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dragontamer5788
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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:43 pm

NTMBK wrote:
I expected an IGP in the northbridge, kind of surprising they didn't add one. A 3CU GPU to run displays, without wasting a chiplet "socket" on a GPU.


Hmm, depends on their Navi plans probably. If Navi is a chiplet, it makes more sense for a tiny 3CU chiplet to be glue'd onto the whole package, rather than building it out at 14nm.

There's clearly room on the package for one more die. What AMD's plans for the future are... well... I guess we'll have to wait for the next convention or something.
 
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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:50 pm

of course everyone new that, except for the people that believed those fake 16 core pics you out there to troll the fanbois with ;)
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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Wed Jan 09, 2019 5:50 pm

anotherengineer wrote:
of course everyone new that, except for the people that believed those fake 16 core pics you out there to troll the fanbois with ;)

I'll be shocked if we don't see a 16 core part before the next revision. I expected to see 12 cores talked about today though...
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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:33 pm

i dont know what everyone is excited about. zen2 is a big disappointment.

2700x scores 1827 on CB multi-thread. that makes zen2 equivalent (and 9900k) about 13.4% better. not too shabby. however assume single thread is also scaled up by 13.4%, its CB single-thread score is still 5% behind that of 9900k

even worse, i'd say deadly, is the release date. intel's 10nm icelake is coming soon after. even if it is a broken 10nm, it will still bring faster single core perf and lower power. amd's competitive position will not improve much. i think amd will introduce the second chiplet around that time to make up for the difference.

https://techreport.com/review/34192/int ... reviewed/5
 
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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:17 pm

13% better with 30% less power...what makes you think Intel's first 10 NM chips will do better than that?
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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:26 pm

in multi thread, 9900k is already equal. can icelake be 30% more efficient at same performance? maybe
in single thread 9900k is still 5% better. can icelake be 30% more efficient at same performance? yes
 
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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Wed Jan 09, 2019 11:27 pm

I'll believe it when I see real numbers from both.
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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:23 am

LocalCitizen wrote:
in multi thread, 9900k is already equal. can icelake be 30% more efficient at same performance? maybe
in single thread 9900k is still 5% better. can icelake be 30% more efficient at same performance? yes


30% more efficient is a huge difference. For comparison, Haswell --> Broadwell (14nm) was something like 10% and Broadwell was a 65W chip. Skylake was only marginally more efficient than Haswell. See below:
https://techreport.com/review/28751/int ... reviewed/5

If they can get 10% more efficiency out of the first 10nm iteration I would be quite happy.
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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:24 am

dragontamer5788 wrote:
NTMBK wrote:
I expected an IGP in the northbridge, kind of surprising they didn't add one. A 3CU GPU to run displays, without wasting a chiplet "socket" on a GPU.


Hmm, depends on their Navi plans probably. If Navi is a chiplet, it makes more sense for a tiny 3CU chiplet to be glue'd onto the whole package, rather than building it out at 14nm.

There's clearly room on the package for one more die. What AMD's plans for the future are... well... I guess we'll have to wait for the next convention or something.


Yes, the obvious extensions are a 16c version and a 8c+navi version.
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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:11 am

The 2nd die is basically confirmed now that people are taking pictures of the thing up close: https://i.imgur.com/T0d88Ed.png

You can clearly see the interposer traces for the 2nd die.
 
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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:18 am

dragontamer5788 wrote:
The 2nd die is basically confirmed now that people are taking pictures of the thing up close: https://i.imgur.com/T0d88Ed.png

You can clearly see the interposer traces for the 2nd die.


Given that AMD was hosting this keynote to make the biggest splash possible, it's pretty clear that they aren't planning a 16 core AM4 part anytime soon or else they could trivially have slapped another chiplet in there. It's clearly meant for a graphics chiplet that's not as far along as the CPU cores.
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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:28 am

I see AMD only announcing 8 core Ryzen 3 chips is that they don't want to formally play their hand preemptively. They seemingly can take on the i9 9900K but the real challenger will be Ice Lake. Their launch windows look to be close with June being floated around for Ryzen 3 from various manufacturers at CES with Ice Lake arriving a few months later.

