Personal computing discussed

Moderators: renee, Flying Fox, morphine

 
Waco
Gold subscriber
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3227
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:14 pm
Location: Los Alamos, NM

Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Thu Nov 07, 2019 1:53 pm

I was looking more at the power savings and IPC improvements versus raw performance. The 24 core Zen 2 is likely about 50% faster than my 1950X and would use substantially less power in normal workloads.
Desktop: X570 Gaming X | 3900X | 32 GB | Alphacool Eisblock Radeon VII | Heatkiller R3 | Samsung 4K 40" | 1 TB SX8200 Pro + 2 TB 660p + 2 TB SATA SSD
NAS: 1950X | Designare EX | 32 GB ECC | 7x8 TB RAIDZ2 | 8x2 TB RAID10 | FreeNAS | ZFS | LSI SAS
 
JustAnEngineer
Gold subscriber
Gerbil God
Posts: 19062
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Heart of Dixie

Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Thu Nov 07, 2019 2:02 pm

I don’t have a need for a Threadripper, but the performance offered in a single socket is impressive.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/15062/am ... all-update
i7-9700K, NH-D15, Z390M Pro4, 32 GiB, RX Vega64, Define Mini-C, SSR-850PX, C32HG70+U2407, RK-9000BR, MX518
 
Krogoth
Gerbil Elder
Posts: 5838
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 3:20 pm
Location: somewhere on Core Prime
Contact:

Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Thu Nov 07, 2019 3:20 pm

Waco wrote:
I was looking more at the power savings and IPC improvements versus raw performance. The 24 core Zen 2 is likely about 50% faster than my 1950X and would use substantially less power in normal workloads.


Unless you are pulling the CPU hard for other workloads and/or are doing insane I/O throughput. I doubt you'll get much power savings from going to Threadripper 3.

The new chiplet setup probably doesn't play nice with older TR4 socket. It is not much different first generation Socket 2011 being unable to handle Haswell-E and newer.
Gigabyte Z390 AORUS-PRO Coffee Lake R 9700K, 2x8GiB of G.Skill DDR4-3600, Sapphire RX Vega 64, Corsair CX-750M V2 and Fractal Define R4 (W)
Ivy Bridge 3570K, 2x4GiB of G.Skill RIPSAW DDR3-1600, Gigabyte Z77X-UD3H, Corsair CX-750M V2, and PC-7B
 
Waco
Gold subscriber
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3227
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:14 pm
Location: Los Alamos, NM

Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:38 pm

Krogoth wrote:
Unless you are pulling the CPU hard for other workloads and/or are doing insane I/O throughput. I doubt you'll get much power savings from going to Threadripper 3.

Given I have a few Rome servers in my testbeds at work already, I'm pretty confident I'd see a pretty substantial drop in average power use for almost every workload I tend to stress it with. Idle power drops significantly too.

Further - this is a segmentation move (or they broke consumer TR3 more than the server version) because Rome chips drop right into first-generation Naples boards with a BIOS update. Obviously PCIe4 doesn't work, but everything else does.
Desktop: X570 Gaming X | 3900X | 32 GB | Alphacool Eisblock Radeon VII | Heatkiller R3 | Samsung 4K 40" | 1 TB SX8200 Pro + 2 TB 660p + 2 TB SATA SSD
NAS: 1950X | Designare EX | 32 GB ECC | 7x8 TB RAIDZ2 | 8x2 TB RAID10 | FreeNAS | ZFS | LSI SAS
 
Krogoth
Gerbil Elder
Posts: 5838
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 3:20 pm
Location: somewhere on Core Prime
Contact:

Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Thu Nov 07, 2019 5:48 pm

Waco wrote:
Krogoth wrote:
Unless you are pulling the CPU hard for other workloads and/or are doing insane I/O throughput. I doubt you'll get much power savings from going to Threadripper 3.

Given I have a few Rome servers in my testbeds at work already, I'm pretty confident I'd see a pretty substantial drop in average power use for almost every workload I tend to stress it with. Idle power drops significantly too.

Further - this is a segmentation move (or they broke consumer TR3 more than the server version) because Rome chips drop right into first-generation Naples boards with a BIOS update. Obviously PCIe4 doesn't work, but everything else does.


