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jmc2
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3950x temps high, thoughts

Thu Jan 30, 2020 2:19 pm

Finally got my 3950x AM4 put together and can see why AMD says water cool it.
It maxes out at 81-82C. with the top Noctua AM4 cooler.

Edit...NOCTUA NH-D15 chromax.Black, 140mm Dual-Tower CPU Cooler

My 1950x Threadripper overclocked to 3900 Ghz maxes out at 69-70C.
And this is with a carbon fiber (Carbonaut) pad not paste.
12-13C degrees cooler then the 3950x.

I was thinking I had a bad mount or uneven heatspreader until I googled it and saw 80s on air was common.
Then it popped into my head about the die size.
If I got the figures correct the Threadripper has 2.4 times the surface area to transfer heat.
The 3950x has 40% of that surface area.

I tried a pad with the 3950x and when I removed it to apply Kryonaut paste. You could tell where there was good contact with the heatspreader. Looked like 80% of the center like you would want. The edges did not show the same contact.

When I installed the latest Ryzen Master it had something about 95C. Think it said 95C was the MAX temp for a Ryzen.
So I'm 13 degrees below that.(82C).

I'm not going to try to get into water cooling. I think it is all down to the small surface transfer area.
I was not worried about the watts because the 1950x was ok, Never thought about the smaller die size.

Thought welcome,
Last edited by jmc2 on Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.
 
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Re: 3950x temps high, thoughts

Thu Jan 30, 2020 3:18 pm

https://www.amazon.com/Enermax-Liqmax-I ... 07YFB6X2B/

Better get that just to be on the safe side. High temperatures will slowly degrade transistor performance.

https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/pc-operat ... s-hot-hot/

So how hot can a CPU get? Generally, your processor shouldn’t run at anything greater than 75°C/167°F.
 
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Re: 3950x temps high, thoughts

Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:05 pm

Perfectly fine. My 3900X gets to mid 70s even with custom water-cooling. I wouldn't even begin to worry below 90 C.
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thecoldanddarkone
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Re: 3950x temps high, thoughts

Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:11 pm

It should be fine.

However - When you mean load, what do you mean?

I assume your talking about something like a d15?
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jmc2
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Re: 3950x temps high, thoughts

Thu Jan 30, 2020 6:37 pm

thecoldanddarkone wrote:
It should be fine.

However - When you mean load, what do you mean?

I assume your talking about something like a d15?


I just run CPUZ stress test. It heats it up quickly.
NOCTUA NH-D15 chromax.Black, 140mm Dual-Tower CPU Cooler

Threads leaning toward 80C being ok(I hope).

Seems like my low 80s C may be normal for a 3950x. I'm just not use to any thing running this hot.
Still reading up on it.

Thanks
 
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Re: 3950x temps high, thoughts

Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:19 pm

jmc2 wrote:
thecoldanddarkone wrote:
It should be fine.

However - When you mean load, what do you mean?

I assume your talking about something like a d15?


I just run CPUZ stress test. It heats it up quickly.
NOCTUA NH-D15 chromax.Black, 140mm Dual-Tower CPU Cooler

Threads leaning toward 80C being ok(I hope).

Seems like my low 80s C may be normal for a 3950x. I'm just not use to any thing running this hot.
Still reading up on it.

Thanks


Because of how dense the processor die's are, they are going to run hot. I'll be honest it does seem a bit warm for stock. I run about 72 on cpu-z on my 3900x. D15 single fan setup.

Fan curves can account for some of it though.

one more edit

Stock of avx2 beta?
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jmc2
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Re: 3950x temps high, thoughts

Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:29 am

thecoldanddarkone wrote:
jmc2 wrote:
thecoldanddarkone wrote:

I just run CPUZ stress test. It heats it up quickly.
NOCTUA NH-D15 chromax.Black, 140mm Dual-Tower CPU Cooler
Threads leaning toward 80C being ok(I hope).
Seems like my low 80s C may be normal for a 3950x. I'm just not use to any thing running this hot.
Still reading up on it.Thanks


Because of how dense the processor die's are, they are going to run hot. I'll be honest it does seem a bit warm for stock. I run about 72 on cpu-z on my 3900x. D15 single fan setup.
Fan curves can account for some of it though.
one more edit
Stock of avx2 beta?


