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Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:06 pm

Sup,

I am impatiently waiting for Zen 2 Threadrippers to be unleashed by AMD. This feels like GoT where the 64 core will cause Intel to go up in flames.

I'm trying to compile all the news/rumors so I can to get a little more information to feed the insatiable upgrade beast.

Anandtech seems to think there will be a 64 core variant

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14059/am ... er-in-2019

AMD’s 2nd Gen EPYC (codenamed Rome) and 3rd Gen Ryzen Threadripper processors have a lot in common. EPYC will have eight 7nm Zen 2-based chiplets to provide up to 64 cores and an IO die. We expect the 3rd Gen Ryzen Threadripper to be built on the same platform, but we don't expect to see parity on power/core/frequency based on how the first generation Threadripper only offered half the cores of the 1st Gen EPYC.


Interview with Lisa Su - evidence to substantiate higher core claims

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14579/al ... dr-lisa-su

Tarinder Sandhu, Hexus: Given that you’ve got 24+ threads now in mainstream Ryzen (the 12-core), can it be argued at all that it’s kind of stepping on Threadripper’s toes?

Lisa Su: Threadripper is still an important step up. You will see future generations of Threadripper from us. Now obviously if mainstream is moving up, Threadripper is going to have to move up up.


Speech by AMD CTO Mark Papermaster on Zen 3 7nm+ EUV/u]

https://www.techpowerup.com/254656/amd- ... y-increase

CTO Mark Papermaster stated AMD's design goal with "Zen 3" would be to prioritize energy-efficiency, and that it would present "modest" performance improvements (read: IPC improvements) over "Zen 2." AMD made it clear that it won't drag 7 nm DUV over more than one microarchitecture (Zen 2), and that "Zen 3" will debut in 2020 on 7 nm+ EUV.


[u]Possible 16-core Threadripper leak:

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-t ... 40011.html

The leaked AMD 100-000000011-12 sample has the OPN (Ordering Part Number) in the codename, which implies the specifications are very close to what we can expect from the final product. UserBenchmark detects the processor with 16 cores, 32 threads, 3.6 GHz base clock and 4.05 GHz average boost clock.


Possible 32-core Threadripper leak:

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/amd-t ... 40151.html

There are two Geekbench 4 entries for the AMD 100-000000011-11 chips. One entry has single-core and multi-core scores of 5,932 and 93,344 points, respectively. The other entry shows a single-core score of 5,677 points and a multi-core score of 94,772 points. For the sake of comparison, we're using the latter entry and comparing it to the highest Threadripper 2990WX entry available in the Geekbench 4 database. The Castle Peak chip performs up to 4.72% and 14.63% faster than the Threadripper 2990WX in single-core and multi-core workloads, respectively.


Leaked 64-core Threadripper with Cinebench R15 Score:

https://wccftech.com/amd-epyc-rome-7nm- ... mark-leak/

The chip was tested in Cinebench R15 multi-thread benchmark and the chip scores an astonishing 12,587 points which are beyond anything current-generation processors can achieve. AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2990WX scores around 5500 points in the same benchmark with 32 cores and 64 threads.


Dr. Ian Cutress asking the real question at Hot Chips opened by Dr. Lisa Su - Threadripper in 2019 #confirmed:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14762/ho ... g-145pm-pt

05:40PM EDT - Q: How is AMD approaching the workstation market? How does that pertain to threadripper? A: We love the workstation market, and yes there will be a next generation of Threadripper. Q: Can you say when? A: If I said soon, is that enough? Q: No? A: How about within a year? Q: Can you say if 2019? A: How about this - you will hear more about Threadripper in 2019.


This is all I have for now.

Let me know if I missed anything and I will continue to update this thread as new information comes out.
 
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Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Wed Aug 21, 2019 11:40 am

I suspect Threadripper 3 will come flavors of 4, 6 and 8 active chiplets. Their base clockspeed will be comparable to the current Zen2-based Ryzens. The boost speed might be a little better but nothing earth-shattering. 64-core SKU will effectively be 2990WX's successor but will probably suffer from memory bandwidth issues. On the postivie side, all Threadripper 3 will have the same NUMA domain as their Zen-2 so less weird NUMA-UMA setups.

