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morphine
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Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:09 pm

So I plan to retire my very venerable and seaworthy Core 2 Duo E6400 @ 3.1Ghz. It has served me very well for the better part of 4 years but the time has come to move on.

I'm a web programmer, so I don't have much need for raw CPU power (beyond a certain point anyway). Which means, of course, that it's all for games!

So from looking at TR's reviews, I see that the i5s are unmatched in price/performance, and I'm fairly set on a Core i5 760 (2.8Ghz instead of 2.66 like the 750), which I "expect" to overclock to somewhere around 4Ghz on aircooling and minimum possible fuss. Apart from supporting the underdog, any compelling reason why I should go with a Phenom instead, and if so, which one?
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JustAnEngineer
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Re: Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:15 pm

As you're well aware, the Core i5-750 and Core i5-760 are quad-core Lynnfield processors without hyperthreading. The Core i5-6xx and Core i3-5xx processors are dual-core Clarkdale processors with hyperthreading. Core i7-860, Core i7-870 and Core i7-875K are quad-core Lynnfield processors with hyperthreading. All of these processors can be installed in the LGA1156 socket. There are other Core i5 and Core i7 processors that work with other sockets. Marketing weasels are dedicated to trying to confuse the consumer.
Last edited by JustAnEngineer on Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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morphine
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Re: Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:31 pm

JustAnEngineer wrote:
Core i7-860, Core i7-870 and Core i7-875K [...] can be installed in the LGA1156 socket.

Now that's something I didn't know. I thought that Core i7 specifically meant socket 1366, thanks!

Unforunately, I've checked prices for an i7 860 and they're too expensive compared to the i5 760. We're talking ~260€ vs ~190€, and the benchmarks show that as far as games are concerned, former is only marginally faster.
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Fighterpilot
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Re: Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:10 pm

The Core i7 processors do overclock pretty well but at 4GHz they need some pretty good cooling as temps tend to rise sharply over 3.6GHz.
You will find 4GHz is getting towards the ragged edge of its ability on air with a decent voltage increase involved.
The i7 860 will go there but it's not as simple as turning up the Conroe.
 
potatochobit
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Re: Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:18 pm

I wouldnt say its the best value CPU but if you dont plan to encode any videos its a good buy
 
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Re: Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:23 pm

The i5-750 and 760 are the ONLY Intel chips worth buying for these reasons: the i7s are too expensive for the performance gains and the i3s are either too weak or overpriced versus anything from AMD. Period.
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morphine
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Re: Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:42 pm

potatochobit wrote:
I wouldnt say its the best value CPU but if you dont plan to encode any videos its a good buy

Taking prices from Hardwareversand.de
Phenom II X6 1055T - 181.67€
Phenom II X6 1090T - 262.56€

Core i5 760 - 175.89€


I think the AMD motherboards are cheaper, but nevertheless... :)
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morphine
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Re: Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:44 pm

Fighterpilot wrote:
The Core i7 processors do overclock pretty well but at 4GHz they need some pretty good cooling as temps tend to rise sharply over 3.6GHz.
You will find 4GHz is getting towards the ragged edge of its ability on air with a decent voltage increase involved.

Interesting... I don't plan on doing m4d 0v3rcl0ck5, but I do intend to get the most I can out of the CPU. Which basically means "I'm willing to do some fiddling, but that's it". Looks like I'll have to be happy with 3.6 then.
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Re: Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:29 pm

morphine wrote:
Fighterpilot wrote:
The Core i7 processors do overclock pretty well but at 4GHz they need some pretty good cooling as temps tend to rise sharply over 3.6GHz.
You will find 4GHz is getting towards the ragged edge of its ability on air with a decent voltage increase involved.

Interesting... I don't plan on doing m4d 0v3rcl0ck5, but I do intend to get the most I can out of the CPU. Which basically means "I'm willing to do some fiddling, but that's it". Looks like I'll have to be happy with 3.6 then.

Even my shiny new 875K is not supposed to get to 4GHz without some voltage bump (and the consequences). I thought 4GHz would be easy but based on further research it may be trickier than I initially thought.
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FuturePastNow
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Re: Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:12 pm

It looks to me like the i5-760 is just about the best bang-for-the-buck you can get from Intel right now.
 
