Personal computing discussed
Moderators: renee, mac_h8r1, Nelliesboo
just brew it! wrote:Server IGPs typically have their own dedicated framebuffer though, to avoid stealing RAM bandwidth from the CPU.
Waco wrote:just brew it! wrote:Server IGPs typically have their own dedicated framebuffer though, to avoid stealing RAM bandwidth from the CPU.
And they're generally a decade out of date, but supported by damn near everything you'd imagine booting in the past two decades.
whm1974 wrote:I keep reading that the Zen 8 core CPU is going to be priced from $300 to $500. I guess we will know more next week. At $300 I'll consider building a system using the 8 core chip, but not at $500. Although at $500 some people will look at it as a real bargain in comparison to what Intel's 8 core Broadwell-E CPU cost.
just brew it! wrote:I would not pay $300 (let alone $500) today for a CPU for a personal system. If I was building a system using someone else's money, then sure...
I think the most I've paid for a CPU since the late 1990s was around $200 (or just a bit over $300 if you count a pair of Athlon MP chips for a dual-CPU system as a single CPU purchase). Going back further, I believe there was a 486 DX4 that I paid more for, but that was a very long time ago!
whm1974 wrote:Well since CPUs do last longer then they used to, I'm more open about getting a higher end processor now than I was in the past.
just brew it! wrote:whm1974 wrote:Well since CPUs do last longer then they used to, I'm more open about getting a higher end processor now than I was in the past.
But the reason CPUs last longer is because meaningful improvements have been so slow. That also diminishes the benefit of buying a new high-end one!
TBH even my 4 year old FX-8350 is still overkill for what I use my PC for. The only way I could even come close to rationally justifying a new CPU (any new CPU, let alone a $300+ one) at this point would be potential future electricity savings; and once you factor in the cost of a new motherboard and DDR4 RAM even that's going to be a losing proposition.
MOSFET wrote:That Sugo SG10 has fairly decent looks for what appears to be a pretty tiny mATX cubish case. I bet a 95W CPU would throttle under a maxxcool torture test, though :D
just brew it! wrote:But the reason CPUs last longer is because meaningful improvements have been so slow. That also diminishes the benefit of buying a new high-end one!
TBH even my 4 year old FX-8350 is still overkill for what I use my PC for. The only way I could even come close to rationally justifying a new CPU (any new CPU, let alone a $300+ one) at this point would be potential future electricity savings; and once you factor in the cost of a new motherboard and DDR4 RAM even that's going to be a losing proposition.
Redocbew wrote:Isn't the possibility of a small form factor Zen system decided by the motherboard vendors, and not by AMD? Having 8+ cores in a mini-ITX form factor isn't anything new, so it's not like Zen would be breaking new ground here. I would agree having a small but obnoxiously loud PC is kind of missing the point, but that's not really up to AMD to decide if it makes sense to do that.
whm1974 wrote:just brew it! wrote:Not sure why that would even be considered a "cheat". TBH I never expected the 8c/16t version to have an IGP; I figured it would be analogous to the APU/FX thing today -- lower core count devices with an IGP for budget-sensitive applications, and higher core count without IGP for performance desktops and workstations. The only difference this time around is that they both use the same socket.
Why would anyone even put an iGPU on a high performance CPU anyway?
AbRASiON wrote:whm1974 wrote:just brew it! wrote:Not sure why that would even be considered a "cheat". TBH I never expected the 8c/16t version to have an IGP; I figured it would be analogous to the APU/FX thing today -- lower core count devices with an IGP for budget-sensitive applications, and higher core count without IGP for performance desktops and workstations. The only difference this time around is that they both use the same socket.
Why would anyone even put an iGPU on a high performance CPU anyway?
I have absoloutely no interest in PC gaming anymore and I'm disapointed that Zen doesn't have a GPU. I don't want to buy one and it costs a fair bit to get a mildly reasonable one which will output to my 2xDP 30" and 1xDVI/HDMI/VGA 24" ....
My Intel 4690k (?) or whatever I have, 4590? something, works totally fine for what I need, it's just too slow a CPU, NOT too slow a GPU.
AbRASiON wrote:So it's in reality the true competitor to the i7 7700k then? :/
just brew it! wrote:AbRASiON wrote:So it's in reality the true competitor to the i7 7700k then? :/
That's probably not an unreasonable assumption.
Topinio wrote:just brew it! wrote:AbRASiON wrote:So it's in reality the true competitor to the i7 7700k then? :/
That's probably not an unreasonable assumption.
Might be an unrealistic hope, though, as AFAICT to do that Zen would need a 95% increase in IPC over Excavator, or higher clocks than the i7-7700K.
just brew it! wrote:Which could still end up being a win for consumers over the long run, if AMD can make a profit on them even at the discounted price and stay in the CPU business. Nothing wrong with affordable 4c/8t with decent integrated graphics... competition is good.
just brew it! wrote:Topinio wrote:Might be an unrealistic hope, though, as AFAICT to do that Zen would need a 95% increase in IPC over Excavator, or higher clocks than the i7-7700K.
Yeah, perhaps a more likely scenario would be "purported competitor, which will end up being heavily discounted when the performance deficit becomes apparent". Which could still end up being a win for consumers over the long run, if AMD can make a profit on them even at the discounted price and stay in the CPU business. Nothing wrong with affordable 4c/8t with decent integrated graphics... competition is good.
whm1974 wrote:My concern with the Zen based APUs is how well the iGPU is going to be supported in Linux.I know that AMD has been making great progress with Linux graphics drivers and if the FOSS drivers become good enough, I will consider switching over from Nvidia to AMD for GPUs.
whm1974 wrote:My concern with the Zen based APUs is how well the iGPU is going to be supported in Linux.I know that AMD has been making great progress with Linux graphics drivers and if the FOSS drivers become good enough, I will consider switching over from Nvidia to AMD for GPUs.
Kretschmer wrote:whm1974 wrote:My concern with the Zen based APUs is how well the iGPU is going to be supported in Linux.I know that AMD has been making great progress with Linux graphics drivers and if the FOSS drivers become good enough, I will consider switching over from Nvidia to AMD for GPUs.
Given how resource-constrained AMD is, I would hope that they pass on Linux gaming support (given the .001% marketshare).