60 PCIe 4.0 lanes is going to be an insane amount of I/O throughput. You could setup a high-end SSD NAS with that or drive a bunch of GPGPUs for general compute stuff.
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Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:17 pm

Technically EPYC 2 and the new Threadrippers are NUMA...they just come by default with a single NUMA domain exposed (well, Rome/EPYC 2 does, so I assume the HEDT parts will be the same). There's a handful of nanosecond penalty to cross the IO die and hit the memory controllers that are further away.

Granted, it's low enough that is usually makes little difference, but for those that bother to make their apps NUMA-aware, there's a decent performance boost from doing so if they're latency sensitive.
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Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Fri Sep 20, 2019 12:36 pm

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Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:02 am

JustAnEngineer wrote:

Hopefully this delay is indicative of high demand for AMD’s other chiplet-based products, not a problem of yields.

The high demand story makes more sense to me because TSMC has shown itself fully capable of making very high volumes of 7nm chips, including chips bigger than these little chiplets.
 
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Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:48 am

blastdoor wrote:
JustAnEngineer wrote:

Hopefully this delay is indicative of high demand for AMD’s other chiplet-based products, not a problem of yields.

The high demand story makes more sense to me because TSMC has shown itself fully capable of making very high volumes of 7nm chips, including chips bigger than these little chiplets.

It could be a little of both. The recent revelation that only a subset of cores on a chiplet are capable of hitting the maximum boost clock speed kind of implies that they're pushing the limits on yields/binning.
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Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:23 am

blastdoor wrote:
Hopefully this delay is indicative of high demand for AMD’s other chiplet-based products, not a problem of yields.

The high demand story makes more sense to me because TSMC has shown itself fully capable of making very high volumes of 7nm chips, including chips bigger than these little chiplets.


Apparently TSMC is having trouble getting product out. They've increased their manufacturing lead times to ~6 months.

https://www.techpowerup.com/259289/tsmc-trembles-under-7-nm-product-orders-increases-delivery-lead-times-threefold-could-hit-amd-product-availability

TSMC has announced a threefold increase in its delivery lead times for 7 nm orders, from two months to nearly six months, which means that orders will now have to wait three times longer to be fulfilled than they once did. This means that current channel supplies and orders made after the decision from TSMC will take longer to materialize in actual silicon, which may lead to availability slumps should demand increase or maintain.
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Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Mon Sep 23, 2019 6:45 am

K-L-Waster wrote:
Apparently TSMC is having trouble getting product out. They've increased their manufacturing lead times to ~6 months.

It doesn't necessarily mean they're having trouble. It may just be that demand is outpacing their production capacity.
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Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:09 am

just brew it! wrote:
K-L-Waster wrote:
Apparently TSMC is having trouble getting product out. They've increased their manufacturing lead times to ~6 months.

It doesn't necessarily mean they're having trouble. It may just be that demand is outpacing their production capacity.


Indeed. Also, do we know if the longer lead times are for the 7nm DUV process they introduced last year or for one of the 7+ processes (there seem to be two of them, yes?)

SFAIK, AMD is using the process introduced last year. That process churned out huge volumes (compared to AMD) of A12 and A12x SOCs for Apple, plus other smartphone makers. The A12X in particular is no slouch -- about 10 billion transistors and a die size of 122 mm^2. https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/apple/ax/a12x
 
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Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:22 am

I believe that Threadripper 3000 series processors (using Zen2 chiplets) were always projected for the fourth quarter. We might have hoped for October rather than November, but there’s not much delay, if any, for these processors, no matter how impatient folks may be to build new workstations.
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Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:12 am

blastdoor wrote:
That process churned out huge volumes (compared to AMD) of A12 and A12x SOCs for Apple, plus other smartphone makers. The A12X in particular is no slouch -- about 10 billion transistors and a die size of 122 mm^2. https://en.wikichip.org/wiki/apple/ax/a12x


That could be the problem really -- between Apple and AMD, they're swamped for capacity. Even if everything is working manufacturing wise, they could be getting slammed by sheer volume.
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Threadripper 3000 series CPUs

Sat Oct 12, 2019 4:24 pm

TRX40 motherboards should appear next month, but they will not be compatible with 1st and 2nd generation ThreadRippers.
https://www.techpowerup.com/259977/msi- ... otherboard
https://www.techpowerup.com/259993/amd- ... eadrippers
https://www.techpowerup.com/258739/amd- ... -and-wrx80
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Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Thu Oct 17, 2019 7:55 am

Budget-friendly Threadripper 3960X will start with 24 cores & 48 threads.
https://www.techpowerup.com/260213/amd- ... tarts-with
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Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:13 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
Budget-friendly Threadripper 3960X will start with 24 cores & 48 threads.
https://www.techpowerup.com/260213/amd- ... tarts-with


That link references a new socket but still quad channel memory. I was hoping they’d increase the number of channels, but maybe they want to keep that a differentiator for Epyc.
 
