TR Forums

tanker27 wrote:

Because they always want the latest update. Even the average user cares about this. Maybe not 100% but yes the majority does care.

Ehh... you may have a point there. I guess my enthusiasm for "latest and greatest" tends to be tempered with "OK, what functionality did they remove, what tasks will I need to re-learn because things work differently now, and what did they unintentionally break?"

I *just* upgraded my primary desktop to Ubuntu 14.04 a couple of months ago. Yes, that's an entire LTS version behind. 4 versions behind if you count non-LTS releases.

JBI wrote:

"OK, what functionality did they remove, what tasks will I need to re-learn because things work differently now, and what did they unintentionally break?"

And there is another side of that applies to what tanker27 is saying.

The fragmentation means even the same android version can be extremely different when it comes to user interface.

IoS is just IoS. You can't accidentally become familiar with a vendor app that isn't available on an different handset (but same android version), you won't become familiar with touchwiz, etc...

Captain Ned wrote:

But is it 3.5mm?

You know what I'd be amused by?

If Samsung (of course it'll be Samsung) decided to put a second headphone jack ("so you can listen along with a friend") on the Galaxy S8, just to troll Apple.

bhtooefr wrote:

You know what I'd be amused by?

If Samsung (of course it'll be Samsung) decided to put a second headphone jack ("so you can listen along with a friend") on the Galaxy S8, just to troll Apple.

Can a troll be trolled? Surely Apple is already The King Troll by patenting rectangles with rounded corners and winning a lawsuit with that ridiculousness....

Ikepuska wrote:

seankay wrote:

As much as I have analyzed it, they just want to bring the wireless culture in already and definitely they would love to be called the pioneers!

That's great in principle, but the other pioneer moves, like moving away from floppies or DVD drives happened because there were measurably, objectively BETTER technologies, and they were the first to accept that technology had moved on. Wireless audio tech is NOT in that bucket by any conceivable stretch of the word. It has a different set of trade-offs. Contrast with DVDs and later thumb drives there were, for all intents and purposes, no trade-offs that came off as worse than the technology it replaced.

I completely agree with your point if it is merely about technology, but when it comes to competition and Apple (that always consider itself to be the innovator) this is about being pioneer despite the fact that the 3.5 mm jack is not even near to be obsolete!

In other words, it is about branding and image (the need to be perceived as being on the bleeding edge), not what delivers best value for the money to their customers.

This is offensive to me.

Apple has had, on multiple occasions in the past, flashes of genius and innovation. This is not one of them.

just brew it! wrote:

This is offensive to me.

I'll be able to plug my 3.5mm equipped HD 461I headphones into my iPhone 7 the moment I take it out of its box. There is no reason to be offended.

just brew it! wrote:

In other words, it is about branding and image (the need to be perceived as being on the bleeding edge), not what delivers best value for the money to their customers.

This is offensive to me.

Apple has had, on multiple occasions in the past, flashes of genius and innovation. This is not one of them.

Yeah I'm offended myself when corporations do this as well.

End User wrote:

just brew it! wrote:

This is offensive to me.

I'll be able to plug my 3.5mm equipped HD 461I headphones into my iPhone 7 the moment I take it out of its box. There is no reason to be offended.

It's an extra dongle you have to carry around (and which can get lost), an extra electrical interface (which introduces another potential point of connector failure), and additional cost that users must implicitly pay, even if it is included with the phone.

What's the advantage of this, again?

Sounds like more of a bug than a feature, unless you're willing to shell out another $160 for their AirPods (and are happy with the fidelity and comfort thereof).

From Conan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_wImaG ... HVKhd9g3VY

Glorious wrote:

I don't think I've ever had a male 3.5mm jack wear out.

I actually have seen one of these worn out and in bad condition, but it was the 3.5mm end of a 3.5mm to 1/4" adapter that came with some high-end headphones whose cables ended in 1/4". Looked something like this:



The wear was pretty much because the weight of the big 1/4" was hanging off the end of the small 3.5mm connector, and the long 1/4" connector was applying a lever force on it. Something like this would've worked a lot better:

just brew it! wrote:

What's the advantage of this, again?
Sounds like more of a bug than a feature, unless you're willing to shell out another $160 for their AirPods (and are happy with the fidelity and comfort thereof).

I haven't read the rest of the thread, but there is one reason I think this could be a good thing.
Replacing a single purpose jack that a lot of people don't use with a multipurpose connector that everyone does.
For those who use the jack it's not optimal, but they're not left out in the cold either.
For those who don't, they can use it as whatever they like.
Kind of like PS/2/serial/parralel ports vs USB really, though I know the comparison might not be 100%.

LostCat wrote:

Kind of like PS/2/serial/parralel ports vs USB really, though I know the comparison might not be 100%.

When they are going to put 2 or more Lightning/USB3-TypeC ports on the phones, then we will talk.

Flying Fox wrote:

LostCat wrote:

Kind of like PS/2/serial/parralel ports vs USB really, though I know the comparison might not be 100%.