Fighterpilot
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Re: Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:35 pm

Flying Fox wrote:
morphine wrote:
Fighterpilot wrote:
The Core i7 processors do overclock pretty well but at 4GHz they need some pretty good cooling as temps tend to rise sharply over 3.6GHz.
You will find 4GHz is getting towards the ragged edge of its ability on air with a decent voltage increase involved.

Interesting... I don't plan on doing m4d 0v3rcl0ck5, but I do intend to get the most I can out of the CPU. Which basically means "I'm willing to do some fiddling, but that's it". Looks like I'll have to be happy with 3.6 then.

Even my shiny new 875K is not supposed to get to 4GHz without some voltage bump (and the consequences). I thought 4GHz would be easy but based on further research it may be trickier than I initially thought.

There are some tricky correlations of settings required to overclock these new CPUs.
I achieved very good OC with my E6600 Conroe however the i7860 was a lot more difficult.
The QPI,uncore,CPU frquency and RAM settings are independently adjustable using the p55 chipset along with voltage settings for each.
There are some decent overclocking guides around but it's considerably more difficult than the previous gen Core2 chips.
After a lot of manual tweaking I decided to give the Gigabyte Smart 6 software a try out.
It works seamlessly from within Windows to adjust frequencies and voltages and has proven to be a very decent alternative to manual overclocking.
I currently am running it at the "Twin Turbo" setting of 3.8GHz and it is very fast while keeping temps within an acceptable "summer weather' range.
Although software based OC utilities have been rated fairly lowly amongst enthusiast users until recently,this OC suite seems to work as advertised and I can recomend it.
 
JustAnEngineer
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Re: Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:17 pm

If you're looking at an AMD alternative, consider the Phenom II 955 Black Edition. You'd probably save about 20 euros on an AMD motherboard, too.

Core i5-760: 176 €
Core i7-870: 264 €
Core i7-875K: 310 €
Asus P7P55D-E: 121 €
Gigabyte GA-P55-USB3: 103 €
Gigabyte GA-P55A-UD3: 110 €


Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition: 132 €
Phenom II X4 965 Black Edition: 147 €
Phenom II X6 1055T: 182 €
Phenom II X6 1090T Black Edition: 263 €
Gigabyte GA-870A-UD3: 85 €
Asus M4A87TD Evo: 88 €
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morphine
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Re: Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:23 pm

Hmmm interesting... I see that is base clock is 3.2Ghz. What's the usual overclock?
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Prestige Worldwide
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Re: Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:21 pm

Grab the 760. I picked up a 750 last mont and it's AWESOME. And once you OC it it will be killer for the money. I picked up my 750 for $185 before the 760 came out, pretty stoked on the deal. Grab it and love it!
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Flying Fox
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Re: Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:40 am

At this point I think you just need to get over the fact that this is the end of the road for that platform. Some gerbils seem to value drop-in CPU upgrades a lot.
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morphine
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Re: Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:49 am

Flying Fox wrote:
At this point I think you just need to get over the fact that this is the end of the road for that platform. Some gerbils seem to value drop-in CPU upgrades a lot.

Eh? Replied to the wrong thread? :)
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Re: Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:15 am

riviera74 wrote:
The i5-750 and 760 are the ONLY Intel chips worth buying for these reasons: the i7s are too expensive for the performance gains and the i3s are either too weak or overpriced versus anything from AMD. Period.


Disagree. If you can get the i7 930 for a good price (say, $200 from MicroCenter like I did), it's outstanding and frankly a superior choice in my opinion. The LGA 1366 platform may be more expensive, but its legs are a bit longer, and I know my 930 overclocks like a freaking champ.
 
morphine
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Re: Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:28 am

As nice as that'd be, the cheapest I found them was around 245€ :( . Not only that, but socket 1366 boards *start* at 150€. The price premium for i7 is huge.
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Re: Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Sat Aug 14, 2010 2:59 am

morphine wrote:
Flying Fox wrote:
At this point I think you just need to get over the fact that this is the end of the road for that platform. Some gerbils seem to value drop-in CPU upgrades a lot.

