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Frugal
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Re: In search of a unicorn...

Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:57 pm

Class T and class D amps are kind of noisy with all of the power switching they do.  I doubt that is the best chassis to share with an FM radio receiver.

Years ago I had a little sound card external accessory thing that had IO and stuff along with an ok FM radio.  I think I still have it and thinking about it, I should try to pair it the cheapo class D amp I have...
 
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Re: In search of a unicorn...

Wed Aug 24, 2016 1:11 pm

Wow, that was some major Google-fu.

Also, SS, if you hadn't bought speakers yet and wanted to save space further, you could go with powered studio monitors + a separate FM receiver.
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SecretSquirrel
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Re: In search of a unicorn...

Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:37 pm

morphine wrote:
Wow, that was some major Google-fu.

Also, SS, if you hadn't bought speakers yet and wanted to save space further, you could go with powered studio monitors + a separate FM receiver.


You know how hard it is to find a separate FM receiver these days? Cost damn near as much as a low end AVR and in many cases are more expensive than a low end stereo receiver. Being involved in the manufacture of equipment, I understand why, but it still seems wrong...

I may still go the powered monitor route. At some point I need to upgrade the speakers in the master bedroom from 1995 vintage Yamaha two-ways to something a bit better. I may move the Fluance's into the bedroom and replace them with powered monitors in the office, especially if radio reception is moved to the computer.

--SS
 
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Re: In search of a unicorn...

Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:47 pm

SecretSquirrel wrote:
You know how hard it is to find a separate FM receiver these days?  Cost damn near as much as a low end AVR and in many cases are more expensive than a low end stereo receiver.  Being involved in the manufacture of equipment, I understand why, but it still seems wrong...

Hence the reason some people have hacked car stereos into a simple desktop chassis...or for that matter, a computer 5.25" bay.  The power supply is easy, the SPDIF is a bit harder unless you accessorize with some sort of DAC and connect to the aux-in.
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Re: In search of a unicorn...

Wed Aug 24, 2016 3:50 pm

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Frugal
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Re: In search of a unicorn...

Wed Aug 24, 2016 4:05 pm

SecretSquirrel wrote:
morphine wrote:
Wow, that was some major Google-fu.

Also, SS, if you hadn't bought speakers yet and wanted to save space further, you could go with powered studio monitors + a separate FM receiver.


You know how hard it is to find a separate FM receiver these days?  Cost damn near as much as a low end AVR and in many cases are more expensive than a low end stereo receiver.  Being involved in the manufacture of equipment, I understand why, but it still seems wrong...

I may still go the powered monitor route.  At some point I need to upgrade the speakers in the master bedroom from 1995 vintage Yamaha two-ways to something a bit better.  I may move the Fluance's into the bedroom and replace them with powered monitors in the office, especially if radio reception is moved to the computer.

--SS

I see separate FM tuners all the time.  I have an old Sansui that I keep around but don't currently use.  I have seen 3-4 more I wanted to buy for under $20 but the Sansui works and I don't need more.  The problem is that old stuff doesn't have new features like RDS or HD radio because they are old.  The new stuff with all the features is $$$ and I fear it will never get cheap because people generally don't buy fancy radios any more.
What is worse is AM radios, I think the chip receivers have gotten worse and it's a race to the bottom.  You have to spend to get good reception which seems silly for AM.
Of course most of my stereo gear is bought from garage sales and surplus stores because I don't like to spend the money for new and good.  That doesn't always mean ancient or bad, my last two purchases were a set of NAD separates for $60 (given to a friend) and a fairly recent low end Yamaha AV receiver for $80 (for HDMI switching and to remove the rat's nest of RCAs behind my parent's TV).
 
SecretSquirrel
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Re: In search of a unicorn...

Wed Aug 24, 2016 4:40 pm

Frugal wrote:
SecretSquirrel wrote:
morphine wrote:
Wow, that was some major Google-fu.

Also, SS, if you hadn't bought speakers yet and wanted to save space further, you could go with powered studio monitors + a separate FM receiver.


You know how hard it is to find a separate FM receiver these days?  Cost damn near as much as a low end AVR and in many cases are more expensive than a low end stereo receiver.  Being involved in the manufacture of equipment, I understand why, but it still seems wrong...

I may still go the powered monitor route.  At some point I need to upgrade the speakers in the master bedroom from 1995 vintage Yamaha two-ways to something a bit better.  I may move the Fluance's into the bedroom and replace them with powered monitors in the office, especially if radio reception is moved to the computer.

--SS

I see separate FM tuners all the time.  I have an old Sansui that I keep around but don't currently use.  I have seen 3-4 more I wanted to buy for under $20 but the Sansui works and I don't need more.  The problem is that old stuff doesn't have new features like RDS or HD radio because they are old.  The new stuff with all the features is $$$ and I fear it will never get cheap because people generally don't buy fancy radios any more.
What is worse is AM radios, I think the chip receivers have gotten worse and it's a race to the bottom.  You have to spend to get good reception which seems silly for AM.
Of course most of my stereo gear is bought from garage sales and surplus stores because I don't like to spend the money for new and good.  That doesn't always mean ancient or bad, my last two purchases were a set of NAD separates for $60 (given to a friend) and a fairly recent low end Yamaha AV receiver for $80 (for HDMI switching and to remove the rat's nest of RCAs behind my parent's TV).


