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Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:59 pm
by whm1974
I'm posting this here as it deals with programming and to see it other posters here know anything about this or actually have any experience dealing with this.

As you some of know I'm making an effort to learning the C Programming language and it may be awhile before I have to even worry about this, But I'm wondering if I do get good enough to write short and simple programs that other people find useful and become popular or even write short 100 pages or less documentation that is also useful and popular, if Social Security will come back and kick me off Disability saying that I'm capable of work full time even through realistically I still may not be.

Don't get me wrong. It would great if doing this could lead to full employment making more money then I currently getting. But I have no clue if doing this or picking up new skills in the process would be possible as this will take a long time and that is not even factoring the time needed to get useful experience.

I'm started this project due to having episodes off and on with my Major Depression and having very strong feelings lately that I have wasted my life. This is something to keep me focused and preventing me from falling into deeper depressive state and aid in my recovery. Feeling that you are worthless is a very unpleasant experience.

Sorry about the long post and any thoughts about this I would be thankful for.

Re: Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:05 pm
by chuckula
I would recommend not asking for legal advice on TR's forum.
Talk to a real lawyer instead.

Re: Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:12 pm
by whm1974
chuckula wrote:
I would recommend not asking for legal advice on TR's forum.
Talk to a real lawyer instead.

That is a good advice but I'm wondering if anyone had any experience with this even indirectly.

Re: Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:21 pm
by Vhalidictes
whm1974, I'm struggling to think of an online forum help section of any site that would reply with anything other than "talk to a lawyer".

I frequent another forum where even the posters who are practicing lawyers/doctors are legally unable to give advice over the Internet. Basically, anyone who could help you, won't or more likely can't.

As far as advice from random Internet posters - you get what you pay for.

Re: Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:25 pm
by whm1974
Vhalidictes wrote:
whm1974, I'm struggling to think of an online forum help section of any site that would reply with anything other than "talk to a lawyer".

I frequent another forum where even the posters who are practicing lawyers/doctors are legally unable to give advice over the Internet. Basically, anyone who could help you, won't or more likely can't.

As far as advice from random Internet posters - you get what you pay for.

I'll ask my caseworker but yes I would be taking a whole shaker of salt with any "advice" I'm given.

Re: Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:42 pm
by Glorious
chuckula wrote:
I would recommend not asking for legal advice on TR's forum.
Talk to a real lawyer instead.


The problem with this is that lawyers who specialize in this area typically only do applications, *not* reviews. This is because they get a substantial portion of your "back-payment", the retro-active disability payments from between the time you initially applied for disability and when you actually got disability. Since that takes months at best (and if so, it was a slam-dunk case they did minimal work on anyway) but usually years, that results in pretty big amount of money.

The review process has no such incentive, the beneficiary is paying out of a pocket. No incentive.

Other random shingle lawyers generally don't do AL, let alone SS. They'll probably tell you to contact a SS lawyer, even if they know that SS lawyer will shrug you off or demand an unrealistically large up-front consultation fee that's basically a "don't bother me, but if you are seriously going to pay me THAT much, lol, $$$$$"

Which, at that point, is retainer: If you are asking out of the blue, the risk is minimal (the rolls have skyrocketed in the last 10 years). If, like most people, you've sought them for reasons, it's not so minimal and they might end up having to represent you...

Hence, if you are only worrying for idle/theoretical reasons, yeah, you're getting gouged.

whm1974 wrote:
That is a good advice but I'm wondering if anyone had any experience with this even indirectly."].


Look, you don't even specify what kind of disability you are on: SSDI or SSI? That's really important.

I'm not a lawyer, but have you even been getting mailers?

How long have you been on it? Like nearly a decade, right?

If you are on SSDI, what kind of work did you do before you applied?

(I am totally not a lawyer)

Re: Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:44 pm
by LostCat
Freelance work is not a sustained income so unless you suddenly start pulling in a lot more than you should be doing on disability they aren't likely to care.

They want it reported every month if it's a decent amount, but on SSI when I wasn't getting much out of it they didn't even want to know.

