Personal computing discussed

Moderators: renee, Captain Ned

 
The Egg
Gold subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Topic Author
Posts: 2925
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:46 pm

Bluetooth-To-Analog Adapter Frustration

Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:55 pm

Hey guys. My workplace has office phones which use a rear analog RJ9 port for separate headset connections. Some months back, I got tired of shoulder-pinching, and decided to grab one of these adapters --- which converts the RJ9 to dual 3.5mm stereo connections --- and a cheapo headset. It works fine; exactly as expected.

I would now like to upgrade to a wireless headset. Apparently anything with a native RJ9 connection is over $200, uses only a single earpiece, and/or has crap ergonomics. I'd like to use my own bluetooth headset. And that's where the problem lies....

Apparently there is no such thing as a bluetooth-to-analog adapter with simultanous transmitting/receiving, such as you would use with a headset. Those which would appear to do this are all made for use in cars, and only accept mic input from a small microphone built into the device itself. None will accept mic transmission through the bluetooth connection (as you would with a headset), nor do they accept input via analog (for transmission back to the headset). Everything else is made for home stereos, and only works in one direction.

Am I just searching using the wrong terms? Do I have some sort of brain fog or early-onset dementia? I had no anticipation that it would be this difficult.
 
meerkt
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1438
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:55 am

Re: Bluetooth-To-Analog Adapter Frustration

Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:16 am

Something else I'd love to have: cheap/small USB to Bluetooth for keyboards, and maybe mice.
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 53483
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Bluetooth-To-Analog Adapter Frustration

Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:10 am

meerkt wrote:
Something else I'd love to have: cheap/small USB to Bluetooth for keyboards, and maybe mice.

Do you mean a USB adapter to allow Bluetooth keyboards and mice to be used on a system without native Bluetooth support, or an adapter to convert a wired keyboard/mouse to Bluetooth? The former already exists; the latter isn't particularly practical because you'd still need to provide power to the keyboard/mouse somehow.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
meerkt
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1438
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:55 am

Re: Bluetooth-To-Analog Adapter Frustration

Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:42 am

1-2 AA batteries + electronics. Stick to the bottom of the keyboard.
Mice are more of a problem, so that's the "maybe" up there.
Last edited by meerkt on Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
Usacomp2k3
Gerbil God
Posts: 23043
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 4:53 pm
Location: Orlando, FL
Contact:

Re: Bluetooth-To-Analog Adapter Frustration

Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:44 am

meerkt wrote:
1-2 AA batteries + electronics. Stick to the bottom of the keyboard.

I assume you're not serious.
 
meerkt
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1438
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:55 am

Re: Bluetooth-To-Analog Adapter Frustration

Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:46 am

I am.

Maybe the situation is better nowadays, but the last time I was looking there were barely any BT keyboards.
Could be useful to be able to choose a nice keyboard from the wide variety of wired ones, then turn it into a generic wireless one.
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 53483
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Bluetooth-To-Analog Adapter Frustration

Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:48 am

meerkt wrote:
1-2 AA batteries + electronics. Stick to the bottom of the keyboard.

Unless the keyboard is designed for low power the battery life is probably gonna suck, and anything with LED illumination will be a complete non-starter unless you enjoy daily battery changes. You will also have to bundle up all the extra USB cable length and keep it out of the way somehow, unless the keyboard has a removable cable you can swap for a shorter one. Given the shortcomings and general kludginess, I doubt there's enough of a market for something like this to make it worthwhile for someone to produce it in volume. IOW you'd probably need to "roll your own".

And that approach is definitely not gonna work for mice. :wink:
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
SuperSpy
Gold subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Posts: 2402
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2002 9:34 pm
Location: TR Forums

Re: Bluetooth-To-Analog Adapter Frustration

Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:57 am

Usacomp2k3 wrote:
meerkt wrote:
1-2 AA batteries + electronics. Stick to the bottom of the keyboard.

I assume you're not serious.

