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Rakhmaninov3
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Soundbar vs. speakers

Sat Nov 26, 2016 1:15 am

We usually watch TV and movies in a roughly 25'x12' room, across from the TV the short way (12'). With a budget of about $1000-1200, would a good soundbar and woofer be the best, or a more traditional stereo system with 2 big speakers? Not really interested in more than 2 speakers w/woofer max.

From what I'm seeing, seems the soundbar/woofer may be the better choice at that price point, and I listened to a couple in Best Buy that sounded surprisingly good. Would greatly appreciate any input regarding experience and suggested brands, thanks in advance!
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Re: Soundbar vs. speakers

Sat Nov 26, 2016 1:53 am

A room that size is a good candidate for multispeaker surround, but having tossed that option, a good soundbar & sub will probably be the most economical for movie/TV watching.  If you do any music listening as well, then a pair of good bookshelf or tower speakers will permit better stereo listening experience, and you can still get a decent "virtual center" effect for movie/TV if they are driven from a surround-enabled receiver.
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Re: Soundbar vs. speakers

Sat Nov 26, 2016 4:05 am

From my experience with sound bars, you aren't going to get more out of your money past the $500-600 point as far as quality is concerned. If you have the budget for twice that I would go with two floor standing towers. This would also leave you open to add more speakers to the system at a later time.
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Re: Soundbar vs. speakers

Sat Nov 26, 2016 4:38 am

For the same budget I would almost certainly recommend a HTIB for a room that size.

Soundbars are compromises, but I've heard some half decent ones - in particular the Yamaha options at that sort of price level. I'm presuming you don't have the physical space for bookshelf speakers or floorstanders? It just seems a shame to throw north of $500 into a soundbar when you consider what sort of bookshelf setup or HTIB you can buy for that.
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Rakhmaninov3
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Re: Soundbar vs. speakers

Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:17 pm

Thank you for the input! I think I'll probably look for some tower speakers if the money would be better spent that way. Good point about the flexibility of adding speakers for more surround effect in the future if I wanted.

My main hesitation regarding surround systems with a lot of speakers is placement -- the walls and furniture setup in the room are such that I think it would be more practical to fill the room with good sound from either of the above options rather than futzing with a bunch of small speakers.

Any suggestions on brands for receivers & speakers? And thanks again!
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havanu
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Re: Soundbar vs. speakers

Sat Nov 26, 2016 5:44 pm

Two bookshelves + subwoofer will probably sound best.
Twin floorstanders is also an option, although bass wise they often underperform compared to the above combo for anything home theatre related.
You'll need a budget multichannel receiver as well, connecting all of that together.
Money well spent, with plenty of possible upgrade paths later on.
A centre channel speaker is the first thing i'd add down the line, surrounds are far less important in most situations.
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Re: Soundbar vs. speakers

Sun Nov 27, 2016 4:17 am

My impression is that soundbars came about because TVs decided they needed to be borderless, so no room for real speakers.
Separate speakers should be nicer for movies, if you don't mind the extra space they take.

I often see the Pioneer SP-BS22 bookshelf speakers recommended for nice high-end of the low-end speakers. They're not too small, though.
They're $130 a pair but semi-often on sale. Consider adding their matching center speaker, SP-C22 for $90 (also on sale semi-often).

For a subwoofer, there's no need to match it with the other speakers so you're better off avoiding Pioneer.
There are a few decent low-end options at around $200 for 12" speaker models (BIC, maybe Polk, or Klipsch), and nicer ones at $300-400 (sometimes SVS at the high end of this range). Mind you, a 12" sub is quite a big cube you have to place somewhere. :)

Finally, you need a receiver, where there's more to choose from. There are probably various nice ones on sale right now for $300-400, or less.

Check AVSforum for more discussion:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/88-audio/
 
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Re: Soundbar vs. speakers

Sun Nov 27, 2016 11:33 am

Nice info, thanks everyone!
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Re: Soundbar vs. speakers

Sun Nov 27, 2016 1:56 pm

I have a Vizio sound bar with wireless sub with rear surrounds that attach to the sub. I think it sounds ok for what it is. It makes hiding the rear speakers easy.

https://www.vizio.com/sb4551d5.html
 
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Re: Soundbar vs. speakers

Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:00 pm

You have a ton of options, If you go with the separate speakers I highly recommend a center channel so when the voices are coming out of a face on the screen it is coming from right in front of you like it should, voices off to the side or in background will come out of the side speakers etc.