Re: Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:46 pm
by Glorious
LostCat wrote:
Freelance work is not a sustained income so unless you suddenly start pulling in a lot more than you should be doing on disability they aren't likely to care.

They want it reported every month if it's a decent amount, but on SSI when I wasn't getting much out of it they didn't even want to know.


If he's not even being paid(let alone "volunteering" work for some sort of organization), and he's been on disability for awhile, yes, I don't see any reason for him to worry either.

Re: Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:47 pm
by whm1974
Glorious wrote:
chuckula wrote:
I would recommend not asking for legal advice on TR's forum.
Talk to a real lawyer instead.


The problem with this is that lawyers who specialize in this area typically only do applications, *not* reviews. This is because they get a substantial portion of your "back-payment", the retro-active disability payments from between the time you initially applied for disability and when you actually got disability. Since that takes months at best (and if so, it was a slam-dunk case they did minimal work on anyway) but usually years, that results in pretty big amount of money.

The review process has no such incentive, the beneficiary is paying out of a pocket. No incentive.

Other random shingle lawyers generally don't do AL, let alone SS. They'll probably tell you to contact a SS lawyer, even if they know that SS lawyer will shrug you off or demand an unrealistically large up-front consultation fee that's basically a "don't bother me, but if you are seriously going to pay me THAT much, lol, $$$$$"

Which, at that point, is retainer: If you are asking out of the blue, the risk is minimal (the rolls have skyrocketed in the last 10 years). If, like most people, you've sought them for reasons, it's not so minimal and they might end up having to represent you...

Hence, if you are only worrying for idle/theoretical reasons, yeah, you're getting gouged.

whm1974 wrote:
That is a good advice but I'm wondering if anyone had any experience with this even indirectly."].


Look, you don't even specify what kind of disability you are on: SSDI or SSI? That's really important.

I'm not a lawyer, but have you even been getting mailers?

How long have you been on it? Like nearly a decade, right?

If you are on SSDI, what kind of work did you do before you applied?

(I am totally not a lawyer)

SSDI, I haven't working since late 2009 and I was awarded SSD in early 2013.
I did mostly janitorial with a good chuck of it in a factory.

Re: Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:57 pm
by Glorious
whm1974 wrote:
SSDI, I haven't working since late 2009 and I was awarded SSD in early 2013.
I did mostly janitorial with a good chuck of it in a factory.


And you haven't been receiving CDR mailers?

Look, if you've never even done programming work before it's difficult to argue that, because you are merely trying now as a complete novice, that you are "employable" on that basis. If you are doing this completely on your own, with no payment or even on "volunteer" basis in a work-like position, how does that mean you can work?

Nor, more pragmatically, does the Government even know that you are even trying, right? I'm not saying that you should hide, rather, I'm saying that there isn't anything to hide here and that the Government isn't looking anyway. If you are concerned at all, maybe just don't talk about your hobbies that have no relevance to your status? That's not even remotely unethical.

Again, not a lawyer. If you can find a lawyer who will tell you something different for free or for a reasonable fee, ABSOLUTELY listen to them over me, but I really wouldn't worry.

Re: Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:04 pm
by Glorious
Let me put it this way, if an Adult Baby on disability who builds custom furniture for himself can get denounced by a sitting senator and *still* not lose his benefits, are you seriously worried that you are going to get bounced because you wrote a 50 page document on the arch linux forums about building a specific package?

Re: Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:07 pm
by bob bly
If on SSDI There is a 9 month trial work period available....... you can earn and keep you SSDI payments those 9 months. But you have to keep them informed. I've been on SSDI since '04 and even worked part time in a limited capacity for my previous employer for 10 yrs till that company failed. You need to stay under a certain monthly income.

"If you earn more than this amount, called the "substantial gainful activity (SGA) limit, Social Security assumes you can do a substantial amount of work and you won't be eligible for disability benefits. In 2017, the SGA limit is $1,170 per month (or $1,950 for blind applicants)."

Re: Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:08 pm
by whm1974
Glorious wrote:
Let me put it this way, if an Adult Baby on disability who builds custom furniture for himself can get denounced by a sitting senator and *still* not lose his benefits, are you seriously worried that you are going to get bounced because you wrote a 50 page document on the arch linux forums about building a specific package?

