



Yes, thanks to x86 having world-class virtualization support that's leagues ahead of any ARM device out there Windows on an x86 Mac runs great in a VM.

Which has jack to do with Windows running "like a dumpster fire" -- to use your own disingenuous propaganda -- when emulated by an ARM core that's trying to emulate old x86 Mac parts that are already on the market today.
4770K @ 4.7 GHz; 32GB DDR3-2133; Officially RX-560... that's right AMD you shills!; 512GB 840 Pro (2x); Fractal Define XL-R2; NZXT Kraken-X60
--Many thanks to the TR Forum for advice in getting it built.
 
ptsant
Gerbil XP
Posts: 397
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:45 pm

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:19 am

If/when this happens, I hope someone will do some real benchmarks (like compiling stuff, scientific computing) instead of the ridiculous Geekbench joke that makes an iPhone look faster than a 28-core Xeon.

Apple has some very competent engineers, but Intel/AMD are not idiots. The only way to win, in my opinion, is through very careful optimization of the software stack (OS, apps). I don't think the CPU is likely to be faster in raw power, but this is no longer very important to the Apple crowd.
Image
 
whm1974
Emperor Gerbilius I
Posts: 6349
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:29 am

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Tue Apr 03, 2018 5:23 am

ptsant wrote:
If/when this happens, I hope someone will do some real benchmarks (like compiling stuff, scientific computing) instead of the ridiculous Geekbench joke that makes an iPhone look faster than a 28-core Xeon.

Apple has some very competent engineers, but Intel/AMD are not idiots. The only way to win, in my opinion, is through very careful optimization of the software stack (OS, apps). I don't think the CPU is likely to be faster in raw power, but this is no longer very important to the Apple crowd.

I'm well aware that Apple doesn't want me as customer, but however I have long thought that users should buy as much hardware as their budget allows for. I also think that more then you need is better then not enough.
 
End User
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2977
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Upper Canada

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:16 am

chuckula wrote:
End User wrote:
Fusion and Parallels exist for some strange reason. I can't for the life of me think of why. Oh wait, there is a market for running Windows in a VM on the Mac!



Yes, thanks to x86 having world-class virtualization support that's leagues ahead of any ARM device out there Windows on an x86 Mac runs great in a VM.

I think you missed the part where I said that running Windows in VM on a Mac has dwindled to next to 0 for me. Running Windows 10 ARM x64 in a VM on an ARM based Mac was me poking people with a stick.

chuckula wrote:
Which has jack to do with Windows running "like a dumpster fire"

I agree. The dumpster fire part was referring to Windows 10 on ARM and that was in an entirely different post.

chuckula wrote:
to use your own disingenuous propaganda

The reality is that Windows 10 on ARM is a sh*tshow. My criticism is valid. The facts speak for themselves. Any product that has performance problems with OS updates should be hanged, drawn and quartered.
 
Usacomp2k3
Gerbil God
Posts: 23043
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 4:53 pm
Location: Orlando, FL
Contact:

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:20 am

ptsant wrote:
The only way to win, in my opinion, is through very careful optimization of the software stack (OS, apps). I don't think the CPU is likely to be faster in raw power, but this is no longer very important to the Apple crowd.

We reached "good enough" computer for most tasks, especially media consumption back in the Haswell era. As long as a A12 chip (or whatever they use) can match that, then I don't know that the user would even notice. The exception would the occasional demanding app like Final Cut. Moving to a common CPU with iOS would let them give users the option of using the full iOS App Store natively too.
 
End User
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2977
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Upper Canada

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:21 am

ptsant wrote:
instead of the ridiculous Geekbench joke that makes an iPhone look faster than a 28-core Xeon.

Link to that result.
 
End User
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2977
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Upper Canada

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:24 am

ptsant wrote:
I don't think the CPU is likely to be faster in raw power

What a silly thing to say.

ptsant wrote:
but this is no longer very important to the Apple crowd.

Sure it is.
 
End User
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2977
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Upper Canada

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:26 am

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
We reached "good enough" computer for most tasks, especially media consumption back in the Haswell era.

I was thinking Core 2 Duo.
 
Usacomp2k3
Gerbil God
Posts: 23043
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 4:53 pm
Location: Orlando, FL
Contact:

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Tue Apr 03, 2018 6:29 am

End User wrote:
Usacomp2k3 wrote:
We reached "good enough" computer for most tasks, especially media consumption back in the Haswell era.

I was thinking Core 2 Duo.

The i5-2500K was a big step over the dual core C2D's. Now the C2Q like the Q6600? Maybe.
 
End User
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2977
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Upper Canada

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Tue Apr 03, 2018 10:23 am

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
End User wrote:
Usacomp2k3 wrote:
We reached "good enough" computer for most tasks, especially media consumption back in the Haswell era.

I was thinking Core 2 Duo.

The i5-2500K was a big step over the dual core C2D's. Now the C2Q like the Q6600? Maybe.

I had a Q6600 and I loved it but that is not what I am referring to.

My first MacBook Pro was a late 2006 with a Core 2 Duo. That was a really nice CPU and easily covered the day to day stuff in addition to providing smooth 1080p playback. I was very happy with that CPU.
 
cphite
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1102
Joined: Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:28 am

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:54 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
End User wrote:
Wireless audio on phones is amazing. Such a sense of freedom.

Those who would give up essential fidelity to gain temporary freedom deserve neither fidelity nor freedom.


+10
 
End User
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2977
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Upper Canada

Re: Apple Dumps Intel: CONFIRMED!

Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:55 pm

cphite wrote:
Captain Ned wrote:
End User wrote:
Wireless audio on phones is amazing. Such a sense of freedom.

Those who would give up essential fidelity to gain temporary freedom deserve neither fidelity nor freedom.


+10

-11
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 7

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests
GZIP: On