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just brew it!
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Re: 5 nm chips in 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:02 am

JustAnEngineer wrote:

3nm is only ~15 silicon atoms. Really gotta wonder what that's going to mean for yields and long-term reliability.
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Re: 5 nm chips in 2020

Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:53 pm

just brew it! wrote:
JustAnEngineer wrote:

3nm is only ~15 silicon atoms. Really gotta wonder what that's going to mean for yields and long-term reliability.


Or maybe they mean "3nm" rather than 3nm.
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Re: 5 nm chips in 2020

Wed Apr 15, 2020 2:19 pm

blastdoor wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
JustAnEngineer wrote:

3nm is only ~15 silicon atoms. Really gotta wonder what that's going to mean for yields and long-term reliability.


Or maybe they mean "3nm" rather than 3nm.


Or "3nm". The finer the process, the larger the scare quotes need to be.
 
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Re: 5 nm chips in 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 4:55 am

https://www.techpowerup.com/265843/huaw ... l-5nm-node
AMD's demand for TSMC is expected to be at least 20,000 12-inch wafers per month
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Re: 5 nm chips in 2020

Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:55 am

JustAnEngineer wrote:
https://www.techpowerup.com/265843/huaweis-loss-amds-gain-tsmc-develops-special-5nm-node
AMD's demand for TSMC is expected to be at least 20,000 12-inch wafers per month


Groovy.
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Re: 5 nm chips in 2020

Sun Apr 19, 2020 3:55 pm

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Re: 5 nm chips in 2020

Mon Apr 20, 2020 8:54 am

JustAnEngineer wrote:


Volume production second half of 2022...

The analogy in the article about a P4 on a pin head is mind expanding....

I wonder if this will be one of the technologies that enables AR glasses that are sufficiently stylish to be sold by Apple
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Re: 5 nm chips in 2020

Fri Apr 24, 2020 1:30 pm

Oh come on now...
https://www.techpowerup.com/266231/digi ... ocess-node
TSMC has started working on their 2 nm process.
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Re: 5 nm chips in 2020

Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:13 am

JustAnEngineer wrote:
Oh come on now...
https://www.techpowerup.com/266231/digi ... ocess-node
TSMC has started working on their 2 nm process.

Wasn’t TSMC 16nm essentially 20nm with finfet? Maybe this is 3nm with some other change that doesn’t actually affect density
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Re: 5 nm chips in 2020

Sat Apr 25, 2020 1:24 pm

It seems that the XXnm rating is as much marketing as the Ghz race was a few years back.

While Intel dropped the ball big time their 10mn process it is similar in scaling to TSMC 7mn but slightly behind for what limited amount they are shipping. If Intel's 7mn pans out it is supposed to be similar but slightly ahead of TSMC 5mn. I saw a graphic showing Intel's process vs TSMC over time starting at, i think, 22mn for Intel but I just can't find it anymore and it was created recently.
 
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Re: 5 nm chips in 2020

Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:40 pm

tfp wrote:
It seems that the XXnm rating is as much marketing as the Ghz race was a few years back.

Not even close. This goes back to the stereo WPC/THD spec wars fought in the pages of Playboy and Penthouse starting in the early-mid '70s.
What we have today is way too much pluribus and not enough unum.
 
just brew it!
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Re: 5 nm chips in 2020

Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:44 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
tfp wrote:
It seems that the XXnm rating is as much marketing as the Ghz race was a few years back.

Not even close. This goes back to the stereo WPC/THD spec wars fought in the pages of Playboy and Penthouse starting in the early-mid '70s.

"I'm reading it for the stereo equipment reviews, honest!"
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Re: 5 nm chips in 2020

Sat Apr 25, 2020 3:56 pm

Deer camp has a well-curated collection from that era.
What we have today is way too much pluribus and not enough unum.
 
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Re: 5 nm chips in 2020

Sat Apr 25, 2020 4:17 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
Deer camp has a well-curated collection from that era.