When did that happen? I never heard about that that.

Re: Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:18 pm
by Glorious
whm1974 wrote:
When did that happen? I never heard about that that.


2011, Senator Tom Coburn, Beneficiary Stanley Thornton.

---

Also everything bob bly said is true and good reference point.

Re: Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:23 pm
by whm1974
Glorious wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
When did that happen? I never heard about that that.


2011, Senator Tom Coburn, Beneficiary Stanley Thornton.

---

Also everything bob bly said is true and good reference point.

I would have to look that up for more details, as I'm thinking said Senator was going off half cocked and the beneficiary only made a few pieces that took a long time for him to do.

Re: Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:24 pm
by bob bly
ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10095.pdf

Heck they'll even send you to school on their dime.... if it has a chance to get you off SSDI.
I know someone who finished a masters on their dime..... and is now a public school teacher

Re: Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:29 pm
by Glorious
whm1974 wrote:
I would have to look that up for more details, as I'm thinking said Senator was going off half cocked and the beneficiary only made a few pieces that took a long time for him to do.


There was no editorial comment implied in what I said, so you really don't need to bother.

It was simply an anecdote intended to demonstrate that the SSA clearly isn't out to get you for trying to improve yourself. On the contrary, they would applaud it.

Because if a sitting Senator is powerless to punish someone who was being widely decried as being emblematic of the system's abuse, I mean, why are *you* worried?

Re: Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:33 pm
by whm1974
Glorious wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
I would have to look that up for more details, as I'm thinking said Senator was going off half cocked and the beneficiary only made a few pieces that took a long time for him to do.


There was no editorial comment implied in what I said, so you really don't need to bother.

It was simply an anecdote intended to demonstrate that the SSA clearly isn't out to get you for trying to improve yourself. On the contrary, they would applaud it.

Because if a sitting Senator is powerless to punish someone who was being widely decried as being emblematic of the system's abuse, I mean, why are *you* worried?

Good point. I'm having racing thoughts and maybe I'm just being paranoid.

Re: Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:44 pm
by bob bly
That's just rational fear of a bloated government agency. But you can get quite a bit of help from them......it just feels like being a mouse under a herd of elephants. It can be so hard to get SSDI when you need it , it is hard to risk doing anything that might rock the boat and lose it.

Re: Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:47 pm
by derFunkenstein
bob bly wrote:
Heck they'll even send you to school on their dime.... if it has a chance to get you off SSDI.
I know someone who finished a masters on their dime..... and is now a public school teacher

This is an interesting point. If there are programs available that whm could look into, maybe teaching himself anything is not the best use of his time. A structured environment and being with other people might be beneficial.

My classes are all at night as a function of my schedule, but it's hugely beneficial to actually go to them, to be around other people, and to talk through class-related things with people who are also in the class. It's also been a lot of group projects try to help you get used to working with other people in a team. And if it can be paid for by a program and can turn you into someone who can be employable, hell, I think it's worth digging into.

Re: Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:51 pm
by whm1974
derFunkenstein wrote:
bob bly wrote:
Heck they'll even send you to school on their dime.... if it has a chance to get you off SSDI.
I know someone who finished a masters on their dime..... and is now a public school teacher

This is an interesting point. If there are programs available that whm could look into, maybe teaching himself anything is not the best use of his time. A structured environment and being with other people might be beneficial.

My classes are all at night as a function of my schedule, but it's hugely beneficial to actually go to them, to be around other people, and to talk through class-related things with people who are also in the class. It's also been a lot of group projects try to help you get used to working with other people in a team. And if it can be paid for by a program and can turn you into someone who can be employable, hell, I think it's worth digging into.

Actually I was think of going back to school even if it only a class or two at a time.

Re: Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:54 pm
by Redocbew
If you've got the opportunity, then go for it. Being able to teach yourself new stuff is important, but you'll develop your own way of doing that as you go.

Re: Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:02 pm
by derFunkenstein
whm1974 wrote:
Actually I was think of going back to school even if it only a class or two at a time.