Yes, I should have clarified the "new part". Craigslist is your friend. :wink:
 
SecretSquirrel
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Re: In search of a unicorn...

Fri Aug 26, 2016 1:41 pm

Just for a bit of reference:

The reason for this thread:
Image

Left speaker
Image

Right speaker
Image

The left speaker is on top of the bookshelf you see in the background.
Image

The right is on top of this one.
Image
 
Redocbew
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Re: In search of a unicorn...

Fri Aug 26, 2016 4:58 pm

You get serious nerd cred for having books on VB5.0 and Excel 2003.
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Re: In search of a unicorn...

Fri Aug 26, 2016 5:03 pm

Redocbew wrote:
You get serious nerd cred for having books on VB5.0 and Excel 2003.


That Excel 2003 book is actually still a very handy reference. I only rarely do complex things in Excel so having a good reference is nice when I do. As far as VB5 goes... I haven't touch it since the early 2000s. Probably need to take those to Half Priced Books.
 
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Re: In search of a unicorn...

Fri Aug 26, 2016 5:32 pm

I think you need a book on speaker placement.
 
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Re: In search of a unicorn...

Fri Aug 26, 2016 6:35 pm

Frugal wrote:
I think you need a book on speaker placement.


Oh, I know they are in horrible locations. Not much I can do about it in this room.
 
biffzinker
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Re: In search of a unicorn...

Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:05 pm

Redocbew wrote:
You get serious nerd cred for having books on VB5.0 and Excel 2003.

Came across these old books at my parents house from way back.
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CScottG
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Re: In search of a unicorn...

Fri Aug 26, 2016 8:54 pm

SecretSquirrel wrote:

Does such a unicorn exist?

--SS

It's not a unicorn, it's a jackalope.
Last edited by CScottG on Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
just brew it!
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Re: In search of a unicorn...

Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:04 pm

CScottG wrote:
..and if you really like FM why cheap-out on the tuner?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Magnum-Dynalab- ... id%3D22635

-this thing was over 3 grand when new.

Well, there was this bit:
SecretSquirrel wrote:
The point was to reclaim some space and get rid of some heat.

Somehow, I think adding a discrete rack mount tuner to the mix may be missing the point. :wink:
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Re: In search of a unicorn...

Fri Aug 26, 2016 9:12 pm

just brew it! wrote:
CScottG wrote:
..and if you really like FM why cheap-out on the tuner?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Magnum-Dynalab- ... id%3D22635

-this thing was over 3 grand when new.

Well, there was this bit:
SecretSquirrel wrote:
The point was to reclaim some space and get rid of some heat.

Somehow, I think adding a discrete rack mount tuner to the mix may be missing the point. :wink:

Yup. But the integrated amp had that, (..but didn't have optical input which requires an integrated dac as well, my bad - again).
However, 
Most people don't change the station on their tuner, it can be pushed-off elsewhere in the room with RCA's out to where ever you want your integrated amp.  So functionally it shouldn't be that different.
I was also thinking more about the subjective result (..sound-wise).
 
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Re: In search of a unicorn...

Fri Aug 26, 2016 10:02 pm

just brew it! wrote:
CScottG wrote:
..and if you really like FM why cheap-out on the tuner?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Magnum-Dynalab- ... id%3D22635

-this thing was over 3 grand when new.

Well, there was this bit:
SecretSquirrel wrote:
The point was to reclaim some space and get rid of some heat.

Somehow, I think adding a discrete rack mount tuner to the mix may be missing the point. :wink:


It's actually a pretty sweet receiver. I like the enclosure and the front panel look. The combination of analog meters and discrete 7-segments has a certain draw.

I got the SDR up and running. Reception is good, but now I need to find a decent UI and figure out which decoder has the best sound. I've got GQRX running right now and the audio is very, very bright.
 
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Re: In search of a unicorn...

Fri Aug 26, 2016 11:54 pm

SecretSquirrel wrote:

CScottG wrote:
..and if you really like FM why cheap-out on the tuner?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Magnum-Dynalab- ... id%3D22635

-this thing was over 3 grand when new.



It's actually a pretty sweet receiver.  

It's just a tuner, EDIT: sorry, this isn't the model I heard - I can't confirm it's quality.

You could then add an integrated amp that also sounds good and meets most of your requirements (..with a long run of RCA cables from the tuner to your efficient integrated amp). The result would be in completely different category sound-wise - assuming it's similar in quality to what I've heard from a prior model.
Last edited by CScottG on Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Re: In search of a unicorn...

Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:06 am

CScottG wrote:
SecretSquirrel wrote:

CScottG wrote:
..and if you really like FM why cheap-out on the tuner?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Magnum-Dynalab- ... id%3D22635

-this thing was over 3 grand when new.



