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So shamless plug for Grado.

This past weekend I broke the plastic peice that holds the earcup to the headband do to improper packing for a move on my part. I called Grado fully expecting to have to pay for them to get repaired since these are 10 year old +, out of warranty cans. (they are the lower end SR225) I talked to customer serive rep and he said no problem they would ship me out a replacement Gimble (I didnt even know what it was called Ihad to describe it to him) and asked for my address and email. That's it.

They shipped a replacement part for FREE! And to top that off, he emailed me instructions on how to safely replace the part once I receive it.

Like I said these are lower end cans that they offer but I love them for gaming because they are open air (I can listen for my kids) and most importantly very comfortable.

With service like that they will always have my business.

I intend to check out some Grados the next time I am looking for new headphones. (I currently have a couple of inexpensive Sennheisers -- open air ones for when I need to hear what's going on around me, and semi-closed on-ear ones for when I want a bit more isolation.)

Seriously give them a look. They do have a burn in period. Over time they just get better and better.

I have three sets of cans that I rotate based on needs:

Grado - SR225 - Open air, very comfortable for long gaming sessions. And so I can hear whats going on around me.
Sennheiser - HD 380 Pro - closed ear
Audio Technica - ATH-M50X - Also closed ear, I use these for travel and work they fold up nicely.

Beyond those three I've covered all my needs. Well except for when I do yard work, I still use my iPhone earbuds for that. I've been unable to find anything worthwhile that's in the ear.

Yeah, grados sound great (once they're properly burned in), nice to hear about the exceptional customer support.

Unfortunately, I can't wear them, because they sit on ear and after 30 minutes my ears are aching from the pressure. Then again I haven't used them for 8 years now; maybe they have some over-ear models now?

I dont think they have any over the ear models. I could be wrong though.

http://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/in ... gerd.2064/
http://www.changstar.com/www.changstar. ... 762.0.html
http://www.changstar.com/www.changstar. ... 347.0.html

Strong language in there, read at your own risk. Just pointing out that outside of Head-Fi Grado is not well respected, for various reasons from sound quality to manufacturing quality to marketing and PR shenanigans. I can't imagine someone who thinks Grado sounds good has heard many comparable options.

I had a similar experience once with Logitech, when I broke -- entire through my own carelessness -- the USB wireless receiver for one of their mice (this was before they standardized on the little nubs). I called Logitech to order a replacement part, and was told that they were no longer available because the mouse was long off the market. At that point the customer service person asks for my name and address, which confused me, so I asked why. He told me that they needed to ship me a replacement wireless mouse, since mine was no longer usable (again, entirely my own fault).

A Logitech Performance MX arrived two days later via UPS, and that's what I've used for five years now. Also, Logitech has my business from now on.

slowriot wrote:

I can't imagine someone who thinks Grado sounds good has heard many comparable options.

Trust me when I say, over the years I have dropped a lot of coin on cans before I have settled on the three I listed previously. I've read they naysayers arguments about Grado time and time again. All I will say from my experience and listening tastes, the Grado cans I have sound wonderful.

And to have Customer Service that will ship you parts for free; no questions asked, well, that speaks volumes in my book.

NINJAEDIT: Besides, American company, American made. Can't help but to support that.

tanker27 wrote:

Trust me when I say, over the years I have dropped a lot of coin on cans before I have settled on the three I listed previously. I've read they naysayers arguments about Grado time and time again. All I will say from my experience and listening tastes, the Grado cans I have sound wonderful.

And to have Customer Service that will ship you parts for free; no questions asked, well, that speaks volumes in my book.

NINJAEDIT: Besides, American company, American made. Can't help but to support that.

You paid $200 for a headphone made out of cheap plastic and components sourced from China. But well... be their marketing vehicle if you want. Personally, I don't find it impressive that they could be bothered to ship you a part they keep in stock because they break so damn often but whatever.

slowriot wrote:

I don't find it impressive that they could be bothered to ship you a part they keep in stock because they break so damn often but whatever.

....so damn often......did you miss the part where these cans are over ten years old? And have worked flawlessly until my stupidity? Yeah whatever is right.

Listening tastes are just like opinions, everyone has them. So how about not thread crapping. You voiced yours now move along.

tanker27 wrote:

Seriously give them a look. They do have a burn in period. Over time they just get better and better.

Voldenuit wrote:

Yeah, grados sound great (once they're properly burned in), nice to hear about the exceptional customer support.

Got any technical-analysis sources for this "burned in" theory? Any physical transducer will certainly soften up a bit over time from mechanical motion, but that's usually considered a bit of a design flaw. Meanwhile, there's something else going on: your head adapting to a particular way that something sounds.

An old experiment, which can still be replicated with many software playback source, is to open the Equalizer function, take just one frequency slider in the midband somewhere, and lower it by several dB. Then continue listening for an extended period. It sounds odd at first, but your brain adapts to the new sound and that becomes "normal." Then slide it back to zero again and continue listening: that frequency range sounds exaggerated or even downright piercing for a while.

