Personal computing discussed
Moderators: renee, mac_h8r1, Nelliesboo
JustAnEngineer wrote:Where are you going to stick the low-profile Milo ML08 mini-ITX case that a micro-ATX solution like the Grandia GD05, Sugo SG10 or Temjin TJ08-E wouldn't work? I built my latest gaming PC in a mini-ITX Fortress FTZ01S because it seemed cool to make a tiny PC, but there are compromises in noise, expandability, ease of assembly and cost when you shrink down to mini-ITX from micro-ATX.
JustAnEngineer wrote:Where are you going to stick the low-profile Milo ML08 mini-ITX case that a micro-ATX solution like the Grandia GD05, Sugo SG10 or Temjin TJ08-E wouldn't work? I built my latest gaming PC in a mini-ITX Fortress FTZ01S because it seemed cool to make a tiny PC, but there are compromises in noise, expandability, ease of assembly and cost when you shrink down to mini-ITX from micro-ATX.
synthtel2 wrote:I've been seeing this "Zen is going to be noisy in SFF cases" issue coming up in a couple other threads, and I don't completely get it. We're pretty sure by now that it has a 95W TDP comparable to that of typical Intel quads, and that TDP doesn't cause much trouble there. AVX w/ FMA is responsible for lots of the TDP on the Intel side, but the other four cores are responsible for lots of the TDP on the AMD side. Balancing those out, task energy probably isn't so different either. If some software like a game isn't making full use of eight cores and the performance isn't there, the power use is probably also quite a bit below max. Unless you want to leave a heavy full-time task like F@H running, I don't see the average noise levels being much different. Maybe noise would be a bit burstier when all eight cores are doing their thing, but if they're all in action and getting the job done that much faster, I don't see the problem.
synthtel2 wrote:I've been seeing this "Zen is going to be noisy in SFF cases" issue coming up in a couple other threads, and I don't completely get it. We're pretty sure by now that it has a 95W TDP.
whm1974 wrote:You just had to spoil my fun didn't you?
AbRASiON wrote:whm1974 wrote:You just had to spoil my fun didn't you?
Ignore them, nothing wrong with mITX machines, you can do amazing ones.
Look up the SUGO 08 or Node 304 "owners club" threads at Overclock.net, it's chock full of good info.
synthtel2 wrote:I'll almost certainly put 8C Zen in my NCase M1 if it has mITX options, ECC support is there, and the chipset isn't a terrible mess. Thermals and noise won't be issues, but I do have room for more CPU cooler than most cases this size.
whm1974 wrote:Thanks Chrispy_ but I won't be building until 2018 or 2019. Hopefully AMD will have a much improved second generation Zen core by then.
ptsant wrote:I sort of expected AMD to restrict ECC support to the Naples or however the "server" edition is called. Are you guessing that ECC support will be included or do you have information to that effect?
just brew it! wrote:whm1974 wrote:Thanks Chrispy_ but I won't be building until 2018 or 2019. Hopefully AMD will have a much improved second generation Zen core by then.
By then, either Zen will already be a success or AMD will be planning their exit strategy from the CPU market. I don't think their CPU division can survive another Bulldozer.
whm1974 wrote:OK I was thinking of AMD's upcoming 8 core 95w TDP Zen CPU and how cool it would be to stick it in a SFF case such as the Silverstone ML08-H. I've been watching build videos using various MiniITX cases and I think if I was going to build a SFF system, then this is the case I would use. Looks easy enough to do without a bunch of hassle.
First I'll start out with a MiniITX board with built in WiFi
The CPU w/ a low profile HSF
32 GB of memory
2 large SSDs
GTX 1070 video card
Does this sound good?
maxxcool wrote:I'd GREATLY temper the idea with some history of AMD's cpus regarding temperatures. Until we actually see 90% "load" on one and see the actual real world temps i'd hold off on dropping some coin.
If the 95TPD is 'optimistic' it may end up throttling a majority of the time when gaming or encoding.