Unless the NAS is doing heavy-duty I/O throughput or other stuff it isn't going to be taxing the CPU at all especially in a home setting. Modern CPUs are extremely easy on the power under light loads. The node advantage in power consumption doesn't manifest much here. FYI, my personal NAS barely uses one of the 3570K's cores with a modest 4 HDD setup (XFS, mirrored volumes striped) when scrubbing. I doubt your setup taxes that X1950.
Gigabyte Z390 AORUS-PRO Coffee Lake R 9700K, 2x8GiB of G.Skill DDR4-3600, Sapphire RX Vega 64, Corsair CX-750M V2 and Fractal Define R4 (W)
Ivy Bridge 3570K, 2x4GiB of G.Skill RIPSAW DDR3-1600, Gigabyte Z77X-UD3H, Corsair CX-750M V2, and PC-7B
 
Waco
Gold subscriber
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3227
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:14 pm
Location: Los Alamos, NM

Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Thu Nov 07, 2019 8:34 pm

Krogoth wrote:
Unless the NAS is doing heavy-duty I/O throughput or other stuff it isn't going to be taxing the CPU at all especially in a home setting. Modern CPUs are extremely easy on the power under light loads. The node advantage in power consumption doesn't manifest much here. FYI, my personal NAS barely uses one of the 3570K's cores with a modest 4 HDD setup (XFS, mirrored volumes striped) when scrubbing. I doubt your setup taxes that X1950.

I'm glad you know my use case better than I do. :lol: Further, the node advantage and better power management matters quite a bit in light loading scenarios (heck, even gen 2 TR chopped 10-15 watts off of idle power).

I don't know what your definition of "heavy-duty I/O throughput" is, but I bet my definition differs significantly. :wink:
Desktop: X570 Gaming X | 3900X | 32 GB | Alphacool Eisblock Radeon VII | Heatkiller R3 | Samsung 4K 40" | 1 TB SX8200 Pro + 2 TB 660p + 2 TB SATA SSD
NAS: 1950X | Designare EX | 32 GB ECC | 7x8 TB RAIDZ2 | 8x2 TB RAID10 | FreeNAS | ZFS | LSI SAS
 
JustAnEngineer
Gold subscriber
Gerbil God
Posts: 19062
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Heart of Dixie

Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Thu Nov 07, 2019 9:09 pm

Waco wrote:
Krogoth wrote:
Unless the NAS is doing heavy-duty I/O throughput or other stuff it isn't going to be taxing the CPU...
I'm glad you know my use case better than I do.... I don't know what your definition of "heavy-duty I/O throughput" is, but I bet my definition differs significantly. :wink:
https://techreport.com/forums/viewtopic ... 0#p1414670 A 30 PB array of flash drives should be capable of fairly high I/O rates, I would expect. :lol:
i7-9700K, NH-D15, Z390M Pro4, 32 GiB, RX Vega64, Define Mini-C, SSR-850PX, C32HG70+U2407, RK-9000BR, MX518
 
Krogoth
Gerbil Elder
Posts: 5838
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 3:20 pm
Location: somewhere on Core Prime
Contact:

Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Fri Nov 08, 2019 9:55 am

Waco wrote:
Krogoth wrote:
Unless the NAS is doing heavy-duty I/O throughput or other stuff it isn't going to be taxing the CPU at all especially in a home setting. Modern CPUs are extremely easy on the power under light loads. The node advantage in power consumption doesn't manifest much here. FYI, my personal NAS barely uses one of the 3570K's cores with a modest 4 HDD setup (XFS, mirrored volumes striped) when scrubbing. I doubt your setup taxes that X1950.

I'm glad you know my use case better than I do. :lol: Further, the node advantage and better power management matters quite a bit in light loading scenarios (heck, even gen 2 TR chopped 10-15 watts off of idle power).