Well this is something of an unexpected tangent...
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Re: 5 nm chips in 2020

Sat Apr 25, 2020 5:48 pm

For that time the ad agencies knew where to place their ads for maximum coverage and effect. Same thing happens today, just in different channels.
What we have today is way too much pluribus and not enough unum.
 
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Re: 5 nm chips in 2020

Sat Apr 25, 2020 7:48 pm

Captain Ned wrote:
tfp wrote:
It seems that the XXnm rating is as much marketing as the Ghz race was a few years back.

Not even close. This goes back to the stereo WPC/THD spec wars fought in the pages of Playboy and Penthouse starting in the early-mid '70s.


So what you're saying we are getting less dropping to one X or maybe just seeing less but it's all there?
 
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Re: 5 nm chips in 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 11:24 am

https://www.techpowerup.com/266656/tsmc ... -5nm-chips
TSMC has reportedly secured orders from NVIDIA for chips based on its 7 nm and 5 nm silicon fabrication nodes. Samsung is commencing 5 nm EUV mass production within Q2-2020, and NVIDIA is expected to be one of its customers. Splitting manufacturing between TSMC and Samsung would help NVIDIA disperse any yield issue arriving from either foundry's EUV node, and give it greater bargaining power with both.
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Re: 5 nm chips in 2020

Tue May 05, 2020 12:11 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
https://www.techpowerup.com/266656/tsmc-secures-orders-from-nvidia-for-7nm-and-5nm-chips
TSMC has reportedly secured orders from NVIDIA for chips based on its 7 nm and 5 nm silicon fabrication nodes. Samsung is commencing 5 nm EUV mass production within Q2-2020, and NVIDIA is expected to be one of its customers. Splitting manufacturing between TSMC and Samsung would help NVIDIA disperse any yield issue arriving from either foundry's EUV node, and give it greater bargaining power with both.


Maybe... but doesn't it also increase fixed costs?

Also, what if one process ends up being a bit better than the other -- then consumers have to worry about which GPUs are the "good" ones.

Or maybe different products are being made on the different nodes, but if so, then that means no advances in terms of diversifying yield risk.
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Re: 5 nm chips in 2020

Tue May 12, 2020 5:50 am

https://wccftech.com/tsmc-5nm-products- ... el-xe-gpu/
For 2021: AMD Zen 4 CPUs, RDNA3 GPUs, NVIDIA Hopper and potentially an ‘Intel Xe’ GPU
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Re: 5 nm chips in 2020

Wed May 13, 2020 9:43 am

JustAnEngineer wrote:
https://wccftech.com/tsmc-5nm-products-leaked-amd-zen-4-cpus-rdna3-gpus-nvidia-hopper-and-potentially-an-intel-xe-gpu/
For 2021: AMD Zen 4 CPUs, RDNA3 GPUs, NVIDIA Hopper and potentially an ‘Intel Xe’ GPU


2021? Or "2021-2022"?

From various articles, I thought we'd see Zen 3 in 2020 and Zen 4 in early 2022, with 2021 being an opportunity for reflection.
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Re: 5 nm chips in 2020

Thu May 14, 2020 8:35 pm

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Re: 5 nm chips in 2020

Sun Aug 30, 2020 5:53 am

https://www.anandtech.com/show/16028/be ... tes-for-n5
Defect rates for TSMC's 5 nm process have already reached a good level as they ramped high volume manufacturing.for Apple.
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Re: 5 nm chips in 2020

Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:53 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/16028/better-yield-on-5nm-than-7nm-tsmc-update-on-defect-rates-for-n5
Defect rates for TSMC's 5 nm process have already reached a good level as they ramped high volume manufacturing.for Apple.

Isn't 5nm considered the limit for Silicon? If I recall rightly, a research company only managed to reach 3nm in first place due to creating a sort of hybrid of both Silicon and Carbon Nanotubes.
 
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Re: 5 nm chips in 2020

Fri Sep 04, 2020 12:59 am

TSMC 5nm is supposed to be equivalent to Intel 7nm. I dont think the nm label means what it used to mean.

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