Personal computing discussed
Moderators: renee, Flying Fox, morphine
derFunkenstein wrote:Much as I loathe the price (and have done so publicly) I'm really tempted by a the iPhone XS Max because I'm old and it's got the biggest screen on the market. If it'll help me dodge bifocals for another year or so, that's really all that's important to me right now.
DancinJack wrote:Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous. Can't wait to get an X s (maybe MAX, haven't decided yet but leaning the baby one).
edit: I just want to say, the ridiculous level of optimization that Apple does by virtue of controlling the whole stack is insane. Just look at the screen color and power efficiency! Quite impressive. (obviously I don't mean Apple makes the screen, but they control the criteria so closely and require what they require (and obviously have the power to do so) to make a really incredible product sometimes)
edit2: I will say something "negative." The camera still needs work. The SmartHDR feature is still a ways behind Google in a lot of areas, foremost being detail. Secondly, everyone go download Halide.
blastdoor wrote:Yeah, it is weird in some ways that the A12 is such a beast but Apple lags in computational photography.
I find these days that photography is the most demanding thing I do with my phone and the primary reason to upgrade (other than wear and tear). It's not that I'm really big into photography, it's just I want to take the best pictures I can with the least effort.
Now more than ever, Apple's CPU efforts seem wasted on a phone.
techguy wrote:The XS Max is the best phone I've ever used. Screen is gorgeous, performance is outstanding - everything seems to happen instantaneously. You know your hardware is fast when you never even have to think about the amount of time it takes to perform any action you can think of.
DancinJack wrote:derFunkenstein wrote:Much as I loathe the price (and have done so publicly) I'm really tempted by a the iPhone XS Max because I'm old and it's got the biggest screen on the market. If it'll help me dodge bifocals for another year or so, that's really all that's important to me right now.
lol this is the oddest reasoning for wanting the Max I have seen, by a fair bit. The .1 of an inch is really gonna give you an advantage over the Note9 I'm sure! To be fair, I don't mean "i can't see so i want a big screen" is odd, just the bifocals deferment part. Plus the fact that you can scale DPI on pretty much every decent phone these days and plenty of phones have similarly sized screens.
Just get bifocals dude.
derFunkenstein wrote:I was hoping the would indicate I wasn't serious. But I am seriously thinking about a big-screened phone. I kind of regret going with the smaller Pixel, but the Pixel 2 display and its associated issues was just a non-starter. I do use a slightly larger-than-default font and it's kind of painful how much text wraps and how little is on the screen. Part of it, no doubt, is because I stepped down in size from the 6S Plus.
derFunkenstein wrote:I wasn't TOTALLY serious, because I don't need bifocals, but tiny print does bug me more than it used to. Seems like on my MBP every text editor I use (sans browsers or Word) needs to default bumped a step or two when the display is set to the default "like 1680x1050" setting. I don't change display scaling because I don't need jumbo stoplight buttons, window titles, or menus. I just need 14-point font in Brackets (where I do all my stupid, stupid Cordova projects) instead of 12.
On the iPhone 6s Plus I liked the "scaled" version of the interface with bigger, more tightly-spaced icons on the home screen and slightly bigger text all around, which is basically what I have on the Pixel 2, too. I've ALWAYS used bigger fonts when possible on my phones, though, so it's not aging or bifocals.
That's like, way off topic, though. The A12 looks damn fast for a phone CPU. I look forward to the day where I get to drop the qualifiers, though I imagine we're starting to get close to a point where Apple's CPU optimizations are no longer bigger double-digit gains and TSMC will hit the same transistor-density wall Intel seems to have. It's disappointing that Anandtech went with the hyperbole of "reaching desktop performance levels" without actually including a desktop CPU, but whatever. I mean, sure, it's "desktop" performance but it's not catching the i7-6700K, let alone current-gen CPUs with more power draw, more cores, more hertz, etc: https://www.spec.org/cpu2006/results/re ... -37700.pdf
Some of those scores are awfully close, though.
derFunkenstein wrote:but you would on the mythical ARM-based MBP.
techguy wrote:I didn't even look at the benchmarks until now. The fact that a single-digit TDP, 2.5GHz CPU designed for smartphones is outperforming a 165W, $8700, 28-core, up to 3.8GHz Xeon in some of these single-threaded workloads is just astonishing. I've said this for a long time now, Apple has the best CPU design team in the industry. When they purchased P.A. Semi all those years ago I predicted this would happen.