I don't know what your definition of "heavy-duty I/O throughput" is, but I bet my definition differs significantly. :wink:


We are talking about GiB/s of throughput with several hundred to couple thousands of simultaneous queries (if not more) that are commonplace in a datacenter and enterprise setting. Not so much in a home/personal environment unless you want to stress test for the hell of it (assuming you have the hardware for it). :wink:

~5-15W reduction for a single non-mobile system is nothing. It might give you a couple of more minutes with UPS batteries but nothing earth-shattering.
Gigabyte Z390 AORUS-PRO Coffee Lake R 9700K, 2x8GiB of G.Skill DDR4-3600, Sapphire RX Vega 64, Corsair CX-750M V2 and Fractal Define R4 (W)
Ivy Bridge 3570K, 2x4GiB of G.Skill RIPSAW DDR3-1600, Gigabyte Z77X-UD3H, Corsair CX-750M V2, and PC-7B
 
Waco
Gold subscriber
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3227
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:14 pm
Location: Los Alamos, NM

Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Fri Nov 08, 2019 3:32 pm

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. I'll note that my day job is HPC storage. I do run a few GB/s of throughput on my NAS in the SSD pool pretty routinely, not that IO even remotely stresses even the 1950X. Encoding and transcoding, however, do.
Desktop: X570 Gaming X | 3900X | 32 GB | Alphacool Eisblock Radeon VII | Heatkiller R3 | Samsung 4K 40" | 1 TB SX8200 Pro + 2 TB 660p + 2 TB SATA SSD
NAS: 1950X | Designare EX | 32 GB ECC | 7x8 TB RAIDZ2 | 8x2 TB RAID10 | FreeNAS | ZFS | LSI SAS
 
Krogoth
Gerbil Elder
Posts: 5838
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 3:20 pm
Location: somewhere on Core Prime
Contact:

Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:46 am

Waco wrote:
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. I'll note that my day job is HPC storage. I do run a few GB/s of throughput on my NAS in the SSD pool pretty routinely, not that IO even remotely stresses even the 1950X. Encoding and transcoding, however, do.


You got a HTPC + NAS box there and that changes the equation. In that case, a Threadripper 3 would provide returns on power consumption in that use case.

I heavily suspect that Threadripper 3 uses a different I/O chip than Rome which is why it breaks compatibility with older TR4 socket (which is a crippled SP2 done as a stop-gap). We'll find out for sure once TR3 gets in private hands and somebody is crazy and bold enough to delid it.
Gigabyte Z390 AORUS-PRO Coffee Lake R 9700K, 2x8GiB of G.Skill DDR4-3600, Sapphire RX Vega 64, Corsair CX-750M V2 and Fractal Define R4 (W)
Ivy Bridge 3570K, 2x4GiB of G.Skill RIPSAW DDR3-1600, Gigabyte Z77X-UD3H, Corsair CX-750M V2, and PC-7B
 
Waco
Gold subscriber
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3227
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:14 pm
Location: Los Alamos, NM

Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Sat Nov 09, 2019 1:01 pm

No, it's a NAS. Headless.

Regardless, TR3 does use the same IO chip. The wider paths to the chipset are the reason for rewiring the socket. I'm willing to bet after a few months a vendor will figure out how to get Rome working on the older socket (assuming it doesn't work out of the box, just "unsupported"). SP2 and TR4 only differ in memory channel wiring out from the socket. They're otherwise identical.
Desktop: X570 Gaming X | 3900X | 32 GB | Alphacool Eisblock Radeon VII | Heatkiller R3 | Samsung 4K 40" | 1 TB SX8200 Pro + 2 TB 660p + 2 TB SATA SSD
NAS: 1950X | Designare EX | 32 GB ECC | 7x8 TB RAIDZ2 | 8x2 TB RAID10 | FreeNAS | ZFS | LSI SAS
 
Amiga500+
Gerbil
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:10 am

Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:42 pm

Disappointed in the break of X399 compatibility - and done for reasons that I don't entirely find justifiable.
 
Krogoth
Gerbil Elder
Posts: 5838
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 3:20 pm
Location: somewhere on Core Prime
Contact:

Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Tue Nov 12, 2019 2:43 pm

Waco wrote:
No, it's a NAS. Headless.

Regardless, TR3 does use the same IO chip. The wider paths to the chipset are the reason for rewiring the socket. I'm willing to bet after a few months a vendor will figure out how to get Rome working on the older socket (assuming it doesn't work out of the box, just "unsupported"). SP2 and TR4 only differ in memory channel wiring out from the socket. They're otherwise identical.