Eh? Replied to the wrong thread? :)

Oops, forgot the set the proper context. :oops: I meant the decision to get the i5 vs a competing AMD solution.
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StuG
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Re: Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Sat Aug 14, 2010 3:17 am

Any of these processors will do well, games don't even require beefy processors that much. Go with any i5 quad-core and you will be happy.
 
morphine
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Re: Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Sat Aug 14, 2010 1:47 pm

Flying Fox wrote:
Oops, forgot the set the proper context. :oops: I meant the decision to get the i5 vs a competing AMD solution.

You were referring to AM3 being on the end-of the road, I presume?
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wibeasley
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Re: Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Sat Aug 14, 2010 2:01 pm

morphine wrote:
Flying Fox wrote:
Oops, forgot the set the proper context. :oops: I meant the decision to get the i5 vs a competing AMD solution.
You were referring to AM3 being on the end-of the road, I presume?
I assume FF meant that the next generation Intel CPUs (ie, Sandy Bridge) will use a different socket than the current 1156 and 1366 sockets. Unless you are willing to wait ~5 months until Intel's next tock (http://techreport.com/discussions.x/19440)?
 
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Re: Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:06 am

wibeasley wrote:
morphine wrote:
Flying Fox wrote:
Oops, forgot the set the proper context. :oops: I meant the decision to get the i5 vs a competing AMD solution.
You were referring to AM3 being on the end-of the road, I presume?
I assume FF meant that the next generation Intel CPUs (ie, Sandy Bridge) will use a different socket than the current 1156 and 1366 sockets. Unless you are willing to wait ~5 months until Intel's next tock (http://techreport.com/discussions.x/19440)?

Yup, that's what I meant. AM3 is not end of the road with Bulldozer being compatible with it. It seems attractive to a fair number of our fellow gerbils.
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morphine
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Re: Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Sun Aug 15, 2010 4:25 pm

That's the only thing bugging me in this upgrade. I know that if I go AM3, it's Bulldozer then end of the road. If I go 1156, probably the same... it sucks upgrading between socket changes.
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wibeasley
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Re: Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:17 pm

FYI from today's shortbread -leaked Intel CPU and SSD roadmap: http://www.electronista.com/articles/10 ... 00gb.ssds/
 
morphine
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Re: Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:27 pm

That 2400 model looks very interesting. Damn you all, now you've left me considering waiting this socket change out.... :)
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Spotpuff
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Re: Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:29 pm

Some (all?) of the Lynnefield chips do not support the new AES instruction set if you are going to be doing full disk encryption with something like TRueCrypt.
 
morphine
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Re: Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Sun Aug 15, 2010 5:31 pm

Point taken, but not really a concern. Even if I was going to do that, with 4 cores, there's plenty to spare for such a background task, even without the specialized AES stuff.
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Fighterpilot
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Re: Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Mon Aug 16, 2010 12:52 am

Forget about socket longevity,when you replace your CPU get a new mobo/platform.
Putting a new CPU into a 3 year old mainboard can be problematic even if it does support the new chip.
Witness the hoohah made over the Conroe chips,yes they were backwards compatible with some boards but the introduction of low voltage requirements for C2D made them an unsatisfactory alternative to the new gen boards that were designed specifically to support the new circuitry.
Therefore socket upgradability in that case was not a good reason to have originally bought it.
 
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Re: Any thoughts before I upgrade to an i5 760?

Mon Aug 16, 2010 2:24 am

morphine wrote:
That's the only thing bugging me in this upgrade. I know that if I go AM3, it's Bulldozer then end of the road. If I go 1156, probably the same... it sucks upgrading between socket changes.
Actually for 1156 it is this one and that is it, no more. So AMD you get at least one more step.

Spotpuff wrote:
Some (all?) of the Lynnefield chips do not support the new AES instruction set if you are going to be doing full disk encryption with something like TRueCrypt.
As stated by others in the comments about the news item on the front page about TC using AES instructions, it is hardly noticeable even without hardware instructions. I see the thing thing. So the advantages are overblown here IMO.

Fighterpilot wrote:
Witness the hoohah made over the Conroe chips,yes they were backwards compatible with some boards but the introduction of low voltage requirements for C2D made them an unsatisfactory alternative to the new gen boards that were designed specifically to support the new circuitry.
Because it is still the Intel side. The AMD side has been pretty good in terms of socket+platform stability. One of the advantages for the AMD side.
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