EDIT... Just realized I don't know your ambient temp. Mine is 28C.

Thank you, your results really bring my temps into question as in "my setup has a problem."
Because from what I've seen online, due to the extreme binning of the 3950x chips it uses LESS power then your 3900x.

So with a CPUZ Stress Test an "on average" higher power 3900x chip hits 72C with a single fan
while both of us are on D15s and my 3950x with 2000 to 3000 RPM fans hits 82C.
Yep, I clearly have a problem here...Thanks again!

I really don't want to get into lapping. Saw a Gamer Nexus video where his very expensive really high core cpu "just" had a bad heat spreader.
He took it to a famous overclocker (Vince?) and had it lapped flat on a spinning metal device...big improvement in temps!

Think I'm going play with reseating the heatsink a few more times.
If it is a fixable seating problem then it should be very obvious if I finally get it right.

I'm not sure what this is..."Stock of avx2 beta?" ?
Last edited by jmc2 on Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: 3950x temps high, thoughts

Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:42 am

jmc2 wrote:
Think I'm going play with reseating the heatsink a few more times.
If it is a fixable seating problem then it should be very obvious if I finally get it right.

My i7-3770 was going higher than 80 degrees celsius in stress testing the first time I booted it up. After reseating the heatsink, the difference was like night and day. I don't remember exactly but I think the temperature dropped like 20-25 degrees.
 
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Re: 3950x temps high, thoughts

Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:44 am

If your head spreader isn't 100% flat, this could be a case where high-end thermal compound could make a meaningful difference. Edit: Oh, looks like you already tried better thermal compound...

It is also possible that the thermal sensor is just reading high.
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Re: 3950x temps high, thoughts

Fri Jan 31, 2020 9:46 am

Igor_Kavinski wrote:
jmc2 wrote:
Think I'm going play with reseating the heatsink a few more times.
If it is a fixable seating problem then it should be very obvious if I finally get it right.

My i7-3770 was going higher than 80 degrees celsius in stress testing the first time I booted it up. After reseating the heatsink, the difference was like night and day. I don't remember exactly but I think the temperature dropped like 20-25 degrees.

A 20-25 degree difference sounds like bad thermal compound application or an incorrectly mounted HSF. Hey, it happens...
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thecoldanddarkone
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Re: 3950x temps high, thoughts

Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:36 am

jmc2 wrote:
thecoldanddarkone wrote:
jmc2 wrote:
I just run CPUZ stress test. It heats it up quickly.
NOCTUA NH-D15 chromax.Black, 140mm Dual-Tower CPU Cooler
Threads leaning toward 80C being ok(I hope).
Seems like my low 80s C may be normal for a 3950x. I'm just not use to any thing running this hot.
Still reading up on it.Thanks


Because of how dense the processor die's are, they are going to run hot. I'll be honest it does seem a bit warm for stock. I run about 72 on cpu-z on my 3900x. D15 single fan setup.
Fan curves can account for some of it though.
one more edit
Stock of avx2 beta?


EDIT... Just realized I don't know your ambient temp. Mine is 28C.

Thank you, your results really bring my temps into question as in "my setup has a problem."
Because from what I've seen online, due to the extreme binning of the 3950x chips it uses LESS power then your 3900x.

So with a CPUZ Stress Test an "on average" higher power 3900x chip hits 72C with a single fan
while both of us are on D15s and my 3950x with 2000 to 3000 RPM fans hits 82C.
Yep, I clearly have a problem here...Thanks again!

I really don't want to get into lapping. Saw a Gamer Nexus video where his very expensive really high core cpu "just" had a bad heat spreader.
He took it to a famous overclocker (Vince?) and had it lapped flat on a spinning metal device...big improvement in temps!

