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MOSFET
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Re: DAC+Amp Suggestion

Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:55 pm

DragonDaddyBear wrote:
...I'm thinking I'd like to get something with balanced inputs if at all possible. I assume they have little practical benefit in such short runs, though?


True, balanced has little effect outside of nervosa.
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Re: DAC+Amp Suggestion

Thu Mar 14, 2019 11:48 pm

MOSFET wrote:
DragonDaddyBear wrote:
...I'm thinking I'd like to get something with balanced inputs if at all possible. I assume they have little practical benefit in such short runs, though?


True, balanced has little effect outside of nervosa.

Seconded. Balanced line is designed for stage runs where line-level audio cables are rolled out from giant spools in parallel with a lot of other signal and power wires, and the signal conductors can pick up tremendous amounts of noise. Since two signal conductors will pick up the noise in-phase, running the desired signal anti-phase on two conductors allows for a simple comparator check at the destination, which passes the valid anti-phase signal while dumping the in-phase noise.

Adding balanced for set top use adds complexity to the audio path where none is needed or desirable. Those who want to use it anyway are welcome to it, but typically, K.I.S.S. and go home happy.
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DragonDaddyBear
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Re: DAC+Amp Suggestion

Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:52 am

I do sound board stuff every once in a while. Cables get piled up in the back. All of that makes for an electrically noisy spot. I'll say even the cheap Behringer uca202 makes a world of difference. It's what I use on my cheap board at home.

I think I've settled on the Jotunheim Multibit. I thought it over and if it has every feature I'd ever realistically want then it might be the last one I buy, or at least for a looooong while. So while spendy it may be a better value in that I only buy one.

One little problem, though. My truck just started puking oil >_< I need to make sure I don't need to swap my engine before I go buying a DAC that costs as much as a new one (LM7's are cheap). I'm hoping it's a cracked oil sensor or a bolt lose, but with almost 250,000 miles it's probably not.
 
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Re: DAC+Amp Suggestion

Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:00 am

DragonDaddyBear wrote:
I think I've settled on the Jotunheim Multibit. I thought it over and if it has every feature I'd ever realistically want then it might be the last one I buy, or at least for a looooong while. So while spendy it may be a better value in that I only buy one.


I'm late to the party but I'm in a unique position to comment here as I have the Jotunheim Multibit on my desk at the office and the Magni+Modi Multibit at home. I started with the latter and eventually purchased the former so I could have a DAC+AMP at each location.

The Jotunheim is amazing and can basically drive anything in my experience (especially via its balanced output which can drive up to 500mW through cans with 600 ohm impedance compared to 230mW for the Magni's single-ended output). Having said that, if you're not trying to drive extremely demanding cans I think you'd be quite happy with the Magni+Modi combo. The comment I kept reading before I bought it was that you would have to spend several times its cost to get significant improvement. I haven't made those comparisons but I'm extremely happy with it.

If you're anywhere near Kansas City let me know and you can listen to both of them. :)
 
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Re: DAC+Amp Suggestion

Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:22 am

I wish I was down that way. It would be great to try it out first hand.
EDIT: Ooooor, rather why not meet up at the BBQ? I'm not in need of it now. I can wait. We could do listening party. Goes great with the beer! It would help pick out headphones, too!


The cans I have now are easy to drive. BUT, what if i want different ones? What if I want balanced out? What if, what if, what if... With the Jotunheim I would want for nothing.

Having said that, have you tried the output of the Jotunheim into the Mangi vs the modi? Does the DAC make a noticeable difference? The whole multibit thing is what really got me on this path. Sure, you can take the Modi multibit, but then you're at $350 total. Soooo, my thought is why not spring for the better DAC, AND amp AND outputs? Each is adds up to less than a $100 upgrade per feature. Seemed reasonable in my mind. Then I'm not buying more later on just to have one little feature.
 
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Re: DAC+Amp Suggestion

Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:32 am

DragonDaddyBear wrote:
EDIT: Ooooor, rather why not meet up at the BBQ? I'm not in need of it now. I can wait. We could do listening party. Goes great with the beer! It would help pick out headphones, too!

Good idea. I can bring both AQ DragonFlys and the Oppo cans as well.
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Re: DAC+Amp Suggestion

Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:58 am

DragonDaddyBear wrote:
I wish I was down that way. It would be great to try it out first hand.
EDIT: Ooooor, rather why not meet up at the BBQ? I'm not in need of it now. I can wait. We could do listening party. Goes great with the beer! It would help pick out headphones, too!


The cans I have now are easy to drive. BUT, what if i want different ones? What if I want balanced out? What if, what if, what if... With the Jotunheim I would want for nothing.

Having said that, have you tried the output of the Jotunheim into the Mangi vs the modi? Does the DAC make a noticeable difference? The whole multibit thing is what really got me on this path. Sure, you can take the Modi multibit, but then you're at $350 total. Soooo, my thought is why not spring for the better DAC, AND amp AND outputs? Each is adds up to less than a $100 upgrade per feature. Seemed reasonable in my mind. Then I'm not buying more later on just to have one little feature.


Alas, I have never been to the BBQ and that seems unlikely to change this year.