Well have to see in 90 days whats what with regard to actual operating temps at 3.5+ghz...
Glorious wrote:maxxcool wrote:I'd GREATLY temper the idea with some history of AMD's cpus regarding temperatures. Until we actually see 90% "load" on one and see the actual real world temps i'd hold off on dropping some coin.
If the 95TPD is 'optimistic' it may end up throttling a majority of the time when gaming or encoding.
Well have to see in 90 days whats what with regard to actual operating temps at 3.5+ghz...
1. The temperatures are going to be more reflective of the cooling setup, and therefore "seeing" them isn't very helpful. You might actually be "seeing" how someone is running the processor in an enclosed shoebox with 100 gram aluminum heatsink and 1000rpm 60mm fan.
2. Is there any indication that any manufacturer is lying about their TDP numbers as a maximum? In fact, doesn't SDP at least partially exist because TDP is a larger value than what practical use usually generates (or how it can be technically constrained into lower tiers)? In other words, that TDP isn't "optimistic" at all, but rather "conservative"?
3. If it is throttling with their stock cooler in a reasonably-sized/cooled case at room temperatures, than it is not only falsely-advertised but plainly defective. It would also be immediately evident in the reviews, which all discerning people should be waiting for anyway.
Glorious wrote:maxxcool wrote:I'd GREATLY temper the idea with some history of AMD's cpus regarding temperatures. Until we actually see 90% "load" on one and see the actual real world temps i'd hold off on dropping some coin.
If the 95TPD is 'optimistic' it may end up throttling a majority of the time when gaming or encoding.
Well have to see in 90 days whats what with regard to actual operating temps at 3.5+ghz...
1. The temperatures are going to be more reflective of the cooling setup, and therefore "seeing" them isn't very helpful. You might actually be "seeing" how someone is running the processor in an enclosed shoebox with 100 gram aluminum heatsink and 1000rpm 60mm fan.
2. Is there any indication that any manufacturer is lying about their TDP numbers as a maximum? In fact, doesn't SDP at least partially exist because TDP is a larger value than what practical use usually generates (or how it can be technically constrained into lower tiers)? In other words, that TDP isn't "optimistic" at all, but rather "conservative"?
3. If it is throttling with their stock cooler in a reasonably-sized/cooled case at room temperatures, than it is not only falsely-advertised but plainly defective. It would also be immediately evident in the reviews, which all discerning people should be waiting for anyway.
synthtel2 wrote:We're pretty sure by now that it has a 95W TDP comparable to that of typical Intel quads, and that TDP doesn't cause much trouble there.
DPete27 wrote:synthtel2 wrote:We're pretty sure by now that it has a 95W TDP comparable to that of typical Intel quads, and that TDP doesn't cause much trouble there.
Let's not forget that historically AMD has had a tendency to underestimate their TDP. Whereas Intel's TDP numbers typically track fairly close to power draw, it's difficult to explain why (for example) the FX8370 draws 61W more than the i7-6700K despite a TDP difference of 34W. I have a hard time believing that the AM3+ platform power usage is responsible for ALL of that additional 27W power draw.
maxxcool wrote:(1) Given my long history with AMD cpus in my lab, 'Seeing' with 80$+ coolers is indicative of the characteristics of a particular process and the ability to 'give up heat' .. and the past ratings were quite optimistic at best under sustained 100% load for weeks on end for my work.
maxxcool wrote:(2) Not yet, that is why I said we have to 'wait and see'
maxxcool wrote:(3) And we will have to wait and see..
DPete27 wrote:Let's not forget that historically AMD has had a tendency to underestimate their TDP. Whereas Intel's TDP numbers typically track fairly close to power draw, it's difficult to explain why (for example) the FX8370 draws 61W more than the i7-6700K despite a TDP difference of 34W. I have a hard time believing that the AM3+ platform power usage is responsible for ALL of that additional 27W power draw.