Another way to get the effect is to wear a set of earplugs for a couple hours, and listen to the normal world in muted, muffled tones. Then pull them out and continue with your day. Instead of hearing the world "normally" again, your midrange and high-frequency sensitivity will jump so much you might think you had traded ears with a dog.

At the end of the day does it matter whether you're "burning in" the headphones or your ears, as long as you're happy with the end result?

Well, anything with a physical transducer is very likely to change in output spectrum between manufacture and "broken-in". The big question is which of the two was the designer's goal? Was the pre-release auditioning/voicing done with a fully "broken-in" unit or a new-mfg unit?

There is still room for the subjective in the audio world.

ludi wrote:

Got any technical-analysis sources for this "burned in" theory? Any physical transducer will certainly soften up a bit over time from mechanical motion, but that's usually considered a bit of a design flaw. Meanwhile, there's something else going on: your head adapting to a particular way that something sounds.

An old experiment, which can still be replicated with many software playback source, is to open the Equalizer function, take just one frequency slider in the midband somewhere, and lower it by several dB. Then continue listening for an extended period. It sounds odd at first, but your brain adapts to the new sound and that becomes "normal." Then slide it back to zero again and continue listening: that frequency range sounds exaggerated or even downright piercing for a while.

Another way to get the effect is to wear a set of earplugs for a couple hours, and listen to the normal world in muted, muffled tones. Then pull them out and continue with your day. Instead of hearing the world "normally" again, your midrange and high-frequency sensitivity will jump so much you might think you had traded ears with a dog.

True and I can't speak of this burn in phenomena. It certainly is up in the air in audiophile circles. link I don't go out of my way to "burn-in" cans. Its not like I force 300 hours of white noise through them. I take them out of the box and start using them. /shrug

I am sure its me 'getting used to it' and liking the way the cans sound. It's all personal preferance. While some may not like Grado's or any of the other two cans I listed others might. All I am saying is that, 'Hey give them a second look. And their Customer Service was good.'

Ned - I try to be pragmatic; I think people can and should pick the experience they enjoy the most, whether for technical reasons or otherwise. But I also think people should remain aware of which parts of the experience are brought by the product's technical capabilities and which parts are brought by the user. Not only does that lead to more sensible and useful information being passed on to others, it avoids the obsessive and wasteful chase for results from things that increasingly have no technical merit at all (e.g. audio-grade power cords priced at 3- or 4-digit numbers).

ludi wrote:

audio-grade power cords priced at 3- or 4-digit numbers.

WHAT! You mean my AudioQuest HDMI cable thats Diamond encrusted with Solid 100% Perfect-Surface Silver Conductors lined with Foamed-Polyethylene Insulation and has a Carbon-Based 3-Layer Noise-Dissipation System are not worth it!?



HAHAHA

(yeah I would never buy these things. Hence the reason I shop at Monoprice (another shameless plug))

tanker27 wrote:

WHAT! You mean my AudioQuest HDMI cable thats Diamond encrusted with Solid 100% Perfect-Surface Silver Conductors lined with Foamed-Polyethylene Insulation and has a Carbon-Based 3-Layer Noise-Dissipation System are not worth it!?

Depends, are you going to wear it on stage at your next hip-hip show? Might look pretty good when you saunter out of your G-Wagen.

I Have lowly Grado SR-80's, but they make my music sound like it's on vinyl. I love the sound and can only imagine what the better models sound like.

Grado's customer service is what you'd expect from a family-owned and operated business in the United States. If you're ever in NYC, you can stop by the little shop in Brooklyn where they make the stuff. Super friendly people there.

tanker27 wrote:

WHAT! You mean my AudioQuest HDMI cable thats Diamond encrusted with Solid 100% Perfect-Surface Silver Conductors lined with Foamed-Polyethylene Insulation and has a Carbon-Based 3-Layer Noise-Dissipation System are not worth it!?

I am convinced that cables like these only exist for Amazon-based humor. Checking out their listing...

Q: If I plug this into my flux capacitor will I finally be able to time travel?
A: Yes because I am actually answering this question from 2035 and its best supported with the flux capacitor

Q: Will this help me take over the world by any chance? I'm looking for a cable that will help with that.
A: Maybe not the whole world, but parts of North Dakota and the entire Eastern Seaboard are yours for the taking!!!

The reviews are a pleasure as well.

ludi wrote:

Ned - I try to be pragmatic; I think people can and should pick the experience they enjoy the most, whether for technical reasons or otherwise. But I also think people should remain aware of which parts of the experience are brought by the product's technical capabilities and which parts are brought by the user. Not only does that lead to more sensible and useful information being passed on to others, it avoids the obsessive and wasteful chase for results from things that increasingly have no technical merit at all (e.g. audio-grade power cords priced at 3- or 4-digit numbers).