I definitely know where you're coming from, I'm a fan of the "Buy Once Cry Once" school of thought. And I don't see myself ever buying anything above the Jot, so there's that. :D

Since it sounds like you're more interested in the Jot I would encourage you to keep an eye on the used forums at head-fi.org. There aren't any for sale at the moment but recent sales have been in the $250-280 range (without the DAC). They have a seller feedback system and in my experience (bought a few items there) the sellers take really good care of their stuff.

Schiit will sell you the multibit module separately and it's not too difficult to install if you take your time. This is the exact route that I took to get my Jot multibit BTW, so if you run into any trouble with the install or have other questions just ping me.
 
DragonDaddyBear
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Re: DAC+Amp Suggestion

Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:31 pm

Update: I now know what I want but all options are ioff the table. The rainbow in the wet driveway wasn't oil but fuel. Lines ruptured making a bad problem worse very quickly. Because it's hard line and all of them are shot, requiring the tank to be dropped, I'm having a mechanic do it. So there goes that budget.

I appreciate the discussion and helping me figure out what I want. I look forward to hearing style at the BBQ.
 
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Re: DAC+Amp Suggestion

Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:42 pm

Ah, the famed "Check Engine" light, also called the "F*** You" light.

Am I the only one who really thinks that car manufacturers should just change the engine symbol to "[ $$$ ]" ?
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Re: DAC+Amp Suggestion

Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:00 pm

My current car has a wrench icon for the maintenance minder. It pops up when oil life remaining reaches 15% or when any of the scheduled maintenance items are due. The "Check Engine" light is completely separate. Note, however, that something as trivial as leaving the gas cap loose can trigger a check engine alert on modern vehicles.
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superjawes
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Re: DAC+Amp Suggestion

Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:04 pm

Not to get TOO far off topic, but picking up an OBD code scanner can help with identifying why your Check Engine light is on. Pretty sure there are cheaper models than the linked one that still get the job done, too.
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Re: DAC+Amp Suggestion

Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:41 pm

superjawes wrote:
Not to get TOO far off topic, but picking up an OBD code scanner can help with identifying why your Check Engine light is on. Pretty sure there are cheaper models than the linked one that still get the job done, too.

Some vehicles have a way to access the OBD codes without a scanner. E.g., my Chrysler minivan scrolls any stored codes across the odometer if you turn the ignition key on and off multiple times in a very specific sequence.
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Airmantharp
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Re: DAC+Amp Suggestion

Thu Mar 21, 2019 5:19 am

RE: balanced- it doesn't make much sense for most purposes, but I have found that noise can be introduced around PCs in a variety of ways and a balanced path pretty much eliminates them.
Alongside optical output to a balanced DAC to get ground separation as well, at the very least the analog signal is guaranteed to be 'clean'.

[with respect to balanced headphones, it's about power...]
 
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Re: DAC+Amp Suggestion

Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:24 am

Airmantharp wrote:
RE: balanced- it doesn't make much sense for most purposes, but I have found that noise can be introduced around PCs in a variety of ways and a balanced path pretty much eliminates them.
Alongside optical output to a balanced DAC to get ground separation as well, at the very least the analog signal is guaranteed to be 'clean'.

[with respect to balanced headphones, it's about power...]

I can second the PC noise, but in my experience it was only from within the case. I have a Creative Fatal1ty sound card with a CD drive bay front panel. I had issues with my old graphics card and using the front panel for audio with introducing a ton of noise when I played any game. I think if you have a sufficiently metallic PC case (IE not plastic or large panels of glass) you shouldn't have many issues with noise from electronics reaching outside the case except maybe around the powersupply and it's cable.
 
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Re: DAC+Amp Suggestion

Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:33 am

morphine wrote:
Ah, the famed "Check Engine" light, also called the "F*** You" light.

Am I the only one who really thinks that car manufacturers should just change the engine symbol to "[ $$$ ]" ?

There was no check engine light. I read those codes. I didn't suspect a fuel leak because I had a P0440 code for an evap issue. I put a new gas cap on but I figured the solinoid just bit the dust and that's why I'd been smelling a little fuel. When it ruptured it was raining very heavy so I thought the rainbowing on the ground was oil. I couldn't smell gas at that point. Then it dried up and, well, it needed fixing. It was surprising because it didn't seem to lose much power given how low the fuel pressure must have been.

On a note for the OBD scanner, get a Bluetooth one. The WiFi one I have breaks my cell internet connection. It's annoying to look up codes and try to connect back to the device.

Acidicheartburn wrote:
I can second the PC noise, but in my experience it was only from within the case. I have a Creative Fatal1ty sound card with a CD drive bay front panel. I had issues with my old graphics card and using the front panel for audio with introducing a ton of noise when I played any game. I think if you have a sufficiently metallic PC case (IE not plastic or large panels of glass) you shouldn't have many issues with noise from electronics reaching outside the case except maybe around the powersupply and it's cable.


Yeah, that's why I was thinking of having the feature "just in case." I really like amp. I'll keep hunting for a used one for a while or save up for a new one. The wife appreciated the logic behind how I ended up wanting the Joutenheim. I'm a "buy once" kind of person and that's about as good as it gets per dollar as far as I can tell.

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