No big deal. Just stick one of these under it.
Desktop: i7-4790K @4.8 GHz | 32 GB | EVGA Gefore 1060 | Windows 10 x64
Laptop: MacBook Pro 2017 2.9GHz | 16 GB | Radeon Pro 560
 
meerkt
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1438
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:55 am

Re: Bluetooth-To-Analog Adapter Frustration

Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:27 am

It's not the cleanest solution but I think doable while staying practical enough. The power draw of (unlit) keyboards is indeed a question, but it's not unthinkable that even a non-optimized in-keyboard circuit could last weeks or months.

(Random data for a random MCU, though without integrated USB features: ATtiny85 @ 1MHz, 5V = 1mA. In more efficient modes it can be 3 orders of magnitude better. Don't know if keyboards tend to use chips with hardware USB, or just bitbanging.)

It could be interesting, instead of chargeable AAs, to use a common cellphone battery.
Last edited by meerkt on Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 53483
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Bluetooth-To-Analog Adapter Frustration

Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:34 am

meerkt wrote:
It's not the cleanest solution but I think doable while staying practical enough. The power draw of (unlit) keyboards is indeed a question, but it's not unthinkable that even a non-optimized in-keyboard circuit could last weeks or months.

(Random data for a random MCU, though without integrated USB features: ATtiny85 @ 1MHz, 5V = 1mA. In more efficient modes it can be 3 orders of magnitude better.)

Provided you never use Num/Caps lock! Just the LEDs for those will likely draw comparable power to that MCU!

meerkt wrote:
It could be interesting, instead of chargeable AAs, to use a common cellphone battery.

The form factor and energy density would certainly be better suited, but you've probably just made your circuitry significantly more complicated if you want to support in-place charging.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
Prestige Worldwide
Gerbil Elite
Posts: 763
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:57 pm

Re: Bluetooth-To-Analog Adapter Frustration

Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:32 am

I suppose that you can add another adapter to the chain to make a true frankenadapter.

Your dual 3.5mm + a dual to single 3.5mm adapter to one of the "car themed" adapters.

Something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Headphone-Splitt ... way&sr=8-9

I use this device (similar to the one you posted) to listen to music and take calls with regular smartphone style earbuds (1more Triple driver with integrated microphone) while working out, as well as to plug in to 3.5mm input of my car. It works well for my use case.

https://www.amazon.com/Mpow-Bluetooth-R ... way&sr=8-7
8700k@5GHz, Custom Water Loop | ASRock Fatal1ty Gaming K6 | 16GB DDR4 3200 CL16
RTX 2080 | LG 27GL850 144Hz | Intel 660P 1TB| MX500 1TB | 2x2TB HDD | Win 10 Pro x64
X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro | Sennheiser HD555 | Seasonic SSR-850FX | Fractal Arc Midi R2
 
meerkt
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1438
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:55 am

Re: Bluetooth-To-Analog Adapter Frustration

Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:34 pm

just brew it! wrote:
Provided you never use Num/Caps lock! Just the LEDs for those will likely draw comparable power to that MCU!

I thought they'd be tamed down, but yeah, some data (if accurate) suggests 30mA on LEDs is possible.
Anyway, back to the thread's topic...
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 53483
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Bluetooth-To-Analog Adapter Frustration

Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:33 am

meerkt wrote:
just brew it! wrote:
Provided you never use Num/Caps lock! Just the LEDs for those will likely draw comparable power to that MCU!

I thought they'd be tamed down, but yeah, some data (if accurate) suggests 30mA on LEDs is possible.
Anyway, back to the thread's topic...

Yeah, 30 mA would be really, really bright. But something in the mid-single-digit mA (per LED) range wouldn't surprise me.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
meerkt
Graphmaster Gerbil
Posts: 1438
Joined: Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:55 am

Re: Bluetooth-To-Analog Adapter Frustration

Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:43 am

For all the ones on a keyboard together. Still seems more than needed, but it's wired ones so they may not pay attention.
 
just brew it!
Gold subscriber
Administrator
Posts: 53483
Joined: Tue Aug 20, 2002 10:51 pm
Location: Somewhere, having a beer

Re: Bluetooth-To-Analog Adapter Frustration

Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:51 am

meerkt wrote:
For all the ones on a keyboard together. Still seems more than needed, but it's wired ones so they may not pay attention.

