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JustAnEngineer
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Intel Alder Lake rumors and news

Tue May 05, 2020 11:35 am

https://videocardz.com/newz/intel-alder ... 700-socket
The interesting rumor is that the new LGA1700 socket would support up to 3 generations of Intel Core processors. This would be a change for Intel, as the company is known for a rather short socket lifespan. The pin layout changes are often considered unnecessary and unclear to customers.
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Re: Intel Alder Lake rumors and news

Tue May 05, 2020 1:12 pm

Nice to have a longer socket life.
 
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Re: Intel Alder Lake rumors and news

Tue May 05, 2020 4:37 pm

Oh, Intel can still split that into LGA1700 v1 and LGA1700 v2, with universal two-way incompatibility between them.
 
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Re: Intel Alder Lake rumors and news

Tue May 05, 2020 4:38 pm

Sure, the *socket* will be carried forward, but the pins will be used differently so you'll need a new motherboard anyway.
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JustAnEngineer
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Re: Intel Alder Lake rumors and news

Sat May 16, 2020 8:50 am

https://wccftech.com/intel-alder-lake-s ... tdp-rumor/
Rumors and speculation abound as we look forward eagerly to Intel's first post-14nm desktop CPUs.
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blastdoor
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Re: Intel Alder Lake rumors and news

Wed May 20, 2020 8:51 am

Late 2021 or 2022 -- that's a ways out there. So Alder Lake will be competing with Zen 4. Hmm.

Does the 8 big + 8 little config imply the end of hyper threading?
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Re: Intel Alder Lake rumors and news

Thu May 21, 2020 7:25 pm

blastdoor wrote:
Does the 8 big + 8 little config imply the end of hyper threading?

I doubt it - hyperthreading adds real performance in addition to saving power with aggressive power saving profiles.
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Re: Intel Alder Lake rumors and news

Sat May 23, 2020 7:20 am

Waco wrote:
blastdoor wrote:
Does the 8 big + 8 little config imply the end of hyper threading?

I doubt it - hyperthreading adds real performance in addition to saving power with aggressive power saving profiles.


Apparently there’s an argument that hyperthreading is inherently unsafe https://www.tomshardware.com/news/disab ... 37690.html
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Re: Intel Alder Lake rumors and news

Sat May 23, 2020 7:47 am

blastdoor wrote:
Waco wrote:
blastdoor wrote:
Does the 8 big + 8 little config imply the end of hyper threading?

I doubt it - hyperthreading adds real performance in addition to saving power with aggressive power saving profiles.

Apparently there’s an argument that hyperthreading is inherently unsafe https://www.tomshardware.com/news/disab ... 37690.html

Yes, it can potentially make make certain types of side channel attacks easier to exploit. But so do many of the other optimization techniques used in modern CPUs. And at the end of the day, many of these scenarios only REALLY matter if you're a hosting provider, since there's potential for information leakage from one user to another.
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blastdoor
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Re: Intel Alder Lake rumors and news

Wed Jul 15, 2020 7:49 pm

https://wccftech.com/intel-alder-lake-s ... -14nm-gpu/

I’m still wondering — why the little cores in a desktop CPU?
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Re: Intel Alder Lake rumors and news

Thu Jul 16, 2020 12:11 am

blastdoor wrote:
https://wccftech.com/intel-alder-lake-s-p-and-m-configurations-leaked-10nm-big-and-small-cores-with-14nm-gpu/

I’m still wondering — why the little cores in a desktop CPU?

TFA wrote:
The presence of small, highly power-efficient cores will allow the company to reduce standby and idle power consumption as well as menial loads (like light browsing etc).


Of course, that is still assuming you don't have like an Outlook or Javascript heavy browser tabs (that Chrome background JS timer throttle can't come soon enough) hogging CPU cycles. Otherwise the big cores will be engaged and the whole thing falls apart somewhat.
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blastdoor
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Re: Intel Alder Lake rumors and news

Thu Jul 16, 2020 2:45 pm

Flying Fox wrote:
blastdoor wrote:
https://wccftech.com/intel-alder-lake-s-p-and-m-configurations-leaked-10nm-big-and-small-cores-with-14nm-gpu/

I’m still wondering — why the little cores in a desktop CPU?

TFA wrote:
The presence of small, highly power-efficient cores will allow the company to reduce standby and idle power consumption as well as menial loads (like light browsing etc).


Of course, that is still assuming you don't have like an Outlook or Javascript heavy browser tabs (that Chrome background JS timer throttle can't come soon enough) hogging CPU cycles. Otherwise the big cores will be engaged and the whole thing falls apart somewhat.


I definitely see the advantage for a laptop, but is that really relevant for a desktop? I guess it's good from an environmental perspective -- less energy used. But is that it?
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Re: Intel Alder Lake rumors and news

Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:11 am

blastdoor wrote:
I definitely see the advantage for a laptop, but is that really relevant for a desktop? I guess it's good from an environmental perspective -- less energy used. But is that it?

The fans may be turned off if only the little cores are engaged. Given the presumably smaller die real estate (relative to the big cores and the rest of the chip, namely the iGPU/caches) they take up, may be a good tradeoff.
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Re: Intel Alder Lake rumors and news

Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:28 am

Less power to get a given task done in an acceptable amount of time is a win.
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blastdoor
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Re: Intel Alder Lake rumors and news

Fri Jul 17, 2020 6:26 am

Flying Fox wrote:
blastdoor wrote:
I definitely see the advantage for a laptop, but is that really relevant for a desktop? I guess it's good from an environmental perspective -- less energy used. But is that it?

The fans may be turned off if only the little cores are engaged. Given the presumably smaller die real estate (relative to the big cores and the rest of the chip, namely the iGPU/caches) they take up, may be a good tradeoff.


Good point — quiet is nice.
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Re: Intel Alder Lake rumors and news

Fri Jul 17, 2020 1:53 pm

Lakefield's power/performance may be pointing to what we may expect from Alder Lake, at least when you are running Windows.
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Re: Intel Alder Lake rumors and news

Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:55 pm

I actually have my doubts that Lakefield is a good comparison to Alder Lake. The info I've seen makes me think Alder Lake's "8 + 8" core layout isn't really for power saving so much, at least not at idle. I think the purpose of the smaller cores in a larger desktop chip is more likely to be an efficient way to boost multi-threading performance. Like, 8+8 cores would just be a 16 core that competes vs a 12 core offering. If the small cores can offer half performance for less than half the die space or power consumption it might make sense when running traditionally multi-threaded tasks. It would also explain why you might only see the small cores on higher end offerings. Additionally this could give them a way to keep using their ring bus with higher core counts.

Time will tell I suppose.
 
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Re: Intel Alder Lake rumors and news

Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:38 pm

Xolore wrote:
I actually have my doubts that Lakefield is a good comparison to Alder Lake. The info I've seen makes me think Alder Lake's "8 + 8" core layout isn't really for power saving so much, at least not at idle. I think the purpose of the smaller cores in a larger desktop chip is more likely to be an efficient way to boost multi-threading performance. Like, 8+8 cores would just be a 16 core that competes vs a 12 core offering. If the small cores can offer half performance for less than half the die space or power consumption it might make sense when running traditionally multi-threaded tasks. It would also explain why you might only see the small cores on higher end offerings. Additionally this could give them a way to keep using their ring bus with higher core counts.

It won't be half because from what I can tell those small cores should be *mont architecture ones. So think Atom (yes, it is that bad).
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