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Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Sun Jul 07, 2019 3:35 pm

While we make some adjustments, please continue the discussion of Zak's awesome review below.
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Re: Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Sun Jul 07, 2019 4:20 pm

Ahh, OK. Tried to make a test post using the "Comments" button before I saw this.

Really kicking myself for pulling the trigger on a 2700X recently; these new CPUs look VERY good. At least I've got an X470 motherboard, so a future upgrade should be easy.

Interesting that the new chipset doesn't support 1st gen Ryzens. I wonder if that is a "it isn't validated but should work" thing, or a "it probably won't work" thing.

And yeah, as the review says, AMD hasn't been this competitive since the Athlon/P4 days.
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Re: Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:31 pm

Zak did a good job with the Ryzen 7 3700X and 3900X review.

Performance of the Ryzen 7 3700X looks appealing. While my coffee lake Core i7-9700K is still beating it in gaming benchmarks, Zen2's performance is close enough in gaming and dominant in productivity to make an affordable Ryzen CPU the better choice for most new PCs. Intel's 15% price cuts may need to become a bit steeper to compete.

Newegg's prices for motherboards with AMD's new X570 Valhalla PCIe 4.0 chipset are as high or higher than prices for Intel's Z390. :( However, testing shows less than 1% benchmark difference with X470 vs. X570. That could make a very affordable B450 motherboard an attractive option. 8)

Not yet released - Ryzen 9 3950X (16c/32t)
$500 Ryzen 9 3900X (12c/24t)
$400 Ryzen 7 3800X (8c/16t)
$330 Ryzen 7 3700X (8c/16t)
$250 Ryzen 5 3600X (6c/12t)
$200 Ryzen 5 3600 (6c/12t)
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Re: Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:43 pm

i know im a niche but its the overclocking that disappoints me on ryzen 3000 you barely get any overclocking headroom at all, stock speeds are competitive and are better value for dollar but overclocking isnt as competitive imo
i actually was planning on getting a 3600 and overclocking the snot out of it (currently have a 1700x) but i think im going back to intel and getting a 9600k
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Re: Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:07 pm

f0d wrote:
i know im a niche but its the overclocking that disappoints me on ryzen 3000 you barely get any overclocking headroom at all, stock speeds are competitive and are better value for dollar but overclocking isnt as competitive imo
i actually was planning on getting a 3600 and overclocking the snot out of it (currently have a 1700x) but i think im going back to intel and getting a 9600k


Not a lot of head room in the AMDs when it comes to over clocking to be sure. Not as much head room in the Intels as back in the "good ole days" either though. I ran my Core 2 Duo E6400 at 3.2 ghz for years. Stock was 2133 mhz :o
 
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Re: Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:28 pm

Hance wrote:
f0d wrote:
i know im a niche but its the overclocking that disappoints me on ryzen 3000 you barely get any overclocking headroom at all, stock speeds are competitive and are better value for dollar but overclocking isnt as competitive imo
i actually was planning on getting a 3600 and overclocking the snot out of it (currently have a 1700x) but i think im going back to intel and getting a 9600k


Not a lot of head room in the AMDs when it comes to over clocking to be sure. Not as much head room in the Intels as back in the "good ole days" either though. I ran my Core 2 Duo E6400 at 3.2 ghz for years. Stock was 2133 mhz :o

i ran my 3.2ghz 3930k at 5.0ghz for years
i do have a massive 3 radiator custom water loop so that might of had something to do with it :P
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Re: Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:29 pm

Once the pace of improvement of semiconductor fabrication process technology slowed down (or actually stopped more recently at Intel, Global Foundries and UMC), the chip designers have had to increase performance by making their designs more efficient. They've cleverly used up what used to be wasted as overclocking headroom and allowed the bog-standard chips to turn it into higher performance for all users.
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Re: Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Sun Jul 07, 2019 6:55 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
Once the pace of improvement of semiconductor fabrication process technology slowed down (or actually stopped more recently at Intel, Global Foundries and UMC), the chip designers have had to increase performance by making their designs more efficient. They've cleverly used up what used to be wasted as overclocking headroom and allowed the bog-standard chips to turn it into higher performance for all users.

yep and i cant really blame them for it but its a bit sad for us overclockers - getting that extra performance completely changes the price/performance metric and its also fun to do
i miss the great feeling you get unlocking a 6950 to a 6970 and getting massive overclocks on budget parts that makes it beat the highest end of products

that said it looks like intels 14+++++++++++ process over the iterations has made 5.0ghz+ all core an attainable overclock on a 9600k (which is a 3.6ghz part with 4.6ghz boost)
it might just be the last worthwhile budget cpu for overclocking and actually getting decent performance out of
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Re: Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:07 pm

Thank you for your great review.

Unfortunately a massive musician community was left heartbroken not to find DAWbench test included in your review. Music production may not be as big as video creation but still it's pretty significant and unfortunately largely ignored. All that music in our radios that we listen to all day long is created by people running DAWs... We need to know which CPU to buy to create more music!