Think I'm going play with reseating the heatsink a few more times.
If it is a fixable seating problem then it should be very obvious if I finally get it right.

I'm not sure what this is..."Stock of avx2 beta?" ?


At your ambient it seems in line. My ambient is about 22c.

Also I covered the entire heat spreader, since I didn't know where the dies were.
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jmc2
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Re: 3950x temps high, thoughts

Sat Feb 01, 2020 5:37 am

thecoldanddarkone wrote:
jmc2 wrote:
thecoldanddarkone wrote:
Because of how dense the processor die's are, they are going to run hot. I'll be honest it does seem a bit warm for stock. I run about 72 on cpu-z on my 3900x. D15 single fan setup.


EDIT... Just realized I don't know your ambient temp. Mine is 28C.


At your ambient it seems in line. My ambient is about 22c.
Also I covered the entire heat spreader, since I didn't know where the dies were.


Wow, 6C cooler ambient. Thank you so much. Was stressing over that "10C" difference...all good now!

I going to stay "Stock" except still going to try to "undervolt". It is not my main system so if stuff happens it happens.

Hmm, 22C is 71F... I would be so cold. I need my 28C/82F temps. Brrr.

Noctua FAQ...
Furthermore, Ryzen 3000 CPUs are using the rated temperature headroom (up to 95°C) quite aggressively in order to reach higher boost clocks. As a result, it is absolutely no problem and not alarming if the processor runs into this temperature limit. The clock speed and supply voltage will be adjusted automatically by the processor itself in order to remain within AMD’s specifications and to prevent overheating.

Due to the higher heat density, higher thermal limits and more aggressive boost clock usage, it is perfectly normal that Ryzen 3000 CPUs are reaching higher temperatures than previous generation Ryzen CPUs with the same TDP rating. Higher CPU temperatures are normal for Ryzen 3000 processors and not a sign of that there is anything wrong with the CPU cooler.
 
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Re: 3950x temps high, thoughts

Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:20 am

jmc2 wrote:
Noctua FAQ...
Furthermore, Ryzen 3000 CPUs are using the rated temperature headroom (up to 95°C) quite aggressively in order to reach higher boost clocks. As a result, it is absolutely no problem and not alarming if the processor runs into this temperature limit. The clock speed and supply voltage will be adjusted automatically by the processor itself in order to remain within AMD’s specifications and to prevent overheating.

Due to the higher heat density, higher thermal limits and more aggressive boost clock usage, it is perfectly normal that Ryzen 3000 CPUs are reaching higher temperatures than previous generation Ryzen CPUs with the same TDP rating. Higher CPU temperatures are normal for Ryzen 3000 processors and not a sign of that there is anything wrong with the CPU cooler.


AMD is using silicon AFAIK so it's subject to the same limitations as current and previous generation silicon based CPUs which is, don't run the CPU at consistently high temperatures. Remember that Intel is offering just a one year warranty for its i9-9900KS. Granted, it's on 14nm but things gets worse as we go lower on the nm scale, not better. It always starts with a little bit of instability and goes downhill from there. Noctua better be ready for a class action suit if suddenly lots of their users start losing their Ryzens.

https://superuser.com/questions/749146/ ... m-cpu-temp
 
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Re: 3950x temps high, thoughts

Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:08 am

It isn't Noctua's fault if the CPU fails to throttle properly when it starts to overheat. That's on AMD.
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Re: 3950x temps high, thoughts

Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:23 am

just brew it! wrote:
It isn't Noctua's fault if the CPU fails to throttle properly when it starts to overheat. That's on AMD.


I'm not talking about failure due to overheating. I'm talking about the gradual deterioration of silicon circuits due to consistently high operating temperatures. Noctua can link to an AMD FAQ about the high temperatures and put the onus on AMD but saying these things without backing them up from an official source is just inviting legal trouble.
 