To start out that's probably a good plan. Especially if you haven't been in a classroom setting in many moons, as I hadn't been. I nearly killed myself taking 9 hours on top of my job and other responsibilities. And that was with some experience in the field, however self-taught I was.

Classes at most junior colleges will start fresh in mid-January. You've got two months to get enrolled, but you'll have to do an application and fill out the form known as FAFSA, but it's not a ton of effort assuming you file taxes each year. The IRS can even send your tax info to FAFSA with the click of a button on the site - I've done it three "years" running now (I had to do one for 1617 and 1718, and I've already filled out the one for the 1819 school year, since it's based on my 2016 tax return).

The introductory object-oriented classes at my school are Java and C++, and you can take either language for three semesters. Java in particular can be done on any platform, especially for the command line applications that you'll probably be writing to start out. I learned cool stuff at the command line, like how to build a menu-driven app, and core object-oriented ideas like inheritance, encapsulation, abstraction, and polymorphism - and better yet, I learned how to do those things at a basic level, using what I hope are decent coding practices. There's just a lot to learn beyond the syntax, and school will help direct you into it.

Re: Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:37 pm
by DPete27
What's your disability that's preventing you from working? There are a lot of opportunities for people to work from their computer without even leaving home. My brother-in-law does this.

Work is a way to give life purpose.

Re: Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 5:39 pm
by whm1974
DPete27 wrote:
what's your disability that's preventing you from working?

Major Depression.

Re: Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:53 pm
by Vhalidictes
whm1974 wrote:
DPete27 wrote:
what's your disability that's preventing you from working?

Major Depression.


I'm sorry to hear that, whm1974. I have a few family members with that, and even with treatment the symptoms are the worst.

Re: Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:27 pm
by whm1974
Vhalidictes wrote:
whm1974 wrote:
DPete27 wrote:
what's your disability that's preventing you from working?

Major Depression.


I'm sorry to hear that, whm1974. I have a few family members with that, and even with treatment the symptoms are the worst.

Yeah good thing I have my computer to give me something to do. I've seen people on SSD/SSI with nothing to do ending up drinking or doing drugs, or getting in serious trouble. Not very pleasant at all.

Re: Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:11 am
by DPete27
That's the problem with the system. By the sound of it, you don't seem to suffer much in terms of "severe lack of motivation" (WebMD). I'd hazard a guess that you may in fact be able to work, which can oftentimes instill a feeling of purpose, self - worth, and pride.... all things that would combat MDD. This should be encouraged by SSDI and they should be there if by some unfortunate turn of events that you end up losing your job as a result of your MDD and need financial support again to get you back on your feet. Instead (it sounds like) its all or nothing, which (as shown in your case) actually ends up discouraging people from overcoming their challenges. Hence promoting lifetime welfare.

Anyway, it sounds like there are others here that know more than I do. Be proud to work and make money for yourself. Think about it, that's a big accomplishment!

Re: Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:35 am
by whm1974
DPete27 wrote:
That's the problem with the system. By the sound of it, you don't seem to suffer much in terms of "severe lack of motivation" (WebMD). I'd hazard a guess that you may in fact be able to work, which can oftentimes instill a feeling of purpose, self - worth, and pride.... all things that would combat MDD. This should be encouraged by SSDI and they should be there if by some unfortunate turn of events that you end up losing your job as a result of your MDD and need financial support again to get you back on your feet. Instead (it sounds like) its all or nothing, which (as shown in your case) actually ends up discouraging people from overcoming their challenges. Hence promoting lifetime welfare.

Anyway, it sounds like there are others here that know more than I do. Be proud to work and make money for yourself. Think about it, that's a big accomplishment!

Actually I do have Severe Lack of Motivation(SLM?) There is all kinds of things I would really want to do but I have trouble even starting and then more trouble sticking with it. It was just last Friday that I got really fed up with myself and basically told myself to get off my rear and start doing something, anything major. I have no idea at all if I can keep this up.

Re: Legal issues with being on Disablity

Posted: Sat Nov 11, 2017 1:10 am
by LostCat
good luck capn I'm still trying to get a job in delivery/logistics crap...sort of not real dedicated about it.