The choice is completely yours, but keep researching and whatever you buy make sure you can return it. BTW keep Monoprice in mind they have odd stuff thats is not bad and you might find something decent there for cheap, just a example for my 55" 100+lb plasma all fully adjustable wall mounts were in the 200-250$ price range and i picked up a even better one from monoprice for 40$
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Re: Soundbar vs. speakers

Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:30 pm

Just want to float an idea - I've been very satisfied with powered bookshelf-type speakers from the low end (home studio) studio monitors. They have a very flat frequency response and are aiming to put out very true sound. Others may know better than I do whether the other suggestions here are actually better for movie and TV audio, but I've been really pleased with, and got compliments for, my alesis m1 active 520usb, which are far from best in class (now I'd go for krk rokit 6 or 8s or similar. 2dB roll off down to 35Hz and up to 35kHz).

They are 'near field' monitors and if there is a lot of reverb in the room you might find they don't fill the space evenly compared to other systems, but I don't know, I haven't used other things for a number of years. Good luck.
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Re: Soundbar vs. speakers

Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:31 pm

Just want to float an idea - I've been very satisfied with powered bookshelf-type speakers from the low end (home studio) studio monitors. They have a very flat frequency response and are aiming to put out very true sound. Others may know better than I do whether the other suggestions here are actually better for movie and TV audio, but I've been really pleased with, and got compliments for, my alesis m1 active 520usb, which are far from best in class (now I'd go for krk rokit 6 or 8s or similar. 2dB roll off down to 35Hz and up to 35kHz).

They are 'near field' monitors and if there is a lot of reverb in the room you might find they don't fill the space evenly compared to other systems, but I don't know, I haven't used other things for a number of years. Good luck.
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Re: Soundbar vs. speakers

Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:38 pm

atcrank wrote:
2dB roll off down to 35Hz and up to 35kHz).  

Not a bad idea, actually. Near field speakers tend to do well in smaller sized rooms. Those numbers are a tad optimistic, however. They probably roll off at about 50Hz, considering their size (Their own website claims 56Hz - 20kHz). Which is still pretty decent. This pair doesn't have a sub out, however, so hooking one up will be impossible if you go that route.
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Re: Soundbar vs. speakers

Sun Nov 27, 2016 7:27 pm

Yeah, I've driven a TV from home studio monitors before. Works pretty well and you can drive them straight off the headphone output of the TV if you only want stereo and the added bonus is that you only need to use the TV remote to change volume.

Not worth spending big money on though as so many TV shows and movies are better with surround sound, but certainly a great budget option for the ~$250 it's likely to cost for a couple of 5-8" monitors.
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Re: Soundbar vs. speakers

Sun Nov 27, 2016 8:36 pm

Btw Good feature of the Alesis is having power and volume for both speakers on the front of one. You probably won't want to leave the Amps running the whole time.

Havanu: I think maybe you were just looking at Rokit 4s? The Amps improve as you go up the range.
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Re: Soundbar vs. speakers

Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:47 am

atcrank wrote:
Havanu: I think maybe you were just looking at Rokit 4s? The Amps improve as you go up the range.

Sorry, I was referring to your own speakers. The Rokkit's indeed could go lower and higher.
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Re: Soundbar vs. speakers

Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:40 am

I have a Vizio sound bar for my smart TV. It serves my purpose well, FYI small closet. For medium sized, two bookshelves along with a decent bass would be bass
 
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Re: Soundbar vs. speakers

Fri May 12, 2017 5:10 am

Since this thread is on the topic, anyone know of any good guides or review sites for speakers/sound bars? I have a subscription to consumer reports (which seem generally good), but their handling of sound systems is rather sad.

My wife has back problems so we can't go to the movie theater for a while, so I'm getting a bigger TV soon for home movies. I'd like to get a decent sound system without spending a ridiculous amount of money (sub $500 -- which is already a ton of money). From what I've read a receiver is something you really can't skimp on, but I'm pretty new to everything.

