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stfan
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Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:15 pm

Objective: to get twice the speed out of Handbrake as cheaply as possible. But I don't know how these 2 systems would compare.

OLD: Intel Q8400 4GB ram , XP (4-core prehistoric current system)
NEW: Intel Pentium G5400 4GB-8GB ram (2-core future system?)

Zero interest in modern games, SSDs, etc. Just encoding x264 mp4s in Handbrake at double my current speeds.

Is this a decent upgrade or downgrade? Your thoughts? Alternative budget choices?
 
mikewinddale
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Re: Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:25 pm

My suspicion is that you'll want at least as many cores. Plus, thanks to the Ryzen revolution, cores are cheap. Look at a cheap 4 core Ryzen.

A Pentium G5400 is $80 on Newegg. A quad core Ryzen 3 2200G is $95. Plus you get Integrated Vega graphics with that.
 
mikewinddale
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Re: Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:41 pm

Let's look at some benchmarks. I'll use GeekBench4 since that's multithreaded and it's easy to find scores.

The Intel Q4400 gets around 5000 in GeekBench4 Multi-Core. See here.

The Pentium G5400 gets around 7,000 to 8,000, here. So yes, that's an upgrade.

I couldn't find a Ryzen 3 2200 on GeekBench 4, but the 1200 (which is similar, except with less precise automatic overclocking - i.e. XFR vs XFR2) gets about 9,000 to 13,000 (I don't know why the variance is so wide). See here.

So the Pentium G5400 is a good upgrade, but the Ryzen 3 2200G is an even better upgrade.

And here's an article comparing the Pentium G5400 to the Ryzen 3 2200G in a variety of benchmarks. The Ryzen kills it.
 
The Egg
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Re: Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:08 pm

Where do you live? If you’re anywhere near a Microcenter, they have refurbished Sandy and Ivy Bridge quad-core i5’s with 8GB in the $170-190 range. Despite being substantially older, I would expect them to still be faster than a dual-core at encoding.
 
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Re: Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:16 pm

Check old eBay refurbs. You can get a lot of CPU for the money in an old workstation. Your need to ask other gerbils about what models are the best value, though. I'm out of that loop.
 
stfan
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Re: Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Thu Mar 28, 2019 9:25 pm

I live in Melbourne, Australia. I want to buy new.

Ryzen 2200G go for AUD $145 here, versus $107 for the Pentium. But I am happy to spend the little extra if it means getting about twice the performance, but that is about the upper limit for what I want to spend on a CPU.

Thanks for the responses. I will investigate Ryzen 3 2200G
 
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Re: Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Fri Mar 29, 2019 12:05 am

Ryzen would be great for your usecase, zero doubt about it.
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f0d
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Re: Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:39 am

if you can get an x58 cheap enough the 6 core xeons are crazy cheap at the moment
i picked up an x58 mobo i7 920 and 6gb ram recently for $60au - admittedly thats mega cheap but if you keep your eye out bargains are around
you can get a 6core12thread xeon for under $30 depending on what model you want
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Intel-Xeon-X5660-SLBV6-2-8GHz-12-MB-LGA-1366-Six-Core-CPU-Processor/352559921748?epid=82812956&hash=item5216357a54:g:E1IAAOSwEppcLrdy&frcectupt=true
been snapping up any cheap x58s i see they make great budget systems with a xeon

overclocked compared to a few modern systems
https://youtu.be/yBYBMQrK7XE
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Re: Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Fri Mar 29, 2019 6:33 am

Scour ebay for Ryzen 5 1600 chips too. There's one on there now at AU$100 and I'd expect it to sell for about $150.

I know you said you want new but I'd be more than comfortable running new DDR4 and a new motherboard with an older chip, Ryzens (unlike Intel Haswell) either work or they're totally dead.
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Re: Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Fri Mar 29, 2019 7:35 am

Would you be using Quick Sync on that Pentium?
 
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Re: Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:04 am

drfish wrote:
Would you be using Quick Sync on that Pentium?


I disable Quicksync in Handbrake and I suspect that most other people do too, unless they're desperate for a fast x264 conversion and have no cares about the quality or size of that file.

