TR Forums

Waco wrote:

Most modern amps are pretty darn good, though.

Probably, but I've spent my 35+ years in the audio pursuits looking for products like the original 3020. The products that punch FAR above their price tags, mainly because they were designed by an individual or team of individuals, rather than just using any-old circuit design out of a book. It's how I've come to the rather eclectic rig I now own, most of which I've bought used from Audiogon or traded for locally.

I will also confess to being a Stereophile reader since 1986 and thus have a touch of the nervosa.

Captain Ned wrote:

Waco wrote:

Most modern amps are pretty darn good, though.

Probably, but I've spent my 35+ years in the audio pursuits looking for products like the original 3020. The products that punch FAR above their price tags, mainly because they were designed by an individual or team of individuals, rather than just using any-old circuit design out of a book. It's how I've come to the rather eclectic rig I now own, most of which I've bought used from Audiogon or traded for locally.

I will also confess to being a Stereophile reader since 1986 and thus have a touch of the nervosa.

Ha, I hear ya. When I think audiophile, two things come to mind...those who use their ears, and that article.

Waco wrote:

When I think audiophile, two things come to mind...those who use their ears, and that article.

I'm a rhythm 'n' pace guy. It needs to get my toes a-tappin'. Since I rarely listen to orchestral music, I have no need for soundstaging, image depth, and all of the other associated things the hardcore nervosa bleat on about into the mega-buck range, nor do I have a room of the size and expanse needed to make soundstaging work properly (the rule of thirds essentially means a listening room no smaller than 30' x 40' for large full-range 20Hz-capable speakers). That's for the Powerball house. I do, though, want the lows to be there (but not WAY TOO MUCH like the bondo-rattlers on the roads), and I'd prefer timbral accuracy as well. I don't have perfect pitch, but I've listened to many of my favorites so many times that if the pitch accuracy isn't right, I immediately notice it. I also notice if pitch relations aren't right.

I'm in the same camp, really, but with more varied tastes (I do enjoy classical/orchestral scores). I don't care much for perfect soundstage, imaging, etc as long as it's not horrendous. Distortion and power compression I notice pretty quickly and ruin my enjoyment.

Waco wrote:

I'm in the same camp, really, but with more varied tastes (I do enjoy classical/orchestral scores). I don't care much for perfect soundstage, imaging, etc as long as it's not horrendous. Distortion and power compression I notice pretty quickly and ruin my enjoyment.

I think it really depends on the recording. I thought that soundstaging was bunk (I got the concept, I just thought it had no real-world application), but a friend's setup and a SACD recordings changed my mind a bit - it can be important but the mastering matters.

He liked classical music and on his 5.1 setup you could actually tell the spacial separation between instruments. I connected my phone to his setup and played some stereo 320Kbit MP3's and... nothing. They sounded nice but you could really tell that his setup did nothing special for it.

HERETIC wrote:

Ever since we started using Mosfet outputs in our amps the quality of sound from our amps has continued to improve.

Usually there are only MOSFETs in the output stage of a Class D amplifier, which is a switchmode device and those can have other issues if the output filter is designed incorrectly. There a couple esoteric designs using lateral FETs which do make for a very good linear amplifier, but those aren't common. A majority of receiver-type amplifiers out there still use traditional BJTs. Like everything else that depends on advances in materials science, transistor quality has become very good in the past 25 years, and even a mass-produced cheap amplifier can have very good sound quality.

In modern gear, the worst offenders for sound quality are often the cheap "T-amps" and other ultra-compact designs that rely on budget Class D or single-chip amplifiers originally developed for automotive applications, but most people don't run those hard enough to notice (desktop) or can't tell due to a noisy listening environment (car cabin).

I love the little T amps for casual listening. A Lepai 2020a+ with an upgraded power brick can sing nicely if you're not listening to overly dynamic sources and your speakers are halfway efficient.

I had a larger T amp from Topping that would do an easy 80 WPC, but it exploded catastrophically after 2 years of relatively easy running powering a set of Advent Heritage towers. The little T chip exploded in a big gout of fire.