On an illuminated keyboard, the vast majority of the total power being consumed is going to the LEDs. That's why there are so few illuminated wireless keyboards.
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
 
The Egg
Gold subscriber
Minister of Gerbil Affairs
Topic Author
Posts: 2925
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:46 pm

Re: Bluetooth-To-Analog Adapter Frustration

Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:46 am

Prestige Worldwide wrote:
I suppose that you can add another adapter to the chain to make a true frankenadapter.
Your dual 3.5mm + a dual to single 3.5mm adapter to one of the "car themed" adapters.
Something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Headphone-Splitt ... way&sr=8-9
I use this device (similar to the one you posted) to listen to music and take calls with regular smartphone style earbuds (1more Triple driver with integrated microphone) while working out, as well as to plug in to 3.5mm input of my car. It works well for my use case.
https://www.amazon.com/Mpow-Bluetooth-R ... way&sr=8-7

I have no problem with frankenadapters if they work. I had already looked at a few dual-to-single 3.5mm adapters, and while I would expect it to work (for something like iPhone earbuds), I don't know that it would really accomplish anything as far as bluetooth receivers are concerned. The one you linked appears to be the standard-issue type on Amazon, meaning it has it's own built-in mic, and analog for output only. My interpretation is that these type of adapters would not take a mic signal from a headset (using their own built-in mic instead), and have no method of analog input (for transmission to the headset as earpiece audio).

Interestingly, I did find an Asus USB Bluetooth adapter laying around at home. I imagine it would work in both directions. I also have a desktop workstation just a few feet away with appropriate analog connections to work as an intermediary between the two......

It's probably worth a shot (for the low low cost of nothing), but I have a feeling I'm going to end up in audio driver input/output hell.
 
Prestige Worldwide
Gerbil Elite
Posts: 763
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2009 10:57 pm

Re: Bluetooth-To-Analog Adapter Frustration

Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:34 pm

The Egg wrote:
Prestige Worldwide wrote:
I suppose that you can add another adapter to the chain to make a true frankenadapter.
Your dual 3.5mm + a dual to single 3.5mm adapter to one of the "car themed" adapters.
Something like this:
https://www.amazon.com/Headphone-Splitt ... way&sr=8-9
I use this device (similar to the one you posted) to listen to music and take calls with regular smartphone style earbuds (1more Triple driver with integrated microphone) while working out, as well as to plug in to 3.5mm input of my car. It works well for my use case.
https://www.amazon.com/Mpow-Bluetooth-R ... way&sr=8-7

I have no problem with frankenadapters if they work. I had already looked at a few dual-to-single 3.5mm adapters, and while I would expect it to work (for something like iPhone earbuds), I don't know that it would really accomplish anything as far as bluetooth receivers are concerned. The one you linked appears to be the standard-issue type on Amazon, meaning it has it's own built-in mic, and analog for output only. My interpretation is that these type of adapters would not take a mic signal from a headset (using their own built-in mic instead), and have no method of analog input (for transmission to the headset as earpiece audio).

Interestingly, I did find an Asus USB Bluetooth adapter laying around at home. I imagine it would work in both directions. I also have a desktop workstation just a few feet away with appropriate analog connections to work as an intermediary between the two......

It's probably worth a shot (for the low low cost of nothing), but I have a feeling I'm going to end up in audio driver input/output hell.



Come to think of it, I'm not 100% confident that it will use a mic from a 3-stripe 3.5mm connected device with microphone (standard mobile headset). I'll have to test and get back to you. I assumed so yesterday but it's very possible that I'm wrong.
8700k@5GHz, Custom Water Loop | ASRock Fatal1ty Gaming K6 | 16GB DDR4 3200 CL16
RTX 2080 | LG 27GL850 144Hz | Intel 660P 1TB| MX500 1TB | 2x2TB HDD | Win 10 Pro x64
X-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro | Sennheiser HD555 | Seasonic SSR-850FX | Fractal Arc Midi R2

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest
GZIP: On