The resulting Quicksync-encoded movie is of distractingly-inferior image quality and on top of that the file sizes are anything up to 150% larger than alternative x264 encodes. If I'm not in a hurry I'll x265 anyway because that is vastly superior for Youtube uploads and a far more space-efficient codec than x264.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/7007/int ... spective/8

When QS is fast, it's awful. When QS is slow, it's still inferior. I guess it's of value only to Core-m Y-series and very low-power devices that simply don't have the CPU performance to do software encodes. On a desktop it's an unfortunate compromise at best.
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drfish
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Re: Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:15 pm

Eh, I was happy enough with it the last time I used it. It's at least worth testing if you have it.
 
Pagey
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Re: Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:37 pm

 
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Re: Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:12 pm

Pagey wrote:

Holy crap that is useful. I've heard that NVEC in the latest Nvidia cards is actually pretty good. I hope they update that with the latest engine. My plan for my next Plex server is a used 12-core Xeon with whatever replaces the 1050 (1650?), assuming a quality analysis is done on the performance.
 
Pagey
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Re: Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Fri Mar 29, 2019 2:30 pm

DragonDaddyBear wrote:
Pagey wrote:

Holy crap that is useful. I've heard that NVEC in the latest Nvidia cards is actually pretty good. I hope they update that with the latest engine. My plan for my next Plex server is a used 12-core Xeon with whatever replaces the 1050 (1650?), assuming a quality analysis is done on the performance.



Happy to help! Ran across that on the HB forums the other day and made a mental note of it for times like this.
 
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Re: Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:00 pm

DragonDaddyBear wrote:
Pagey wrote:

Holy crap that is useful. I've heard that NVEC in the latest Nvidia cards is actually pretty good. I hope they update that with the latest engine. My plan for my next Plex server is a used 12-core Xeon with whatever replaces the 1050 (1650?), assuming a quality analysis is done on the performance.

What do you need a 12-core for? Are you creating that much content that needs to be encoded near real-time?
Or maybe you're like me and just want it done NOW :D (even though letting it run for 2-3 days would be just as fine)
 
defaultluser
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Re: Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:05 pm

The Egg wrote:
Where do you live? If you’re anywhere near a Microcenter, they have refurbished Sandy and Ivy Bridge quad-core i5’s with 8GB in the $170-190 range. Despite being substantially older, I would expect them to still be faster than a dual-core at encoding.



if you must have a budget upgrade, go with the AMD 2200g. It's a full four cores, and actually supports AVX.

It's about $15 more than the Pentium I found on Amazon.

Why pay for a budget refurb when you can build a new 2200g system for only a little more?

Even though the Pentium has 4 threads, it's still a poor choice for video conversion.
Last edited by defaultluser on Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:09 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
Pagey
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Re: Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:06 pm

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
DragonDaddyBear wrote:
Pagey wrote:

Holy crap that is useful. I've heard that NVEC in the latest Nvidia cards is actually pretty good. I hope they update that with the latest engine. My plan for my next Plex server is a used 12-core Xeon with whatever replaces the 1050 (1650?), assuming a quality analysis is done on the performance.

What do you need a 12-core for? Are you creating that much content that needs to be encoded near real-time?
Or maybe you're like me and just want it done NOW :D (even though letting it run for 2-3 days would be just as fine)



LOL, indeeed. I went from an Athlon II 240 to a HP Pavilion Gaming desktop with an i5-7400 quad core, and my x.264 encodes are sooooo much faster. 480p stuff with medium preset and a CRF of 17 hit 80-90 FPS and 1080p source scaled to 720p at medium with a CRF of 20 gets into the 45-50 FPS range. Doing that on the old Athlon system would be around 20 FPS and 9 FPS, respectively.
 
The Egg
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Re: Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:21 pm

defaultluser wrote:
The Egg wrote:
Where do you live? If you’re anywhere near a Microcenter, they have refurbished Sandy and Ivy Bridge quad-core i5’s with 8GB in the $170-190 range. Despite being substantially older, I would expect them to still be faster than a dual-core at encoding.

Why pay for a budget refurb when you can build a new 2200g system for only a little more?

stfan wrote:
Objective: to get twice the speed out of Handbrake as cheaply as possible.

Moot point though, as OP has already stated he wants new.
 
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Re: Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:32 pm

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
What do you need a 12-core for? Are you creating that much content that needs to be encoded near real-time?

Plex (real-time)

OP said new but did not specify if it was new to them or new in box. I interpret the post as upgrade to be interchangeable with new. If that is true, then I still say if you want CPU transcodes then a used Xeon is the way to go.
 
stfan
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Re: Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:26 am

Thank you guys.
The lure of cheap Xeons is enticing, so thanks for the idea. It might be worth an ebay gamble, even though I wasn't intent on buying used. My concern is it may sip more electricity than more modern processors (plus a bit more work obtaining all the bits) but it's hard to argue with those prices.
 