They are electrical differences as well which is why TR cannot POST with a SP2 board and likewise Epyc chips cannot POST with a Socket TR4 board. I don't think we'll see Rome working on Socket TR4 (without hardware mods) due to electrical differences brought on by the I/O controller.
Gigabyte Z390 AORUS-PRO Coffee Lake R 9700K, 2x8GiB of G.Skill DDR4-3600, Sapphire RX Vega 64, Corsair CX-750M V2 and Fractal Define R4 (W)
Ivy Bridge 3570K, 2x4GiB of G.Skill RIPSAW DDR3-1600, Gigabyte Z77X-UD3H, Corsair CX-750M V2, and PC-7B
 
Waco
Gold subscriber
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3227
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 4:14 pm
Location: Los Alamos, NM

Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Wed Nov 13, 2019 1:00 pm

Krogoth wrote:
They are electrical differences as well which is why TR cannot POST with a SP2 board and likewise Epyc chips cannot POST with a Socket TR4 board.

Not really. It's purely a support thing - the sockets themselves are compatible each way. I've spoken with the AMD engineers on this, and it's purely to keep SP3 board costs down and keep people from exploding board VRMs by dropping big Epyc chips in unvalidated boards. There's no further technical limitation on firing up an Epyc chip in a desktop TR4 board (or vice versa) besides lack of BIOS support to get them to POST.

I would not be shocked if Threadripper 3 chips will work in some older TR4 boards. I'm sure BIOS updates will clamp that down if so.
Desktop: X570 Gaming X | 3900X | 32 GB | Alphacool Eisblock Radeon VII | Heatkiller R3 | Samsung 4K 40" | 1 TB SX8200 Pro + 2 TB 660p + 2 TB SATA SSD
NAS: 1950X | Designare EX | 32 GB ECC | 7x8 TB RAIDZ2 | 8x2 TB RAID10 | FreeNAS | ZFS | LSI SAS
 
JustAnEngineer
Gold subscriber
Gerbil God
Posts: 19062
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Heart of Dixie

Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:18 am

https://www.anandtech.com/show/15044/th ... res-on-7nm
AnandTech's Dr. Ian Cutress wrote:
I have never used the word ‘bloodbath’ in a review before. It seems messy, violent, and a little bit gruesome. But when we look at the results from the new AMD Threadripper processors, it seems more than appropriate. AMD has scored wins across almost all of our benchmark suite. In anything embarrassingly parallel it rules the roost by a large margin (except for our one AVX-512 benchmark). Single threaded performance trails the high-frequency mainstream parts, but it is still very close. Even in memory sensitive workloads, an issue for the previous generation Threadripper parts, the new chiplet design has pushed performance to the next level. These new Threadripper processors win on core count, on high IPC, on high frequency, and on fast memory.

If you had told me three years ago that AMD were going to be ruling the roost in the HEDT market with high-performance 32-core processors on a leading-edge manufacturing node, I would have told you to lay off the heavy stuff. But here we are, and AMD isn’t done yet, teasing a 64-core version for next year. This is a crazy time we live in, and I’m glad to be a part of it.

Price no object, the new Threadripper processors are breathing new life into the high-end desktop market. AMD is going to have to work hard to top this one. Intel is going to have to have a shift its design strategy to compete.
i7-9700K, NH-D15, Z390M Pro4, 32 GiB, RX Vega64, Define Mini-C, SSR-850PX, C32HG70+U2407, RK-9000BR, MX518
 
JustAnEngineer
Gold subscriber
Gerbil God
Posts: 19062
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Heart of Dixie

Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:06 am

https://hothardware.com/reviews/amd-ryz ... cpu-review
Hot Hardware's Marco Chiappetta wrote:
With the launch of these 3rd Generation Threadripper 3000 series processors, AMD turns the high-end desktop processor market on its head. For creative professionals that use applications that will leverage the massive core resources available in these CPUs, the latest Threadrippers cannot be touched. Performance is on another level versus virtually all other desktop platforms, thanks to the Zen 2 architecture, massive amounts of cache, and a new chiplet topology that allows every CPU core to connect to main system memory.