I figure the answer would help the OP too. (Though I just realized most of this conversation is from last November).
 
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Re: Soundbar vs. speakers

Fri May 12, 2017 6:10 am

Consumer Reports reviews soundbars on a fairly regular basis. I would read their ratings before making a purchase.
 
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Re: Soundbar vs. speakers

Fri May 12, 2017 7:01 am

cjcerny wrote:
Consumer Reports reviews soundbars on a fairly regular basis. I would read their ratings before making a purchase.


He... he brought up CR in the second sentence...
 
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Re: Soundbar vs. speakers

Fri May 12, 2017 9:36 am

"... anyone know of any good guides or review sites for speakers/sound bars?"

I'll throw in my $0.02 regarding soundbars. About 5 yrs ago, I purchased an inexpensive Visio soundbar that did not include a sub, based on a number of positive reviews that claimed that it was good for movies and OK for music even though it lacked deep bass. I thought that both movies and music sounded very hollow using this soundbar. It was better than the speakers in the TV, but not nearly enough so for me. I would never buy a soundbar without a sub again, whether or not reviews claimed it was OK.
 
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Re: Soundbar vs. speakers

Fri May 12, 2017 9:41 am

Drachasor wrote:
Since this thread is on the topic, anyone know of any good guides or review sites for speakers/sound bars? I have a subscription to consumer reports (which seem generally good), but their handling of sound systems is rather sad.

My wife has back problems so we can't go to the movie theater for a while, so I'm getting a bigger TV soon for home movies. I'd like to get a decent sound system without spending a ridiculous amount of money (sub $500 -- which is already a ton of money). From what I've read a receiver is something you really can't skimp on, but I'm pretty new to everything.

I figure the answer would help the OP too. (Though I just realized most of this conversation is from last November).

I spent about $350 CAD on my sound bar (an LG). The big thing to watch is the watts output so you get the loudness you want.

Also think on how you are connecting it... if you go ARC, it works best with matching brands between TV and sound bar.
I have a Sony TV and it turns on the sound bar at power on, but does not wait long enough for the sound bar to synch before swapping back to TV speakers.
Leads to either the sound bar going to optical or having both the TV and sound bar with sound but the bar has no volume control until I manually swap to it.
 
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Re: Soundbar vs. speakers

Fri May 12, 2017 10:23 am

Why not a full 5.1 setup? Just too much stuff to deal with?

For well within your budget, you can get the Pioneer SP-PK52FS 5.1 system and a good 5.1 receiver and have top notch sound. I have those speakers with a Sony DN-850 and couldn't be happier with the sound when gaming or watching a good action movie.

If you really don't want the 5.1, then I'd check out the Sonos Sound Bar and Sonos Sub. They are overpriced (but still well within your budget), but they are a good entry point into the Sonos ecosystem. Later, you can add surrounds if you want to, or just add other sonos speakers around your house for sound everywhere for parties, etc. No receiver needed as far as I know.

Pioneer also has a soundbar system, but that would require a receiver as well.

Anyway you go, be sure to get a subwoofer. Nothing like good, deep bass for movies, music, and games.
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Re: Soundbar vs. speakers

Sun May 14, 2017 1:14 am

I.S.T. wrote:
cjcerny wrote:
Consumer Reports reviews soundbars on a fairly regular basis. I would read their ratings before making a purchase.


He... he brought up CR in the second sentence...


Indeed. Maybe I just have no sense of scale, but when all the Sound Bars top out at 65 or so out of 100 on CR...it just doesn't seem like sound bars are all that great. On top of that, when they try to emulate surround sound, I hear that is very hit or miss and depends a lot on the sound bar and on the size/shape of the room. They also ONLY do sound bars, so no help with looking at speakers or receivers. That also makes it very hard to compare sound bars to speaker/receiver setups.

It's not hard to run wires across the ceiling or around walls, so I'm perfectly happy doing so for speakers.

I did find this guide which seems pretty good: http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/build-home-theater-cheap/
But them I'm not an audiophile or any kind of expert.
I did confirm that the Monoprice 8247 (just $90) 5.1 speaker system has pretty good reviews (far better than most things in the same price range). It should work for at least a while and then if/when I upgrade to better speakers I can have my computer use them.