DragonDaddyBear
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Re: Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:22 am

Will this system be running non-stop, dedicated to this? If so then the power consumption becomes a greater concern. If you can power the system off when it's not needed then the Xeon processors make a lot more sense.
 
SuperSpy
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Re: Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:36 am

Does the Windows version of Handbrake support the NVENC library? It might be worth investigating picking up a cheap modern GPU and using that for encodes.

Edit: according to the performance guide linked above, Handbrake supports all 3 major GPU encode libraries: QSV, NVENC, and VCE.
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The Egg
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Re: Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:14 am

f0d wrote:
if you can get an x58 cheap enough the 6 core xeons are crazy cheap at the moment
i picked up an x58 mobo i7 920 and 6gb ram recently for $60au - admittedly thats mega cheap but if you keep your eye out bargains are around
you can get a 6core12thread xeon for under $30 depending on what model you want
been snapping up any cheap x58s i see they make great budget systems with a xeon

Some of those Xeons are crazy cheap. I'd try for one that's Sandy Bridge-based though, as they have AVX in addition to a general boost. Also, aren't architectures prior to Sandy somewhat more vulnerable to Meltdown/Spectre? I seem to remember something about that, but was only half paying attention.
 
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Re: Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:17 am

SuperSpy wrote:
Does the Windows version of Handbrake support the NVENC library? It might be worth investigating picking up a cheap modern GPU and using that for encodes.

Edit: according to the performance guide linked above, Handbrake supports all 3 major GPU encode libraries: QSV, NVENC, and VCE.

That's a great point. IIRC, nvenc would be faster than any non-high-end CPU anyway.
 
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Re: Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Mon Apr 01, 2019 9:23 am

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
SuperSpy wrote:
Does the Windows version of Handbrake support the NVENC library? It might be worth investigating picking up a cheap modern GPU and using that for encodes.

Edit: according to the performance guide linked above, Handbrake supports all 3 major GPU encode libraries: QSV, NVENC, and VCE.

That's a great point. IIRC, nvenc would be faster than any non-high-end CPU anyway.

NVENC encodes are a bit fast and dirty compared to CPU. Only 1-pass with larger filesize and slightly less quality.
 
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Re: Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Mon Apr 01, 2019 10:33 am

The Egg wrote:
NVENC encodes are a bit fast and dirty compared to CPU. Only 1-pass with larger filesize and slightly less quality.


What I've read is NVEC on the newest GPU's is a far cry better than the old ones. Perhaps a good candidate for TechReport to do an article on?
 
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Re: Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:33 am

The Egg wrote:
Some of those Xeons are crazy cheap. I'd try for one that's Sandy Bridge-based though, as they have AVX in addition to a general boost. Also, aren't architectures prior to Sandy somewhat more vulnerable to Meltdown/Spectre? I seem to remember something about that, but was only half paying attention.


Generally speaking used X58 are cheap, but good used OC-worthy X58 mobos are anything but. Going by Ebay prices they make Ryzen 2600 look like a steal
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Pagey
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Re: Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Mon Apr 01, 2019 7:29 pm

Transcoding some media tonight, and wanted to leave this observation. Transcoding a modern, progressive 720x480p source file with Handbrake 1.2.2. Settings are to preserve the aspect ratio (leaving the "black bars) of 1.85, no decomb/deinterlace, medium speed, CRF 17, frame rate constant/same as source, encoder tuned for Film, level 4.0, AC3 5.1 passthrough. I get 20 FPS average on a Core 2 Duo E7500; same settings on the box with the i5-7400 yields an average 120 FPS, if you want a little apples to apples comparison. So, yeah...100 FPS average more on the more modern CPU.
 
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Re: Handbrake: expensive old CPU versus new budget CPU

Tue Apr 02, 2019 3:16 am

DragonDaddyBear wrote:
What I've read is NVEC on the newest GPU's is a far cry better than the old ones. Perhaps a good candidate for TechReport to do an article on?

I've done a few handbrake bluray transcodes with CPU vs NVENC on my geforce 1080, and unless it's changed significantly for RTX the file sizes for NVENC h.265 are gigantic. Like, 2-3 times the size of x264. The encode FPS are crazy high though (I think h.265 was ~500-600fps on my 1080 vs 18-20fps on my 6-core coffee lake i5).

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