These new Threadrippers and the companion TRX40 chipset support PCI Express 4.0 and the platform as a whole offers a massive amount of usable IO. Keep in mind that not only do these Threadrippers offer more usable PCIe lanes than other platforms, but they’re double the bandwidth of PCI Express 3.0 solutions as well.

Intel’s new pricing strategy makes Cascade Lake X the more affordable solution, while 3rd Gen Threadripper is now the premium king-of-the-hill.

In the end, we can’t help but be impressed with what AMD has done with these new 3rd Gen Threadrippers. They are incredibly high performers and offer features (like PCI Express 4.0) not available elsewhere. If you’re a creative professional looking for the most powerful many-core platform out there, look no further.
i7-9700K, NH-D15, Z390M Pro4, 32 GiB, RX Vega64, Define Mini-C, SSR-850PX, C32HG70+U2407, RK-9000BR, MX518
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 53546
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:24 am

I wish I had an excuse (and the budget) to build a system around one of those!
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
JustAnEngineer
Gold subscriber
Gerbil God
Posts: 19062
Joined: Sat Jan 26, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: The Heart of Dixie

Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:10 pm

Threadripper 3000 goes outside the bounds of my computing needs, but maybe it does serve the purpose of making it easier for me to justify a Ryzen R9 3900X or 3950X instead of a 3700X for my next desktop (assuming that I don't hold out for Zen3 next year).

Here's a list with links to three dozen Threadripper 3000 reviews:
https://videocardz.com/83333/amd-ryzen- ... ew-roundup
i7-9700K, NH-D15, Z390M Pro4, 32 GiB, RX Vega64, Define Mini-C, SSR-850PX, C32HG70+U2407, RK-9000BR, MX518
 
blastdoor
Gerbil First Class
Posts: 184
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:12 pm

Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Mon Nov 25, 2019 1:41 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/15044/the-amd-ryzen-threadripper-3960x-and-3970x-review-24-and-32-cores-on-7nm
AnandTech's Dr. Ian Cutress wrote:
I have never used the word ‘bloodbath’ in a review before. It seems messy, violent, and a little bit gruesome. But when we look at the results from the new AMD Threadripper processors, it seems more than appropriate. AMD has scored wins across almost all of our benchmark suite. In anything embarrassingly parallel it rules the roost by a large margin (except for our one AVX-512 benchmark). Single threaded performance trails the high-frequency mainstream parts, but it is still very close. Even in memory sensitive workloads, an issue for the previous generation Threadripper parts, the new chiplet design has pushed performance to the next level. These new Threadripper processors win on core count, on high IPC, on high frequency, and on fast memory.

If you had told me three years ago that AMD were going to be ruling the roost in the HEDT market with high-performance 32-core processors on a leading-edge manufacturing node, I would have told you to lay off the heavy stuff. But here we are, and AMD isn’t done yet, teasing a 64-core version for next year. This is a crazy time we live in, and I’m glad to be a part of it.

Price no object, the new Threadripper processors are breathing new life into the high-end desktop market. AMD is going to have to work hard to top this one. Intel is going to have to have a shift its design strategy to compete.


The AVX-512 thing reminds me so much of the PPC G4 with AltiVec. Literally the only thing the G4 -- and now Cascade Lake -- can win at is code that spends all its time using the SIMD unit.

The performance gains over last year's TR are pretty impressive, too. I'm tempted to see if I can sell my 2990wx system and replace it with the new 32 core TR....
 
Krogoth
Gerbil Elder
Posts: 5838
Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2003 3:20 pm
Location: somewhere on Core Prime
Contact:

Re: Zen 2 Threadripper talk and news (rumors too)

Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:38 am

It is Sandy-Bridge-E all over again. A platform that suits the needs for majority of the HEDT userbase while having the potential for a long-shelf life. SB-E rigs only started to show their age around the time Zen made its official debut.
Gigabyte Z390 AORUS-PRO Coffee Lake R 9700K, 2x8GiB of G.Skill DDR4-3600, Sapphire RX Vega 64, Corsair CX-750M V2 and Fractal Define R4 (W)
Ivy Bridge 3570K, 2x4GiB of G.Skill RIPSAW DDR3-1600, Gigabyte Z77X-UD3H, Corsair CX-750M V2, and PC-7B

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests
GZIP: On