Is there a chance DAWbench will be included in next reviews? Or is it possible for you to run it with just 3900x and post results (we'll compare them to your older results from previous reviews).

That would be fantastic.
 
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Re: Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:30 pm

Echoing my sentiment on the front page before all the comments disappeared, I'm real sad about this 9600K setup I got. Did not expect Ryzen 3000 to be this competitive from a single-thread perspective.
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Re: Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Sun Jul 07, 2019 7:34 pm

What's going on with the 3700X's memory bandwidth in the review? By any chance was the IF running at half speed? I thought it was supposed to be good for full speed up to 3600-ish, but if this is full, overall IF bandwidth looks cripplingly weak (and if this is half, it'd be great to know how high we can expect to get RAM without the IF downclock).
 
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Re: Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Sun Jul 07, 2019 9:15 pm

synthtel2 wrote:
What's going on with the 3700X's memory bandwidth?
Here's a quick look at the effect of different memory speeds and latencies. According to the AMD slide, the infinity fabric clock should be 1:1 with memory clock up to DDR4-3733 (PC4-29800).
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Re: Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:01 pm

It has been mentioned in other reviews that AMD halved the memory write performance on the 3700X in order to lower power draw and because they didn't feel it made a big difference for client workloads.

Tweaktown wrote:
We were a bit sad to see the 3700X's write performance, but AMD did mention they did it to help reduce power consumption and that most real-world workloads don't utilize memory write that much.

https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/9051/ ... ndex8.html

Guru3d wrote:
You will have noticed that the Ryzen 3000 processors with up to 8 cores make use of one CPU die. Here the write performance is halved. According to AMD, this is normal behavior. They claim that client workloads do very little pure writing, so the CCD/IOD link is 32B/cycle while reading and 16B/cycle for writing. This allowed AMD to save power and area inside the package to spend on other, more beneficial areas.

https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/a ... ew,21.html
 
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Re: Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:08 pm

Thanks! That is disappointing though. :(

Edit: The more I think about it, the more it makes sense. Also, for 6/8C parts tripping the downclock sounds like it'll basically never be a good thing, but for 12/16C parts there's relatively little harm done by it, and it gives the 16C parts the option of using ludicrous memory clocks to get around having so many cores on so few channels. Cool!
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Re: Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Sun Jul 07, 2019 10:46 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Interesting that the new chipset doesn't support 1st gen Ryzens. I wonder if that is a "it isn't validated but should work" thing, or a "it probably won't work" thing.


I believe it's a 'not enough space in the BIOS EEPROM' thing. I recall reading a report that certain motherboards could be given a BIOS upgrade that supports Ryzen 2 at the expense of dropping 1st gen Ryzen parts.

Happened to me too on X79 when I upgraded my motherboard to the latest BIOS, it took away support for the older Sandy Bridge Xeon that I was using in order to add support for newer Ivy Bridge-EP chips.
 
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Re: Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:08 pm

Great review! Any chance we'll see a 3600 review at some point? Personally, I think that AMD's competition for what has traditionally been the gaming "sweet spot" (an i5 in the $200-$250 range) is the most interesting product being released. By the time games truly benefit from 8c/16t CPUs there will be faster chips on the market, so getting the best bang for the buck 6-core now is key for budget conscious builders like myself. I'd be surprised if the $130 (65%) price increase going from a 3600 to a 3700X made much of a difference in games unless the average reachable overclocked speed is significantly lower on the 3600.

It'd also be nice to see a high end aftermarket air cooler thrown into the mix. :)
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Re: Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:07 am

Impressive showing; AMD has done a great job of catching up to Intel, and in some cases even beating blue team's best. I won't be upgrading for a long time thanks to a HEDT platform built in 2016, but it's nice to know that I've got solid options when I do.

Ironically, I was doing some cleaning this afternoon and came across the boxed Phenom II that I bought on sale in the wake of the Bulldozer fiasco, not long after upgrading to an i5-2500K. I was an AMD guy since the K6 era, but the writing was on the wall and I really thought that AMD was not long for this world. The Phenom was going to be a memento of a time when there was more than one x86 company, but clearly that is no longer something I have to worry about. I am tempted to send it to AMD with a congratulatory letter explaining the story and why I don't need it anymore, but they'd probably just throw away a perfectly good processor. It'll make some good material for when I get around to making my own blog, at least.
 
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Re: Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:31 am

Nuieve wrote:
Is there a chance DAWbench will be included in next reviews? Or is it possible for you to run it with just 3900x and post results (we'll compare them to your older results from previous reviews).


Before all the comments got eaten I remember Zak mentioning that licensing for DAWbench is extremely complicated, and he didn't have time to get everything in order before the launch.

derFunkenstein wrote:
Echoing my sentiment on the front page before all the comments disappeared, I'm real sad about this 9600K setup I got. Did not expect Ryzen 3000 to be this competitive from a single-thread perspective.