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Re: 3950x temps high, thoughts

Sat Feb 01, 2020 11:49 am

Igor_Kavinski wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
It isn't Noctua's fault if the CPU fails to throttle properly when it starts to overheat. That's on AMD.

I'm not talking about failure due to overheating. I'm talking about the gradual deterioration of silicon circuits due to consistently high operating temperatures. Noctua can link to an AMD FAQ about the high temperatures and put the onus on AMD but saying these things without backing them up from an official source is just inviting legal trouble.

I disagree. If the CPU is getting hot enough that it is deteriorating to the point where it is not meeting specs, that IS on AMD and their thermal throttling implementation. The whole point of Precision Boost is that the CPU is supposed to ramp up clocks (and power budget) based on available cooling performance.

OTOH, if the CPU is still meeting specs then there's no grounds for "legal trouble".
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Re: 3950x temps high, thoughts

Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:01 pm

just brew it! wrote:
I disagree. If the CPU is getting hot enough that it is deteriorating to the point where it is not meeting specs, that IS on AMD and their thermal throttling implementation. The whole point of Precision Boost is that the CPU is supposed to ramp up clocks (and power budget) based on available cooling performance.

OTOH, if the CPU is still meeting specs then there's no grounds for "legal trouble".


My beef is with Noctua pretending to be knowledgeable about the CPU's thermal behavior like they engineered it themselves. If AMD says 80+ degrees celsius temperatures under normal operation are perfectly fine on their brand spanking new CPUs for an extended period of time, then fine. But I don't see that anywhere.
 
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Re: 3950x temps high, thoughts

Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:02 pm

If it isn't "fine" the CPU should throttle.
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Re: 3950x temps high, thoughts

Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:20 pm

https://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/ ... review/10/

As per that review, AMD recommends a liquid cooler. And even then they got 74C at 24C ambient. So AMD is gonna simply bow out by saying, "Hey, we didn't tell you to cool this beast THAT way!". And I hate to sound anal, but Noctua is misleading its customers just to sell them their product.

Read this please: https://community.amd.com/thread/246107

He got his temps down to 60C at 100%.
 
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Re: 3950x temps high, thoughts

Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:29 pm

Igor_Kavinski wrote:
https://www.kitguru.net/components/cpu/luke-hill/amd-ryzen-9-3950x-cpu-review/10/

As per that review, AMD recommends a liquid cooler. And even then they got 74C at 24C ambient. So AMD is gonna simply bow out by saying, "Hey, we didn't tell you to cool this beast THAT way!". And I hate to sound anal, but Noctua is misleading its customers just to sell them their product.

Read this please: https://community.amd.com/thread/246107

He got his temps down to 60C at 100%.


Without more information we don't know the conditions of 60c. Including the amount of runs. Was it looped, was it ran once? etc. 60c ran once doesn't say much.

That said, cpu-z bench is a couple c higher, cinebench r20 is pretty short and even looped has dead spots.

I seriously doubt if I pull out my water cooling I'd drop 14c off my d15 and it's a custom built.
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Re: 3950x temps high, thoughts

Sun Feb 02, 2020 6:16 am

thecoldanddarkone wrote:
I seriously doubt if I pull out my water cooling I'd drop 14c off my d15 and it's a custom built.


You don't really need to since your temps are already within reasonable range but it doesn't hurt to try, does it?
 
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Re: 3950x temps high, thoughts

Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:56 am

Igor_Kavinski wrote:
thecoldanddarkone wrote:
I seriously doubt if I pull out my water cooling I'd drop 14c off my d15 and it's a custom built.

You don't really need to since your temps are already within reasonable range but it doesn't hurt to try, does it?

If his temps are fine as-is it seems like a case of "if it ain't broke, don't f*ck with it".
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Re: 3950x temps high, thoughts

Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:58 am

just brew it! wrote:
If his temps are fine as-is it seems like a case of "if it ain't broke, don't f*ck with it".