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Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:47 am

Eight memory channels make the motherboard dramatically more expensive, so I'd guess it's a little of that and an Epyc differentiator.
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Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Sat Oct 19, 2019 7:59 am

Waco wrote:
Eight memory channels make the motherboard dramatically more expensive, so I'd guess it's a little of that and an Epyc differentiator.

Makes sense. I imagine routing 8 memory buses requires additional PCB layers. That's gonna drive manufacturing costs up a fair bit.
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Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Sun Oct 20, 2019 5:42 am

The 16-core desktop Ryzen 9 3950X looks good against the 18-core workstation Core i9-10980XE in leaked benchmarks. Is AMD's desktop line stealing thunder from their new Threadripper?
https://hothardware.com/news/amd-ryzen- ... rk-physics
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Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:35 am

Turn that 16X PCIe 4.0 slot into four 4X PCIe 4.0 SSDs...
https://www.techpowerup.com/260341/giga ... -for-trx40
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Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:32 am

JustAnEngineer wrote:
The 16-core desktop Ryzen 9 3950X looks good against the 18-core workstation Core i9-10980XE in leaked benchmarks. Is AMD's desktop line stealing thunder from their new Threadripper?
https://hothardware.com/news/amd-ryzen- ... rk-physics
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No, Threadripper has more cores, memory bandwidth and I/O connectivity. It makes more sense for professional crowd that has a need for any of those items.
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Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Tue Oct 22, 2019 10:08 am

Krogoth wrote:
No, Threadripper has more cores, memory bandwidth and I/O connectivity. It makes more sense for professional crowd that has a need for any of those items.


It may, however, peel off the users who want ThreadRipper more for e-peen than for practicality.
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Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:32 am

K-L-Waster wrote:
Krogoth wrote:
No, Threadripper has more cores, memory bandwidth and I/O connectivity. It makes more sense for professional crowd that has a need for any of those items.


It may, however, peel off the users who want ThreadRipper more for e-peen than for practicality.


Nah, it is more likely e-peen crowd would opt for Threadripper just for the extra memory bandwidth (more points in synthetic benches) and I/O connectivity (NMVe RAID PCIe and SLI/CF madness).
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Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:25 pm

Waco wrote:
Eight memory channels make the motherboard dramatically more expensive, so I'd guess it's a little of that and an Epyc differentiator.


It is more expensive, but then again so is buying a second system.

So far, two key differentiators between TR and Epyc have been more clock speed for TR but more memory channels for Epyc. For a high-end workstation, it's reasonable to want both higher clock speed and more memory channels, TDP be damned.

Anandtech recently reported that there will be some 280W TDP Epyc models --- maybe that just means they've decided to pull "high end workstation" under the Epyc branding rather than TR branding.
 
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Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:49 am

Epyc also supported buffered ECC, where TR only supports unbuffered DIMMs. That's a huge differentiator if you need more than 256 GB of RAM (last I checked you can only get up to 32 GB UDIMMs in ECC).
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Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Wed Oct 23, 2019 4:40 pm

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Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Tue Nov 05, 2019 4:32 pm

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Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:02 pm

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Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:03 pm

Throw a bunch of salt on those listings, because the L2/L3 cache sizing is almost 100% incorrect. There's no way AMD is running 8 chiplets on a 24 or 32 core part.
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Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:21 am

https://www.anandtech.com/show/15062/am ... all-update

Nice.

They're raising the price on the 24 and 32 core Threadrippers, but the performance gains may very well justify it. I look forward to reviews.
 
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Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:30 pm

Aww, dammit. Confirmed that the new Threadrippers will need a new motherboard. That sucks, I was hoping to be able to drop in a newer Threadripper into my NAS in the future when they drop in price.
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Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Thu Nov 07, 2019 12:53 pm

Waco wrote:
Aww, dammit. Confirmed that the new Threadrippers will need a new motherboard. That sucks, I was hoping to be able to drop in a newer Threadripper into my NAS in the future when they drop in price.


Well, you could always drop in a 2950X or a 2990WX after the post-3000 launch fire-sales start. Not as big of a perf jump, but could be attractively priced soonish...
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