It's a bigger jump than I expected also, but that doesn't make your 9600K any worse. I mean, it's not like you bought an RTX 2070 a few months before everything went Super... :lol:
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Re: Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Mon Jul 08, 2019 3:52 am

I don't see many comments on the X570 platform. This is definitely a step up from the traditional AM4 platforms and closes the gap somewhat with the HEDT platforms (number of PCIe, SATA, USB etc) but OMG the prices are insane. The Crosshair VIII starts at $400+ and the MSI godlike is $600+.

Given the (apparent) lack of OC potential and the lack of benefit with PCIe 4.0 at this stage, is there a point in getting a high-end X570 motherboard ? Between a high-end X470 and a midrange X570 what would you choose?
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Re: Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:17 am

I have power to approve comments on the front page now, feel free to leave your remarks about the review there or here. If you've got thoughts on the site redesign, we're talking about those here.
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Re: Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:34 am

Der8auer's X570 chipset power consumption video is up
Skip to 14:00 for results
2x the power consumption compared to X470.
PCIe4.0 SSD imparts not even 0.5W extra power consumption from the chipset compared to PCIe3.0
@ 15:50 he attached a small/average passive heatsink to the chipset and kept it at 74C on an open test bench.

AMD really borked their in-house chipset design here.

Coupled with the shady "Max Boost Clock" numbers (that actually represent the best POSSIBLE boost clock from any binned CPU even under massive custom water cooling) that hardly anyone will see.

Not impressed.
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Re: Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:02 am

Thanks for the review!

As always, the summary charts at the end showing price/performance for productivity vs gaming is an excellent feature.

In staring at those charts, I'm struck by the (in some ways surprising) strength of Intel's position due to gaming performance. I'm not a gamer, but realistically most consumer CPUs priced in the >$200 range are going to gamers. Despite losing the process lead, despite sitting on a Skylake design that hasn't been meaningfully updates (other than more cores) since 2015, Intel still wins by a noticeable margin with gaming.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm thrilled that AMD is doing so well in the world of doing real work with a computer. It's just striking how resilient Skylake + 14nm has been.

It sure will be interesting to see Zen3 vs Sunny Cove....
 
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Re: Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:51 am

DPete27 wrote:
Coupled with the shady "Max Boost Clock" numbers (that actually represent the best POSSIBLE boost clock from any binned CPU even under massive custom water cooling) that hardly anyone will see.

Not impressed.


^^This^^

There were a handful of "leaks" floating about a few weeks before release showing purported results for 12 core and 16 core models running at 5 GHz. Not sure if those were LN2 or pure fiction, but based on the reviews it looks like real world users are more likely to see a live T-Rex than clocks like those...
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Re: Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:22 pm

The leaks I saw with 5 GHz clocks were all LN2.

There are affordable X570 boards, I was able to grab a Gigabyte Gaming X for $170 yesterday.
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Re: Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:50 am

jihadjoe wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
Interesting that the new chipset doesn't support 1st gen Ryzens. I wonder if that is a "it isn't validated but should work" thing, or a "it probably won't work" thing.

I believe it's a 'not enough space in the BIOS EEPROM' thing. I recall reading a report that certain motherboards could be given a BIOS upgrade that supports Ryzen 2 at the expense of dropping 1st gen Ryzen parts.

Happened to me too on X79 when I upgraded my motherboard to the latest BIOS, it took away support for the older Sandy Bridge Xeon that I was using in order to add support for newer Ivy Bridge-EP chips.

Ahh, I seem to recall reading something about that EEPROM size limitation too. Between the complexity of modern UEFI firmware, needing to store microcode patches, and the proliferation of CPU SKUs that motherboards need to support these days, it sounds like it is time for motherboard makers to move to larger EEPROMs.
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Re: Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:05 pm

Waco wrote:
The leaks I saw with 5 GHz clocks were all LN2.

There are affordable X570 boards, I was able to grab a Gigabyte Gaming X for $170 yesterday.


It looks like a decent board, I haven't looked at many of the budget boards yet. (mostly because I'm not buying one).
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Re: Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:16 pm

thecoldanddarkone wrote:
It looks like a decent board, I haven't looked at many of the budget boards yet. (mostly because I'm not buying one).

It's pretty barebone, but it's also half the cost of most X570 boards. For a desktop build without a ton of PCIe cards, it fits the bill.
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Re: Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:40 pm

I realize this is meta but... why not include an "Article Discussion" link in every article from now on?

Phoronix has their comments on their PHPbb based forum. That way all the badge-stuff and logins work just fine. Basically, all articles should have a discussion in the forums here.

--------

As for the article: it was good. I don't think I have much comment. Very good article, I don't think I can really contribute any thoughts.
 
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Re: Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:52 pm

Actually the Ars method would work well too - the forum responses *are* the comments on the article. They're interchangeable.
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Re: Official: Ryzen 3700X and 3900X review comments

Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:54 pm

It’s a lot easier to skim the responses in a threaded way than in a linear forum, IMHO. Also harder to have discussions around multiple topics.

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