Actually this does seem that Ryzen 3 was pushed back a bit. I was optimistically expecting parts to formally be announced in March with product arriving on store shelves in April. Though that
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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:39 am

Since AMD says "middle of 2019" and not "Q2 2019" I have to think these things won't be launched until July. We might get more information about them at Computex, but I wouldn't expect them until the second half.
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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:02 pm

chuckula wrote:
Given that AMD was hosting this keynote to make the biggest splash possible, it's pretty clear that they aren't planning a 16 core AM4 part anytime soon or else they could trivially have slapped another chiplet in there. It's clearly meant for a graphics chiplet that's not as far along as the CPU cores.

Given that the IO between them is standardized, it could be (and likely will be) both.
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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:06 pm

Waco wrote:
chuckula wrote:
Given that AMD was hosting this keynote to make the biggest splash possible, it's pretty clear that they aren't planning a 16 core AM4 part anytime soon or else they could trivially have slapped another chiplet in there. It's clearly meant for a graphics chiplet that's not as far along as the CPU cores.

Given that the IO between them is standardized, it could be (and likely will be) both.

Graphics chiplet would probably also need some direct connections to the outside of the package though, to get the video signals out.
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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:15 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Waco wrote:
chuckula wrote:
Given that AMD was hosting this keynote to make the biggest splash possible, it's pretty clear that they aren't planning a 16 core AM4 part anytime soon or else they could trivially have slapped another chiplet in there. It's clearly meant for a graphics chiplet that's not as far along as the CPU cores.

Given that the IO between them is standardized, it could be (and likely will be) both.

Graphics chiplet would probably also need some direct connections to the outside of the package though, to get the video signals out.


Socket AM4 is designed to handle IGPs already so that shouldn't be much of a problem. You wouldn't see graphics on a Threadripper socket though since there's no pins to provide video output.
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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:33 pm

chuckula wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
Waco wrote:
Given that the IO between them is standardized, it could be (and likely will be) both.

Graphics chiplet would probably also need some direct connections to the outside of the package though, to get the video signals out.

Socket AM4 is designed to handle IGPs already so that shouldn't be much of a problem.

Sure. But it does mean they would need a common pad layout for the chiplet that works for both.
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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:38 pm

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13852/am ... -ryzen2000

AMD confirms no GPU chiplet for new Ryzen.
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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:48 pm

Oh look, no graphics chiplet... guess that means a second CPU chiplet (and hence 16 cores) is confirmed.
 
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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:48 pm

DancinJack wrote:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13852/amd-no-chiplet-apu-variant-on-matisse-cpu-tdp-range-same-as-ryzen2000

AMD confirms no GPU chiplet for new Ryzen.


WTF??

I'm sure the fanboys are going to be ecstatic that in 2020 or so there'll be a 16 core desktop part that still can't do AVX-512 and that'll be "enahnced" with dual channel RAM*.

But AMD's commercial interests would be vastly better served with an 8 core CPU that can actually boot to a desktop without requiring a discrete GPU.

Insult the 9900K all you want, but throwing moar coar chiplets in won't do the job.

* "Dual channel RAM is FINE for 16 cores!!" Yeah sure it is. So you don't mind if TR uses a single channel of RAM for all of its 8 core RyZen 2 tests right? I mean 16:2 is equal to 8:1 and hell, that miracle I/O chip probably means you don't even need primitive RAM anymore anyway!!
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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:50 pm

NTMBK wrote:
Oh look, no graphics chiplet... guess that means a second CPU chiplet (and hence 16 cores) is confirmed.


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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:04 pm

DancinJack wrote:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13852/amd-no-chiplet-apu-variant-on-matisse-cpu-tdp-range-same-as-ryzen2000

AMD confirms no GPU chiplet for new Ryzen.

Only sort of:
AMD stated that, at this time, there will be no version of the current Matisse chiplet layout where one of those chiplets will be graphics.

At this time there isn't one where the 2nd spot is occupied by a CPU die either, so this is basically a meaningless statement.
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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:08 pm

just brew it! wrote:
DancinJack wrote:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/13852/amd-no-chiplet-apu-variant-on-matisse-cpu-tdp-range-same-as-ryzen2000

AMD confirms no GPU chiplet for new Ryzen.