It's actually a pretty sweet receiver.  

It's just a tuner, but quite likely in the top 10 of all tuners (ever produced for consumers) - sound-wise.  (..I've heard it, it's *very* good).


*sigh* Only in the audio world is a receiver an amplifier. Everywhere else a receiver is the thing that receives, in this case, radio waves.

CScottG wrote:
You could then add an integrated amp that also sounds good and meets most of your requirements (..with a long run of RCA cables from the tuner to your efficient integrated amp). The result would be in completely different category sound-wise.


That is still limited to FM broadcast quality. Less noise and distortion contributed by the tuner, I'm sure, but still the exact same category -- FM broadcast quality.

--SS
 
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Re: In search of a unicorn...

Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:15 am

SecretSquirrel wrote:
CScottG wrote:
SecretSquirrel wrote:




It's actually a pretty sweet receiver.  

It's just a tuner, but quite likely in the top 10 of all tuners (ever produced for consumers) - sound-wise.  (..I've heard it, it's *very* good).


*sigh*  Only in the audio world is a receiver an amplifier.  Everywhere else a receiver is the thing that receives, in this case, radio waves.


--SS

Oh, sorry - yes a tuner receives broadcast waves, but it has to tune into them for selection, no?  A "receiver" also receives multiple inputs as well!
Last edited by CScottG on Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
 
biffzinker
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Re: In search of a unicorn...

Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:22 am

Is this your old office in the background SecretSquirrel?
Image
I was backtracking from earlier to the circuit diagram with 4-pin fan header to ask what it was for.
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SecretSquirrel
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Re: In search of a unicorn...

Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:30 am

biffzinker wrote:
Is this your old office in the background SecretSquirrel?
Image
I was backtracking from earlier to the circuit diagram with 4-pin fan header to ask what it was for.


Yep, that's my office in our old house. We moved last fall. The new office is a bit smaller but, overall, much nicer.

--SS
 
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Re: In search of a unicorn...

Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:00 pm

Well, the SDR shows promise, but will take some time to figure out the right solution and will probably involve some coding for a UI. GQRX is just too harsh for normal listening and I don't know if it is flowgraph/parameters he used, or something inherent in the wideband FM demodulator in GnuRadio, or something else. It will take me a while to put together the proper flowgraph in GnuRadio itself so I can start tweaking. Right now I have a bunch of other stuff to work on too and a trip on Monday. :(

--SS
 
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Re: In search of a unicorn...

Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:43 am

If the main purpose is for playing back FM radio, I'd consider it MUCH more important to get a tuner capable of HD radio than worrying about the quality of said tuner/amp.  Just wondering if your new setup has HD radio capability?
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SecretSquirrel
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Re: In search of a unicorn...

Tue Aug 30, 2016 1:19 pm

DPete27 wrote:
If the main purpose is for playing back FM radio, I'd consider it MUCH more important to get a tuner capable of HD radio than worrying about the quality of said tuner/amp.  Just wondering if your new setup has HD radio capability?


To the best of my knowledge, there is no SDR solution for HD-Radio since it is a proprietary codec that you have to license. For that matter, hardware HD Radio receivers are damn hard to find.

--SS
 
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Re: In search of a unicorn...

Tue Aug 30, 2016 1:59 pm

..
 
DPete27
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Re: In search of a unicorn...

Tue Aug 30, 2016 2:13 pm

Good to know.  I was just speaking from experience with car audio.  Many newer cars have HD radio and a growing number of aftermarket decks have it also.  I wanna say this Kenwood deck was what I installed in my last car.  When it kicked from analog FM to HD radio it was a night-and-day difference.
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ludi
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Re: In search of a unicorn...

Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:26 pm

DPete27 wrote:
Good to know.  I was just speaking from experience with car audio.  Many newer cars have HD radio and a growing number of aftermarket decks have it also.  I wanna say this Kenwood deck was what I installed in my last car.  When it kicked from analog FM to HD radio it was a night-and-day difference.

That's pretty close to the one I had in my last car, too. Subjectively, I found that HD-FM was just a bit below CD quality and HD-AM was pretty close to traditional FM quality.
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SecretSquirrel
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Re: In search of a unicorn...

Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:08 pm

ludi wrote:
DPete27 wrote:
Good to know.  I was just speaking from experience with car audio.  Many newer cars have HD radio and a growing number of aftermarket decks have it also.  I wanna say this Kenwood deck was what I installed in my last car.  When it kicked from analog FM to HD radio it was a night-and-day difference.

That's pretty close to the one I had in my last car, too. Subjectively, I found that HD-FM was just a bit below CD quality and HD-AM was pretty close to traditional FM quality.


As with HDTV broadcasts, a lot depends on the station, but in generally I find it to be of better quality. In a car, it can sometimes be hard to tell, but at the house, I can definitely here the difference.

When I bought my last AV receiver was when I found out how hard it was to get a receiver with HD Radio, especially on anything other than the very high end.

--SS

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