When they are going to put 2 or more Lightning/USB3-TypeC ports on the phones, then we will talk.

Can't you daisy chain em?  I mean maybe it'd take more hardware in the first thing plugged in but it seems like it should be possible.
I haven't really read up on Lightning yet since I'm not likely to ever use anything Apple related.

LostCat wrote:

just brew it! wrote:

What's the advantage of this, again?
Sounds like more of a bug than a feature, unless you're willing to shell out another $160 for their AirPods (and are happy with the fidelity and comfort thereof).

I haven't read the rest of the thread, but there is one reason I think this could be a good thing.
Replacing a single purpose jack that a lot of people don't use with a multipurpose connector that everyone does.
For those who use the jack it's not optimal, but they're not left out in the cold either.
For those who don't, they can use it as whatever they like.
Kind of like PS/2/serial/parralel ports vs USB really, though I know the comparison might not be 100%.

But by removing the 3.5mm and overloading the function of the charging port you force use of an extra adapter for people who want to use existing headphones, and further inconvenience people who want to use wired headphones and charge the phone at the same time. To charge and listen now you need a splitter, in addition to the headphone adapter! Maybe they figure if they make using wired headphones sufficiently inconvenient, more people will opt to shell out for the AirPods.

How did having the 3.5mm jack inconvenience the people who never used it? Oh, right... it didn't.

LostCat wrote:

Flying Fox wrote:

LostCat wrote:

Kind of like PS/2/serial/parralel ports vs USB really, though I know the comparison might not be 100%.

When they are going to put 2 or more Lightning/USB3-TypeC ports on the phones, then we will talk.

Can't you daisy chain em?  I mean maybe it'd take more hardware in the first thing plugged in but it seems like it should be possible.
I haven't really read up on Lightning yet since I'm not likely to ever use anything Apple related.

As JBI said, in the iPhone 7's case you need a splitter just to be able to charge and listen to music. If you are using an older headphone you will need the adapter too, which makes the whole contraption really ugly. For what? The space saved in the iPhone wasn't really repurposed for anything else (yet). So it doesn't make sense at this point.

And as others in the thread mention, is there anything else better in terms of sound quality waiting in the wings to take over? Not really. I know wireless is supposed to be the future, but until they can agree on a standard (fat chance with Apple always wanting to re-invent the wheel), and make it such that it can take higher bitrates (AptX is a good start but still not quite enough yet, plus adoption is still bad), wireless is not "better" in terms of audio quality yet.

just brew it! wrote:

How did having the 3.5mm jack inconvenience the people who never used it? Oh, right... it didn't.

I don't really disagree with you.  I think this is a dumb move on their part, but give it three years and people will be calling it revolutionary and magical because Apple.
The potential minor gains by removing it don't seem that important, but I have to assume they had reasons for removing it beyond pissing people off/making them buy new stuff.

LostCat wrote:

The potential minor gains by removing it don't seem that important, but I have to assume they had reasons for removing it beyond pissing people off/making them buy new stuff.

My assumption is that they decided (correctly or not) that any lost sales from pissing people off would be more than made up for by the additional sales of (expensive) wireless earbuds.

I also think the DRM angle has merits too in all of these. This is the last analog hole left (more or less).

Flying Fox wrote:

I also think the DRM angle has merits too in all of these.  This is the last analog hole left (more or less).

Unless every single device maker out there follows suit, which seems hellishly unlikely in even the next ten years...what are we even talking about here?  That's like locking the gate but the fence is only a foot high anyway.

Flying Fox wrote:

I also think the DRM angle has merits too in all of these. This is the last analog hole left (more or less).

Except that (at least in the iPhone 7 case) they are supplying the external analog 3.5" adapter with the phone.

But yeah, it's a "camel's nose in the tent" situation.

I haven't missed it in my 7+ yet. AirPlay to the 2 Apple Tv's in the house and the only time I use headphones is the headset in the car which I've swapped for the new set. I doubt I'll ever use the included adapter.

yogibbear wrote:

http://appleplugs.com/

Snnnrrrggxxxhhxxggsxxxxhhxxsssxx *SNORT*

Flying Fox wrote:

I also think the DRM angle has merits too in all of these.

Apple led the charge on DRM free music. Apple always had DRM on its iTunes sourced rentals and purchases.

Apple may have been the first to eliminate the 3.5mm jack but USB Type-C will kill it:

Device manufacturers can eliminate the need for multiple ports and efficiently deliver data, power and video over a single connector with USB Type-C and USB Power Delivery.

http://www.usb.org/press/USB-IF_Press_R ... _FINAL.pdf

End User wrote:

Apple may have been the first to eliminate the 3.5mm jack but USB Type-C will kill it:

Device manufacturers can eliminate the need for multiple ports and efficiently deliver data, power and video over a single connector with USB Type-C and USB Power Delivery.

http://www.usb.org/press/USB-IF_Press_R ... _FINAL.pdf

I doubt that will be the case. What will happen is that phones and other devices will appear with both of them.