Those cables are easy to identify as a scam and point in laugh. But this thread is proof that people will perform all kinds of similar mental gymnastics to justify their headphone purchases. And now we have someone claiming their Grado's make their music sound like its coming off vinyl and I'm just.... flabbergasted... *vomit*

Guess what dude with an SR80... its the same driver used up the entire line up until you get to their $600+ options. Throw some blue tak or something in the cups. It'll do the same as what Grado does.

Just for giggles (and to annoy Slowriot), i went to the most recent Stereophile Recommended Components List with the intent to build the most expensive system I could. Here's what you get:


I'm sure that with cables, stands, and other associated stuff I could clear the $1,000,000 mark pretty easily. If anyone actually does follow the link, you'll note that the writeups of some of this equipment contain notes that the reviewer purchased the review sample. I don't know what they do (or did) for a living, but it sure isn't what I'm doing (and yes, it's a slow day and I'm the only one here).

Purchased* personally!


*For 99% off in exchange for a review in Stereophile.

FireGryphon wrote:

I Have lowly Grado SR-80's, but they make my music sound like it's on vinyl. I love the sound and can only imagine what the better models sound like.

Grado's customer service is what you'd expect from a family-owned and operated business in the United States. If you're ever in NYC, you can stop by the little shop in Brooklyn where they make the stuff. Super friendly people there.

I have had the even lowlier SR-60's for over 10 years and I think they sound great. Although I did drop a couple thousand on my stereo system in 1972, I would not say I am an audiophile. LOL.

Ned, in the meantime, the $810k rig will barely sound better than the $8,100 one.

morphine wrote:

Ned, in the meantime, the $810k rig will barely sound better than the $8,100 one.

Well, it's not like I'm ever going to get the chance to make the comparison. Hell, I'd be lucky to compare my current rig to a $8,100 setup. I was just trying to show how much it costs to temporarily beat back attacks of audiophilia nervosa.

I love my Grado GS1000 headphones. Their presence attributes help with positioning in VR to an impressive degree (I currently work as an audio programmer on a VR title), which adds another cool dimension to the room-scale experience. Also interesting: When the level of detail is sufficient in a pair of headphones, your ears/brain take over and perform automatic "mixing" in a VR environment. I consider the GS1000's my favorite and most cost-effective audio equipment purchase I've made, since they've given me years of scarcely-matched performance. (They took several weeks burn in, but looking back now that seems like the blink of an eye.)

Grado's are good but the "burn in" was always bunk for me. It was more about the brain simply adjusting to them more than them being broken in. My friend is a huge Grado fan, I've listened to a few of his sets before and after burn in and there wasn't a noticeable improvement. When I wear my Sennheisers while burning them in, my brain thinks they sound better, but my logical side doesn't believe it.

For me I can't stand the on-ear design of Grado's and I've never considered them "superior". Different, but not better. I've stuck with Sennheiser since and have no regrets. I've had a pair of $50 Sennheiser 497's that I bought for my office, they are 13 years old I believe. They feel like a "cheap" plastic and have these scrawny ball joints to hold the headphones to the band. I travel with them. They've never broken. I've broken many headsets in my life but somehow these and all the other Sennheisers have stayed together. They are so old the paint is rubbed off in several areas and the cushion is missing the fake leather look. I drop them on concrete every few months. It really boggles my mind that something so cheap looking could survive so long.

FireGryphon wrote:

I Have lowly Grado SR-80's, but they make my music sound like it's on vinyl. I love the sound and can only imagine what the better models sound like.

Seriously - don't go there. The SR-60 and SR-80 are still the best headphones they make. And all Grado's lack bass so don't buy if you're a basshead or just a fan of neutral sound in general. And I don't mean compared to beats, I mean compared a reference headphone like the HD600.

Grado GS1000 is a horrible headphone for the money, there I said it. Sorry. But that's my opinion. If you do want to fork out $1000 on a pair of Grado's make sure you listen and compare to other headphone in that price range first. Or half that price range and up... the HD600, HD650, Hifiman HE-400S, HE-560, Audeze LCD-2, Fostex TH-900, HD800S, Hifiman Edition-X.. they're all nice and I'd pick any of them before going for high-end Grado's. Not aiming to burst anyone's bubble, that's just my opinion.

TwoEars wrote:

Seriously - don't go there.

You see "sounds like vinyl" as a degrading epithet. Some of us old farts see that as a goal because for us, vinyl sounds more "right" than digital.

Yes, I've thrown down that gauntlet. Heck, the umpteenth coming of vinyl that's happening now is actually causing the construction of new vinyl pressing plants. Ten years ago we were striving to save the few that remained. And yes, I will die a "vinyl firster".

As for cans, I've got a pair. The Shure e500 IEMs are the traveling/airplane rig, backed by a HeadRoom Total BitHead, sourced from a Zune HD64 with 320 kbps MP3s. The desktop rig is a set of Oppo PM-3s driven by an iFi micro iCan sourced from WAV files on an external HD through Foobar2000.

Captain Ned wrote:

You see "sounds like vinyl" as a degrading epithet.

Not at all, good vinyl sounds great. I prefer the practicality of flac but nothing wrong with a good vinyl rig.