There's also Monoprice hybrid tube amps. This one is rated at 50w+ pc into 4 ohms. Should be enough power for the KEFs in the OP. These amps are currently 20% off ($160)...

cynan wrote:

There's also Monoprice hybrid tube amps. This one is rated at 50w+ pc into 4 ohms. Should be enough power for the KEFs in the OP. These amps are currently 20% off ($160)...

Damn, that's a sexy little amp. I don't have much affinity for tubes, but that would make a good looking centerpiece of an office/study setup.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=109&cp_id=10919&cs_id=1091903&p_id=16153&seq=1&format=2

"The addition of the tube preamplifier stage adds back some of the warmth and richness, breathing new life into your digital music..."

notinuse wrote:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=109&cp_id=10919&cs_id=1091903&p_id=16153&seq=1&format=2

"The addition of the tube preamplifier stage adds back some of the warmth and richness, breathing new life into your digital music..."

If Monoprice didn't offer it, someone else would. There's no fixing magical thinking. See: Monster Cable.

Vhalidictes wrote:

notinuse wrote:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=109&cp_id=10919&cs_id=1091903&p_id=16153&seq=1&format=2

"The addition of the tube preamplifier stage adds back some of the warmth and richness, breathing new life into your digital music..."

If Monoprice didn't offer it, someone else would. There's no fixing magical thinking. See: Monster Cable.

For $160 amp you guys are overthinking it. Either it sounds good and looks nice on your desk, or it doesn't. Sure, maybe the tube stage is a gimmick, or is compensating for a less than perfectly implemented solid state design by inducing frequency roll off minimizing harsh harmonics... For the money, I think this thing is definitely asthetically pleasing, looks to be of decent build quality (at least externally) and many seem pleased enough with the sound for its application. Tube preamp stages also offer the opportunity to "roll your own", (kind of like swapping op amps in solid state designs) if that sort of hobby appeals.

cynan wrote:

Vhalidictes wrote:

notinuse wrote:

https://www.monoprice.com/product?c_id=109&cp_id=10919&cs_id=1091903&p_id=16153&seq=1&format=2

"The addition of the tube preamplifier stage adds back some of the warmth and richness, breathing new life into your digital music..."

If Monoprice didn't offer it, someone else would. There's no fixing magical thinking. See: Monster Cable.

For $160 amp you guys are overthinking it. Either it sounds good and looks nice on your desk, or it doesn't. Sure, maybe the tube stage is a gimmick, or is compensating for a less than perfectly implemented solid state design by inducing frequency roll off minimizing harsh harmonics... For the money, I think this thing is definitely asthetically pleasing, looks to be of decent build quality (at least externally) and many seem pleased enough with the sound for its application. Tube preamp stages also offer the opportunity to "roll your own", (kind of like swapping op amps in solid state designs) if that sort of hobby appeals.

Exactly.

I'm not particularly enamored with "tube sound" or anything like that, but that's a nice looking amp and I would imagine it sounds pretty darn good to my not golden ears.

I realize all of that. It doesn't mean the ad copy isn't hyperbolic baloney.

notinuse wrote:

I realize all of that. It doesn't mean the ad copy isn't hyperbolic baloney.

Well tubes do offer a signature sound that could be described as they have done.

Waco wrote:

notinuse wrote:

I realize all of that. It doesn't mean the ad copy isn't hyperbolic baloney.

Well tubes do offer a signature sound that could be described as they have done.

But won't the sterile, brittle sound of the solid state power amplifier destroy the warm and rich sound of the tube-based preamp?

notinuse wrote:

Waco wrote:

notinuse wrote:

I realize all of that. It doesn't mean the ad copy isn't hyperbolic baloney.

Well tubes do offer a signature sound that could be described as they have done.

But won't the sterile, brittle sound of the solid state power amplifier destroy the warm and rich sound of the tube-based preamp?

They offset.

I always enjoyed this argument. Solid state amps are faithful to the mix, and some mixes were tailored for the amplifiers of the time (tubes with natural rolloff and warmth). A mix for one sounds **** on the other, in general.