Some people are quite partial to f*cking :P
 
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Re: 3950x temps high, thoughts

Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:47 am

Guess it depends on where you fall on the "tweaking is an end unto itself" vs. "tweaking is a means to an end" spectrum. :wink:

(I used to be closer to the former, these days I'm more in the latter camp.)
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Re: 3950x temps high, thoughts

Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:11 am

Igor_Kavinski wrote:
thecoldanddarkone wrote:
I seriously doubt if I pull out my water cooling I'd drop 14c off my d15 and it's a custom built.


You don't really need to since your temps are already within reasonable range but it doesn't hurt to try, does it?

There's nothing to gain. You're making him worry about a complete non-issue.
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Re: 3950x temps high, thoughts

Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:31 am

Waco wrote:
Igor_Kavinski wrote:
thecoldanddarkone wrote:
I seriously doubt if I pull out my water cooling I'd drop 14c off my d15 and it's a custom built.

You don't really need to since your temps are already within reasonable range but it doesn't hurt to try, does it?

There's nothing to gain. You're making him worry about a complete non-issue.

...and there's always at least a small risk that it WILL hurt to try. Even if you're an experienced system builder, screwups happen.
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Re: 3950x temps high, thoughts

Sun Feb 02, 2020 10:41 am

just brew it! wrote:
...and there's always at least a small risk that it WILL hurt to try. Even if you're an experienced system builder, screwups happen.


https://linustechtips.com/main/topic/52 ... r-cooling/
https://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/c ... r_cooling/
 
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Re: 3950x temps high, thoughts

Sun Feb 02, 2020 9:12 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Waco wrote:
Igor_Kavinski wrote:
You don't really need to since your temps are already within reasonable range but it doesn't hurt to try, does it?

There's nothing to gain. You're making him worry about a complete non-issue.

...and there's always at least a small risk that it WILL hurt to try. Even if you're an experienced system builder, screwups happen.


I will probably decline. It would require me furnishing my own hardware (I did not purchase the am4 kit) or buy the am4 kit.

The entire reason I bought a d15 is so that I wouldn't have to water cool while having good cooling. lol
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Re: 3950x temps high, thoughts

Sun Feb 23, 2020 4:31 pm

Well, finally spent the morning testing volts/speed/temps and found that it is the Single Core Boost and it's 1.5v that makes my cpu bench in the 80sC.

Once you limit the cpu voltage at all you lose that extreme temp problem.(and the single core boost-Good riddance)

CPUZ 1.91 bench now hits 81C/28Ambient (5C drop) instead of (85C/27Ambient at Stock). Stock results were 11007/532. At my 4.25Ghz (1.28125v) manual setting I get 11498/525.
4.3Ghz @1.3v has a single core of 531(basically equal) and 82C but I'm staying out of the 80Cs if I can.

It was interesting watching Cinebench20 run a little longer before crash each time I upped the voltage. So far 1.28125v is good enough.

Was surprised to see VideoReDo6 using 50% of my cpu with a X264 dvd.mpg encode on Pass 2 (pass1-25%).
Did two of those and it set there at 98-100%.
And there I was thinking I finally had plenty of cpu to go around. Of course with HEVC I do...it uses a whole 16% Pass1 and Pass2.

Seems that HIGH bitrate will make it eat your cpu tho...less then 1fps. Thank goodness I only experiment with that.

I'm guessing that is windows that can make encoding fps vary a LOT. One VRD double run did 111,114fps and the next did 157,159fps. Same test file each time.

So mostly high 70sC now(encoding) instead of mid 80sC and not seeing those 1.48-1.5 volts on my cpu any more. YAY.
 
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Re: 3950x temps high, thoughts

Mon Feb 24, 2020 12:54 pm

If you weren't using Ryzen Master to monitor those voltages, they're likely completely bogus (and even then, the measurements are pretty suspect given how quickly Zen 2 chips change state).

Have you done any long-term stability tests? Passing Cinebench is nowhere near real stability. I've had my rig encoding for 4 days straight (100% load) a few times on stock settings (PBO+AOC) without any issues whatsoever.
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