Only sort of:
AMD stated that, at this time, there will be no version of the current Matisse chiplet layout where one of those chiplets will be graphics.

At this time there isn't one where the 2nd spot is occupied by a CPU die either, so this is basically a meaningless statement.


The article also said that AMD expressly wanted future Zen 2 APUs to focus on mobile. AM4 is not a mobile platform and a mobile Zen 2 APU isn't an AM4 part. I'd take AMD at their word unless they're lying for some reason.
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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:10 pm

just brew it! wrote:
At this time there isn't one where the 2nd spot is occupied by a CPU die either, so this is basically a meaningless statement.

I mean, that's not true. C'mon dude. They flat out said that on this particular revision, Matisse, there will be no IGP. Yeah there might be one in the future. There may be a 16C variant in the future too, but AMD didn't say anything about either of those.
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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:24 pm

NTMBK wrote:
Oh look, no graphics chiplet... guess that means a second CPU chiplet (and hence 16 cores) is confirmed.

This isn't true either? The only things AMD confirmed were Matisse wouldn't have an IGP and that there will be Zen2 designs later with an IGP. That is it.
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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:25 pm

DancinJack wrote:
NTMBK wrote:
Oh look, no graphics chiplet... guess that means a second CPU chiplet (and hence 16 cores) is confirmed.

This isn't true either? The only things AMD confirmed were Matisse wouldn't have an IGP and that there will be Zen2 designs later with an IGP. That is it.


Sure, and they just left a chiplet sized socket spare for ****s and giggles. Come on.
 
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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:28 pm

chuckula wrote:
I'm sure the fanboys are going to be ecstatic that in 2020 or so there'll be a 16 core desktop part that still can't do AVX-512 and that'll be "enahnced" with dual channel RAM*.


Who gives a f**k what the fanbois think. Especially what they think of AVX512 - which I still think is a dubious design compromise!

A 16C part that can run many of the applications I'm interested in extremely well will do me nicely.

If I have to go back into the world of CFD - I'll get a Threadripper - or EPYC.


chuckula wrote:
But AMD's commercial interests would be vastly better served with an 8 core CPU that can actually boot to a desktop without requiring a discrete GPU.


Agreed in that there is a big market for an 8C APU. It'd become the "power" desktop of choice for ignorant corporations everywhere [as opposed to workstations].

chuckula wrote:
Insult the 9900K all you want, but throwing moar coar chiplets in won't do the job.


What job? Depends on what the memory requirements of the job are.... Rendering? It'd do that job very nicely.
 
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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:43 pm

NTMBK wrote:
DancinJack wrote:
NTMBK wrote:
Oh look, no graphics chiplet... guess that means a second CPU chiplet (and hence 16 cores) is confirmed.

This isn't true either? The only things AMD confirmed were Matisse wouldn't have an IGP and that there will be Zen2 designs later with an IGP. That is it.


Sure, and they just left a chiplet sized socket spare for ****s and giggles. Come on.

You said, let me check the notes, "confirmed." I guess you have inside sources, or read the words different than everyone else?
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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Fri Jan 11, 2019 4:43 pm

I agree that for many tasks, more cores is great and dual channel, fast memory won't be that much of a bottleneck. Heck the server I bought for calculation work has a small memory set but scales fairly linearly with cores (current on a dual 16c32t)
 
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Re: RyZen 2 Desktop CONFIRMED... to not have 16 cores

Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:35 pm

DancinJack wrote:
NTMBK wrote:
DancinJack wrote:
This isn't true either? The only things AMD confirmed were Matisse wouldn't have an IGP and that there will be Zen2 designs later with an IGP. That is it.


Sure, and they just left a chiplet sized socket spare for ****s and giggles. Come on.

You said, let me check the notes, "confirmed." I guess you have inside sources, or read the words different than everyone else?


Apparently the same AMD executives that said there's no graphics coming to Matisse also answered any questions about moar coars with another question along the line of "Why wouldn't we put something there wink wink nudge nudge!"

Here's a video recreation.
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