Personal computing discussed

Moderator: Captain Ned

  • 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
 
Ikepuska
Gerbil
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:53 pm

Re: Why hasn't the 3.5mm jack/port been shrunk?

Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:25 am

just brew it! wrote:
End User wrote:
As far as cabled headphones go both USB and Lightning have us covered. Time to move on.

It adds cost, limits consumer choice, and given there are two different standards, it ties the headphones to being used with only a subset of the devices out there. What if I have one device that uses Lightning and one that uses USB? Do I need two sets of headphones? Extra adapters? Yuck.


Truthfully, I don't have a magical attachment to the 3.5mm form factor as long as there's cabling that generates analog audio that has a standardized plug. But I also don't see USB ports with analog audio on every single piece of audio gear in my home anytime within the next decade or two. I mean, think for a moment. Every single audio chain in my house hold, without exception, has a 3.5mm audio jack somewhere along the way. And in many of them it's in multiple places like my TV and AV receiver both having jacks. The bottom line is that analog audio is just electrical wave signals designed to power magnetic speakers. Which means all equipment that connects to speakers generates analog audio should have the same audio connection available. (P.S. I'm excluding such things as soundboards because just like I don't expect SAS in my consumer gear, I don't expect XLR in my consumer audio.)

The truth is that USB cables as analog audio cables actually leaves a great deal to be desired due to a combination of the short lengths, and surface area of contacts. It's also not objectively a better connector for pure audio equipment. There's literally no reason to use a USB form factor when there's never going to be USB data also carried over the connection. Which means I expect that it may not get as much traction in audio equipment. Truthfully the constraints that would lead one to want a USB audio or Thunderbolt audio are only really strong in the smartphone space. And I just don't see smartphones vs everyone else who uses 3.5mm as breaking in the smartphones favor. I honestly don't.

Admittedly there was a period where 'serious' audio gear had 1/4" and I needed a passive 1/4" to 3.5mm adapter. But a) that period is passed, and b) that adapter is inline, trivial and in my experience most of them even have screw threads so that it's as close as possible to not having an adapter.

ETA: cable=/=jack apparently. Who knew? Plus I clarified a point
 
Glorious
Gold subscriber
Grand Admiral Gerbil
Posts: 10399
Joined: Tue Aug 27, 2002 6:35 pm

Re: Why hasn't the 3.5mm jack/port been shrunk?

Mon Oct 10, 2016 7:30 am

JBI wrote:
It adds cost, limits consumer choice, and given there are two different standards, it ties the headphones to being used with only a subset of the devices out there. What if I have one device that uses Lightning and one that uses USB? Do I need two sets of headphones? Extra adapters? Yuck.


Universal standards suck. How am I supposed to look down on people for using "legacy" equipment if everything just worked with everything else?

Don't you understand what the point of these gadgets is? It's not whether or they perform better, hell, I don't care if they're markedly worse. No, what matters is that I am a better, more advanced person simply by virtue of owning them. I don't spend thousands of dollars more every year so I can be perceived the same as backward plebes!

What don't you guys understand about that?
 
David
Silver subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2017
Joined: Fri May 31, 2002 8:44 pm

Re: Why hasn't the 3.5mm jack/port been shrunk?

Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:05 pm

End User wrote:
Ikepuska wrote:
At the end of the day the question is simply will the 3.5mm jack exist on cellphones or not. I think it will, but whether it is internally or through an adapter, I don't know.

The mobile phone industry will quickly abandon the on device 3.5mm port. The USB Audio Device Class 3.0 specification, which standardizes audio over USB Type-C interface, was the final nail in coffin for the 3.5 mm jack in the smartphone market. The change has already begun.

Just like how Apple removing optical drives resulted in the PC industry abandoning them withing a couple of years.  Oh wait...
Xbox Live = narcon / Steam = narcon / PSN = Pontifex
 
Usacomp2k3
Gerbil God
Posts: 21735
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 4:53 pm
Location: Orlando, FL
Contact:

Re: Why hasn't the 3.5mm jack/port been shrunk?

Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:24 pm

It did for floppys with the original iMac.
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 50045
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Why hasn't the 3.5mm jack/port been shrunk?

Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:31 pm

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
It did for floppys with the original iMac.

It took a lot longer than "a couple of years" for the 3.5" floppy drive to (mostly) disappear though. The iMac debuted in 1998; yet Windows still required a 3.5" floppy drive if you needed extra drivers during Windows installation up until the release of Windows Vista, in 2007.

(Granted, they weren't used for much else by then, but they were still around and motherboards still had the connectors for them.)
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
whm1974
Gerbil Elder
Posts: 5491
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:29 am

Re: Why hasn't the 3.5mm jack/port been shrunk?

Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:43 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Usacomp2k3 wrote:
It did for floppys with the original iMac.

It took a lot longer than "a couple of years" for the 3.5" floppy drive to (mostly) disappear though. The iMac debuted in 1998; yet Windows still required a 3.5" floppy drive if you needed extra drivers during Windows installation up until the release of Windows Vista, in 2007.

(Granted, they weren't used for much else by then, but they were still around and motherboards still had the connectors for them.)

What killed the floppy drive were CD Burners and USB Flash Drives. I still have a DVD Burner in my system which I use for watching DVDs and burning Linux install media.
 
ludi
Darth Gerbil
Posts: 7535
Joined: Fri Jun 21, 2002 10:47 pm
Location: Sunny Colorado front range

Re: Why hasn't the 3.5mm jack/port been shrunk?

Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:00 pm

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
It did for floppys with the original iMac.

If I by "it did" you mean "created a vibrant aftermarket in color-matched USB floppy drives," then yeah, it did it spectacularly.

The iMac G3 launched in 1998 with only a CD-ROM drive (not RW, which wouldn't have mattered anyway given the price of media back then). The first two commercial USB flash drives appeared sometime in 2000, and it took another year for good units to commoditize. Win2k/XP likewise launched in 12/1999 and 10/2001 respectively, both of which handled USB devices far more gracefully than any Win9x/NT variant.  And thus you could finally exchange files between any two computers with a small, nonvolatile device, which was great...except for the three-ish years when the iMac G3 shipped without any means of low-cost file transfer.

Shorter: Apple declares standard obsolete before market is ready, cripples own product accordingly, people buy it anyway, aftermarket comes to the rescue.  Sounds oddly familiar.
Last edited by ludi on Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Abacus Model 2.5 | Quad-Row FX with 256 Cherry Red Slider Beads | Applewood Frame | Water Cooling by Brita Filtration
 
bhtooefr
Silver subscriber
Lord High Gerbil
Posts: 8191
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:20 am
Location: Newark, OH
Contact:

Re: Why hasn't the 3.5mm jack/port been shrunk?

Mon Oct 10, 2016 6:31 pm

Remember the fun that was installing XP on a machine where the storage drivers weren't bundled with Windows?

Where you had to either build yourself a new CD with the drivers manually slipstreamed, or get yourself a floppy drive just so you could hit F6 and install the driver?
Image
 
The Egg
Gold subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2271
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:46 pm

Re: Why hasn't the 3.5mm jack/port been shrunk?

Tue Oct 11, 2016 8:30 am

bhtooefr wrote:
Remember the fun that was installing XP on a machine where the storage drivers weren't bundled with Windows?

Where you had to either build yourself a new CD with the drivers manually slipstreamed, or get yourself a floppy drive just so you could hit F6 and install the driver?

I was still putting them in builds until around '06 for that reason. They were dirt-cheap and I had a stack in the closet. Also, many BIOS (what's the plural of BIOS?) still had trouble updating off anything other than a floppy (generally systems a few years old at that point).
 
K-L-Waster
Gerbil Team Leader
Posts: 214
Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:10 pm

Re: Why hasn't the 3.5mm jack/port been shrunk?

Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:47 am

just brew it! wrote:
End User wrote:
As far as cabled headphones go both USB and Lightning have us covered. Time to move on.

It adds cost, limits consumer choice, and given there are two different standards, it ties the headphones to being used with only a subset of the devices out there. What if I have one device that uses Lightning and one that uses USB? Do I need two sets of headphones? Extra adapters? Yuck.

Not to mention that if you did a blind comparison of headphones with  the same speaker hardware and the only difference was the connector type, you would be completely incapable of telling them apart. 
I'm all for moving technology forward, but removing connectors that work perfectly well just because they are beyond some arbitrary expiration date seems silly.
Main System: i7-8700K, ASUS ROG STRIX Z370-E, 16 GB DDR4 3200 RAM, MSI GTX 1080 TI, 1 TB CRUCIAL MX500, Corsair 550D

HTPC: I5-4460, ASUS H97M-E, 8 GB RAM, GTX 970, CRUCIAL 256GB MX100, SILVERSTONE GD09B
 
bhtooefr
Silver subscriber
Lord High Gerbil
Posts: 8191
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 11:20 am
Location: Newark, OH
Contact:

Re: Why hasn't the 3.5mm jack/port been shrunk?

Fri Oct 14, 2016 4:56 am

The Egg wrote:
Also, many BIOS (what's the plural of BIOS?) still had trouble updating off anything other than a floppy (generally systems a few years old at that point).

BIOSes (just like it's OSes to initialize "operating systems").

And I somehow forgot about that, although I generally did that using either USB floppy emulation, and it usually worked. (If the system was so old that it didn't support that, it probably had a floppy drive anyway. And, there was also CD floppy emulation, which also worked for BIOS flashing. The important part that I saw was getting it going in DOS.) Although, a few months ago, I actually had a reason to reflash a VIA EPIA from 2002, from within Windows, and it just... worked. No need to use a boot disk (and that board didn't have a floppy port, so...)
Image
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 50045
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Why hasn't the 3.5mm jack/port been shrunk?

Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:37 am

Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
End User
Gold subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2539
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Upper Canada

Re: Why hasn't the 3.5mm jack/port been shrunk?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 6:49 pm

1800X | 32GB | 1TB M.2 | Vega 64 + 38UC99-W | RX 480 + U2711
1950X | 64GB | 500 GB M.2 | 1 TB M.2 | 1 TB M.2 | GTX 1080 + XB271HU | GTX 1060 + U2713H
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 50045
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Why hasn't the 3.5mm jack/port been shrunk?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:39 pm

End User wrote:

A manufacturer with zero market presence in the US. I suppose with Samsung stumbling they may be able to pick up a few customers; we'll see. Leaving off a feature that most people still want isn't going to help though.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
whm1974
Gerbil Elder
Posts: 5491
Joined: Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:29 am

Re: Why hasn't the 3.5mm jack/port been shrunk?

Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:47 pm

just brew it! wrote:
End User wrote:

A manufacturer with zero market presence in the US. I suppose with Samsung stumbling they may be able to pick up a few customers; we'll see. Leaving off a feature that most people still want isn't going to help though.

Personally I can't see what is wrong with the 3.5mm port that it needs to be replaced. Even wireless headphones have their major drawbacks.
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 50045
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Why hasn't the 3.5mm jack/port been shrunk?

Wed Oct 26, 2016 9:53 pm

Looks like Apple has hit a snag: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/10/ ... er-window/

No AirPods for you!
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
superjawes
Gold subscriber
Gerbil Jedi
Posts: 1867
Joined: Thu May 28, 2009 9:49 am

Re: Why hasn't the 3.5mm jack/port been shrunk?

Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:23 pm

When they announced these, anyone with sense pointed out that they would probably fall out easily, sending $180 down the drain, gutter, or whatever. Perhaps they've realized this and delayed the AirPods until they can be secured in, on, or around their customers' ears.
On second thought, let's not go to TechReport. Tis a silly place.
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 50045
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Why hasn't the 3.5mm jack/port been shrunk?