Similarly I could go with the low budget receiver they recommend (Yamaha RX-V379 for $230). That or the Onkyo TX-RZ610 which Amazon has for $500. They seem like the most reasonable buys -- but again, I'm pretty inexperienced with this.

I've heard ARC is pretty hit or miss in whether it works or not. So I'm not going to count on it. Sound will probably be coming from the computer anyhow which we use for downloaded videos, hulu, netflix, etc.

That's about where I am at anyhow.
 
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Re: Soundbar vs. speakers

Sun May 14, 2017 6:02 am

Soundbars will never be particularly loud or bassy, Think of them as the first, most compact upgrade over the TV's in-built speakers.

Cheap surround systems or HTIBs come with small drivers and a sub, just like better soundbars will be ideally paired with a sub. You get thumping bass but there's usually a gap in the midrange, or else the midrange just sounds vague and mushy. If you don't care much for music and just want clear dialogue and thumping bass for your action movies, then the small satellites of a cheap surround system or soundbar with sub are plenty good enough.

If you don't have space constraints and you value the quality of the sound, get yourself larger cabinets with larger drivers for better quality sound; Once you get 5"-6" drivers there's already enough bass to make a subwoofer unnecessary, at least for rooms of a normal size....
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Re: Soundbar vs. speakers

Sun May 14, 2017 6:24 am

Hmm - this thread reminds me of back when I used to have a tv... 15 years ago! :O

(I ran it through the stereo hi-fi I had at the time and it sounded good, though no sub - (NAD C320BEE Amp + Acoustic Energy Aegis One bookshelf speakers - still got them, but don't use them as everything is via my computer now, and I have some basic (they were dirt cheap (£40/pair at the time - I bought 2! - (I think they made a mistake!))) nearfield stereo monitors for that instead.)
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Re: Soundbar vs. speakers

Sun May 14, 2017 10:14 am

Aether wrote:
"... anyone know of any good guides or review sites for speakers/sound bars?"

I'll throw in my $0.02 regarding soundbars. About 5 yrs ago, I purchased an inexpensive Visio soundbar that did not include a sub, based on a number of positive reviews that claimed that it was good for movies and OK for music even though it lacked deep bass. I thought that both movies and music sounded very hollow using this soundbar. It was better than the speakers in the TV, but not nearly enough so for me. I would never buy a soundbar without a sub again, whether or not reviews claimed it was OK.

Heh I just picked one up myself. I don't know about their older stuff but it seems like the new stuff is well liked with or without the sub.
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Re: Soundbar vs. speakers

Sun May 14, 2017 10:17 am

KeillRandor wrote:
Hmm - this thread reminds me of back when I used to have a tv... 15 years ago! :O

(I ran it through the stereo hi-fi I had at the time and it sounded good, though no sub - (NAD C320BEE Amp + Acoustic Energy Aegis One bookshelf speakers - still got them, but don't use them as everything is via my computer now, and I have some basic (they were dirt cheap (£40/pair at the time - I bought 2! - (I think they made a mistake!))) nearfield stereo monitors for that instead.)


I had to use BODMAS to decode your comment :)

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Re: Soundbar vs. speakers

Sun May 14, 2017 10:20 am

I needed an external sound system as my TV speakers do not project speech well at all. My goal was to obtain audio clarity. I live in a multi unit building so massive sound was not my priority.

My primary audio space is 11" x 11" with the major downside that it is an open concept suit (downside as far as audio goes). Cable management was going to be a problem as I did not want any audio cables beyond the base unit.

I went with a Sonos setup - Plapbar/SUB/2x Play:1(rears). I have yet to go above 50% volume as the setup is extremely powerful. Audio clarity is excellent. Surround sound is more than adequate. The ability to manage the setup via my mobile devices is fantastic (I control every device via my mobile devices). I'm very happy with my purchase.
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Re: Soundbar vs. speakers

Sun May 14, 2017 10:22 am

KeillRandor wrote:
Hmm - this thread reminds me of back when I used to have a tv... 15 years ago! :O

Saying I have a TV is like saying I have a phone in my pocket.

Do you have a media display device in your living room?
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