This paves the road for Apple-powered Macs. If they even care to bother. But just imagine the performance of an 8-core ~4GHz desktop CPU with this level of IPC. If there was enough software support for such a product, it would be a day one purchase for me.
Captain Ned wrote:But, but, but ARM is magic!!!!
[/sarc]
DancinJack wrote:Apple very well may be able to make a great desktop CPU, but until they do, all the "desktop performance!" and "outperforming a Xeon" crap is just hyperbole without anything real to back it up (unless you count a single benchmark with zero control points). Please stop doing this.
MOSFET wrote:I was merrily reading along, and up pops the desktop comparison. At home, next to my desktop PC, I have a NUC7i7BNH, the Kaby Lake -U highest end NUC, with Iris Plus and thus the eDRAM (extended testing we’ll call it). 3.5 GHz, 3.9 all core boost, 4.0 turbo. 2C/4T. In the garage, I have an inherited i7-920 Bloomfield 2.67 overclocked to 3.8 GHz. When Folding with CPU (not something I normally do) the NUC running 2 threads of F@H gets about 20,000 ppd. The Bloomfield gets the same but with 6 threads. One has a 240mm AIO CLC and one has a tiny but screaming fan. The amount of power drawn and the amount of cooling needed has gone down in 8 years, dramatically, but these things cannot operate passively. Apple’s phone CPU can, so there is just no way it’s reaching acceptable levels of desktop performance. That NUC is surprisingly potent for a 28W SOC, but I wouldn’t want to go much less “desktop” than that. Phone CPUs , while amazing, aren’t going to be replacing desktop/ultra book CPUs (yet). If they were suitable, I don’t think we would even have x86 NUCs. Soon? Maybe. Not yet though. Also need the OSes to run them.
End User wrote:I have no doubt that Apple has macOS running on A series silicon in their labs. The transition to ARM will take less than one year.
Usacomp2k3 wrote:End User wrote:I have no doubt that Apple has macOS running on A series silicon in their labs. The transition to ARM will take less than one year.
The timing will be dictated by how long it takes the software vendors to get on-board. I'm looking at Adobe, etc.
DancinJack wrote:techguy wrote:I didn't even look at the benchmarks until now. The fact that a single-digit TDP, 2.5GHz CPU designed for smartphones is outperforming a 165W, $8700, 28-core, up to 3.8GHz Xeon in some of these single-threaded workloads is just astonishing. I've said this for a long time now, Apple has the best CPU design team in the industry. When they purchased P.A. Semi all those years ago I predicted this would happen.
This paves the road for Apple-powered Macs. If they even care to bother. But just imagine the performance of an 8-core ~4GHz desktop CPU with this level of IPC. If there was enough software support for such a product, it would be a day one purchase for me.
Ugh. No. You can't just compare those two apples to apples.
I have no objections in that Apple CPUs are really great, and their team is doing an incredible job. But you can't just say the A12 is outperforming a 28 core Xeon with just one benchmark, performed on different a different OS, different RAM, different everything!
Apple very well may be able to make a great desktop CPU, but until they do, all the "desktop performance!" and "outperforming a Xeon" crap is just hyperbole without anything real to back it up (unless you count a single benchmark with zero control points). Please stop doing this.
End User wrote:And yet, the 7nm A12, handily beats the 7-7567U in Geekbench.
MOSFET wrote:End User wrote:And yet, the 7nm A12, handily beats the 7-7567U in Geekbench.
Yeah, cross-architecture and cross-OS Geekbench. DancinJack, have at it. Oh never mind, it’s EU. Save your words.