Wed Oct 26, 2016 10:31 pm

IMO more likely it is a battery life or Bluetooth reception issue. When you place form above function sometimes the technical details get lost in the shuffle.

But "fall out too easily" is a possibility as well.

Or maybe they're catching fire like the Samsung phones. :lol:
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
Mr Bill
Gold subscriber
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1464
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: Colorado Western Slope
Contact:

Re: Why hasn't the 3.5mm jack/port been shrunk?

Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:05 pm

A little high fidelity bluetooth doohicky with a decent battery and a 3.5mm jack might be the perfect thing to go with these jackless/portless phones. Then you can use whatever your favorite headphones may happen to be.
X6 1100T BE | Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3 AM3+ | XFX HD 7870 | 16 GB DDR3 | Samsung 830/850 Pro SSD's | Logitech cherry MX-brown G710+ | Logitech G303 Daedalus Apex mouse | SeaSonic SS-660XP 80+ Pt | BenQ 24' 1900x1200 IPS | APC Back-UPS NS-1350 | WinXP64 Pro
 
Mr Bill
Gold subscriber
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1464
Joined: Mon Jan 21, 2002 7:00 pm
Location: Colorado Western Slope
Contact:

Re: Why hasn't the 3.5mm jack/port been shrunk?

Mon Nov 07, 2016 3:23 pm

Mr Bill wrote:
A little high fidelity bluetooth doohicky with a decent battery and a 3.5mm jack might be the perfect thing to go with these jackless/portless phones. Then you can use whatever your favorite headphones may happen to be.

Here we go... https://www.amazon.com/Kinivo-BTE40-Bluetooth-Stereo-Headphones/dp/B00HHGT0Y2/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1478550095&sr=8-2&keywords=bluetooth+receiver+for+headphones
X6 1100T BE | Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD3 AM3+ | XFX HD 7870 | 16 GB DDR3 | Samsung 830/850 Pro SSD's | Logitech cherry MX-brown G710+ | Logitech G303 Daedalus Apex mouse | SeaSonic SS-660XP 80+ Pt | BenQ 24' 1900x1200 IPS | APC Back-UPS NS-1350 | WinXP64 Pro
 
DPete27
Grand Gerbil Poohbah
Posts: 3213
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2011 12:50 pm
Location: Wisconsin, USA

Re: Why hasn't the 3.5mm jack/port been shrunk?

Mon Nov 07, 2016 5:33 pm

The 18th Apple dongle!!
Main: i5-3570K, ASRock Z77 Pro4-M, MSI RX480 8G, 500GB Crucial BX100, 2 TB Samsung EcoGreen F4, 16GB 1600MHz G.Skill @1.25V, EVGA 550-G2, Silverstone PS07B
HTPC: A8-5600K, MSI FM2-A75IA-E53, 4TB Seagate SSHD, 8GB 1866MHz G.Skill, Crosley D-25 Case Mod
 
End User
Gold subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2539
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:47 pm
Location: Upper Canada

Re: Why hasn't the 3.5mm jack/port been shrunk?

Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:36 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Looks like Apple has hit a snag: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016/10/ ... er-window/

No AirPods for you!

Absolutely not. I do not wear white earbuds of any kind. It is so gauche.
1800X | 32GB | 1TB M.2 | Vega 64 + 38UC99-W | RX 480 + U2711
1950X | 64GB | 500 GB M.2 | 1 TB M.2 | 1 TB M.2 | GTX 1080 + XB271HU | GTX 1060 + U2713H
 
ryan2112
Gerbil In Training
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:40 am

Re: Why hasn't the 3.5mm jack/port been shrunk?

Wed Nov 09, 2016 1:15 am

There was a 2.5mm jack as well, however since 3.5mm was a standard one it didn't needed any replacement.

Well they say, "Don't fix if its ain't broken."
  • 1
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests